Container Differences?

[Deimian 43]

skytribe

Containers with cutters mounted on the bottom of the container rather than on a flap. (Racer, Javelin, Vortex, Teardrop, Wings to name a few).

Just a quick note: It is not the same a cutter in the bottom of the container on a Javelin (for instance) than on a Teardrop. The reserve pin in the former is at the top, meaning that a cutter at the bottom of the tray that fails to cut the loop and pinches it instead won't interfere with the manual activation. The reserve pin of the Teardrop is against the back of the jumper, and a cutter in that position does interfere in case of failure. And I guess that this was the reason for the question.

[Southern_Man 0]

skytribe

I believe this to be incorrect and the teardrop has a TSO.
TSO C23D I believe. So it is legal for a US citizen to own and jump one in the states and for visiting jumpers.

Thanks for the correction, it appears I was looking at some incorrect information.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[skytribe 16]

That is correct - the racer and teardrop both have this situation because the pins are against the jumpers back. Whereas the Javelin/Vortex/Wings do not as the pin is away from the jumpers back.

That said, the cutter not severing the loop and locking the container is probably a similar risk as those containers that have the cutter on top of the pilot chute. (Vector, Infinity, Mirage, Icon)

There is a risk, however I don't believe it is significantly more or less than many of the other containers and the reliability of cutters is acceptable (not perfect).

[Doug_Davis 0]

In all actuality the only time I assume I will need an AAD, and the reason I jump with one, is in the event I am unconscious due to mid-air collision, spinning, or hard opening (neck injury).
So the chances of me having the AAD deploy, not cut the loop, and then my still being conscious in order to pull the pin instead are slim and none.
But every little bit helps. If there is a chance a top mounted cutter may not cut the loop, and instead result in a bag lock, then I would prefer a bottom mounted cutter...all things being equal.

Just trying to expand my knowledge of the sport and learn every little bit I can.

[Deimian 43]

Doug_Davis

In all actuality the only time I assume I will need an AAD, and the reason I jump with one, is in the event I am unconscious due to mid-air collision, spinning, or hard opening (neck injury).

Somebody correct me if I am wrong, but most of the AAD activations have been due to loss of altitude awareness, not due to being unconscious. All of them thought that they would never ever lose altitude awareness.

It is way more probable that you f*ck up dealing with a mal too long, or just enjoying your skydive, filming your buddies from below, etc, than that you get unconscious.

I am a newbie with around 100 jumps, so take my opinion with a pinch of salt, but my conclusion after reading a lot around here, watching a bunch of videos, and observation at the DZ, is that it is more likely that you (or me) will need an AAD due to lost of altitude awareness than anything else. In fact, I know 0 AAD activations due to unconsciousness (out of........ I don't know, 25? AAD activations that I know).

[Joellercoaster 6]

Have a trawl through the incidents forum... there have been two or three at least in the last year.

Not disagreeing with your overall impression - I think fuckups are by far the greater cause as well (and I have no idea why people are so ready to assume they won't fuck up, it's always "in case someone else takes me out") - but the other kind also exist.

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[Southern_Man 0]

Doug_Davis

So the chances of me having the AAD deploy, not cut the loop, and then my still being conscious in order to pull the pin instead are slim and none.
But every little bit helps. If there is a chance a top mounted cutter may not cut the loop, and instead result in a bag lock, then I would prefer a bottom mounted cutter...all things being equal.

Just trying to expand my knowledge of the sport and learn every little bit I can.

Statistically it is a lot more likely that you will have an AAD fire but your reserve will not fully deploy before impact.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[mark 102]

Southern_Man

***
So the chances of me having the AAD deploy, not cut the loop, and then my still being conscious in order to pull the pin instead are slim and none.
But every little bit helps. If there is a chance a top mounted cutter may not cut the loop, and instead result in a bag lock, then I would prefer a bottom mounted cutter...all things being equal.

Just trying to expand my knowledge of the sport and learn every little bit I can.

Statistically it is a lot more likely that you will have an AAD fire but your reserve will not fully deploy before impact.

Please explain.

Mark

[Doug_Davis 0]

Southern_Man

Statistically it is a lot more likely that you will have an AAD fire but your reserve will not fully deploy before impact.

Not for me. Being made aware of this problem, and having been adequately warned by my SL instructor of the slowness of opening of sport parachutes versus what I jumped in the military (as low as 500' AGL) I have ALWAYS had a break off altitude and hard deck in excess of what the SIM recommended. (I generally break off between 5-4.5 and pull at 4-3.5.)
I still jump with a student AAD even though Im off student status and have my A. And once I buy my own AAD and rig I will set the deployment altitude higher than the factory setting. Most likely 1,250.

[sralston 0]

You got a combat jump? Very cool.

Just my opinion but I love my Shadow Racer 2K3. They only come in black, however The Jump Shack will fit it to you. It is $1,500.

Blue Skies