*skydiving* insurance company rip off!

[Emma 0]

I've just been informed that a friend of mine who had a rather nasty
hang-up recently and lost all her skydiving gear in the African sea
has had a major problem recuperating her losses from her *specialist*
skydiving insurance company.
Harrison Beaumont have told her that her policy COVERS VIRTUALLY F**K
ALL OF HER SKYDIVING GEAR. That is, she is insured up to £500 for ALL
HER GEAR. This is ALL they are giving her back, despite what she had
been told on the phone when she took out the policy.
In light of this another friend of mine also then contacted them
today, as he was concerned about his policy too, and was told the same
thing. Now call me
old-fashioned, but these are specialist skydiving insurance
policies....and a typical rig is at least over £1000 total, let alone
alti, helmet, jumpsuit etc..
Anyway - advice is, please check your policy if you use this company
and if in doubt phone them to confirm - if possible get that
confirmation in writing. My bf has just phoned them only to be told
both his and my Worldwide cover policies (£117.50 each per annum!) are
good for a maximum of £500 for skydiving gear. Bloody useless. This is
a direct contradiction to what they told me when I took out the
policies, that is, they told me I could claim up to £500 per item, ie.
£500 for my main, £500 for the reserve, £500 for the container, etc.
So actually, if I spud in to the sea and lose all my kit, I can claim
a maximum of £500. To cover my kit too, I need ANOTHER policy! The
Worldwide policy only covers you for medical expenses..Oh, and
'Personal Belongings', which excludes skydiving gear. Duhhhhh.
I think this is bloody disgusting. Just spread the word to anyone you
know who has a policy.
Cheers,
Emma

[skreamer 1]

I was under the impression that the H&B policy was primarily for worldwide health insurance, not gear insurance. If Clare (camera flyer in question) bought her air tickets to Kenya with her visa card, she might be able to claim back on the free visa insurance.
£117 is pretty reasonable for world-wide multi-trip medical cover. I have never heard of skydivers having problems claiming back medical expenses from H&B. Expecting £117 to cover both your medical and gear insurance is asking a bit much. A rig with cypres, camera helmet and camera, plus all the other stuff (altis etc) can easily cost over £5000 - do you really expect a £117 policy to cover this? Buy a £5 000 motorbike and then see if you can get insurance for it for £117 for unlimited biking trips in Europe.
Sorry, Emma, but I don't think H&B are at fault.
Will
"Look before you jump, don't die until you're dead"

[gus 1]

Hi Emma,
Exactly which policy does she have? Is it this one? That's the one I have and it makes no mention of a £500 limit, do I need to go and check my policy documents? My annual premium is up at around £160, I will be less than happy if I were unable to claim more than £500 .
If you get any more details post them because I know there are quite a few people around with hb policies.
Gus
"Sex? Once every six seconds. Skydiving? Five times, every six seconds."

[Emma 0]

Gus - I think it was the multi-trip insurance.
The point is Will, they said you were covered for up to £500 per item (ie main = £500, container, = £500, reserve = £500, alti = £100) etc, to a max of £1,500, so you think that at least if your rig got stolen you could claim £1,500 for the three itmes that make it up.
I think it's bullshit anyway.

[Remster 24]

Hi gus and all..
sorry to hear about your friends bad deal Emma, but I'll side with Skreamer, unless what she had is in deed the equipment insurance as posted bu Gus...
When you buy insurance, make sure you understand what you buy.
HB does both travel medical and equipment equipment.
I found their equipment insurance a bit pricy. You can list expensive items in a house's content insuance. As long as you are clear in stating what it is and its value, most content insurance will cover loss of theaft of items when momenteraly out of the house (ie. a bicycle, or rig). of course, check with your insurance. We have our insurance with The AA and they old us it would be covered.
Remster
Muff 914

[Remster 24]

Emma, the multi trip is in deed their general helth insurance. It does included a few "non health" things such as loss of items. Its not a equipment insurance.
You freind should chech with her contents insurance if she has some.
Remster
Muff 914

[Emma 0]

I recommend checking your policy and ringing them up because the wording is (purposely?) ambiguous.
If you have Multitrip, in contradiction to what they may tell you verbally - your kit is covered for bugger all. Oh yes, and they reduce your personal accident cover for any accidents that occur while skydiving. Yeh, that makes sense.
You will basically need to take two separate policies, NOT, as they lead you to believe, one to cover all. They told me it was as good as indemnity insurance on my current kit and this is not the case.
The particluar lady in question has been royally f*cked if you ask me, so I suggest a whipround at Hinton this weekend.
Adios

[skreamer 1]

There is no point in trying to argue the nitty gritty (rig is 3 items not 1) AFTER the fact Emma. H&B do provide gear insurance (the link Gus posted).
Expecting that much gear cover from a £117 medical multitrip insurance policy is unrealistic and naive. I've also got a death and disability policy with H&B, but hopefully I won't be requiring THAT one anytime soon...
I do feel really sorry for Clare Emma (and am glad she came through her ordeal OK), but blaming H&B for this isn't really fair. What do you expect for £117??? No point in blaming an insurance company if YOU didn't bother reading the fine print.
Will
PS notice how I'm DOING the ANNOYING capitals thing again?
"Look before you jump, don't die until you're dead"

[skreamer 1]

Quote

The particluar lady in question has been royally f*cked if you ask me, so I suggest a whipround at Hinton this weekend.

I think thats a good idea and I'll chip in and help out, but please drop the slagging off H&B thing. I've used them over a year now. Never had to claim, but I did appreciate that my £117 annual multitrip cover was primarily for health cover. Thats why I posted a while back asking about gear insurance - I knew I wasn't covered by my H&B policy.
Will
"Look before you jump, don't die until you're dead"

[Emma 0]

Whatever - all I am saying is that when I asked them, they said that individual items were covered up to £500 (main, reserve, container), and now it transpires that they will not view each individual article as separate.
I've used them for almost 2 years, incidentally. They invited me to 'upgrade' to the Multi-trip from equipment insurance so I do have a vague idea of how insurance works. And citing the cost seems a little silly to me, when I can insure my whole house for about the same amount. Is it unreasonable to think that they could cover my kit (indemnity, not new-for-old - therefore totalling about £2,500) for that amount?

Quote

Never had to claim, but I did appreciate that my £117 annual multitrip cover was primarily for health cover.

Good for you. 'Primarily' is right. It's the kit cover (indemnity - not new for old) that's in question, obviously. I would imagine that it IS when you have to claim, like this person did, that you discover any 'misunderstandings'.
I am just saying check your policy and make sure there isn't room for misunderstanding. It's not just *me* who feels they were led to believe each item was covered separately. We are talking a shortfall of £1,000 so I think it is relevant.

[skreamer 1]

Stuff like insurance and mortgages is too complicated for girls to understand, so why don't you just leave it to us blokes, mmmkay?

"Look before you jump, don't die until you're dead"

[Emma 0]

'Us blokes'? Stretches the definition somewhat, I reckon. Remember, in order to qualify as male, you need a penis.
Oh god, now look what you went and made me do. Lock the goddam thread before it goes crrrrrrazy!

[cpoxon 0]

> they said that individual items were covered up to £500 (main, reserve, container)
Why would they? I'm struggling to think of an analogy. The closest I can think of would be a home-built Personal Computer. You could break it down into £250 for the hard disk, £250 for the CPU, £250 for the motherboard, £250 for the memory, £250 for the graphics card etc. but because it gets assembled into one unit it counts as a single item?
Perhaps they would consider them individual when a main is cutaway and damaged?
Either way, you are right that there has been some ambiguity. Would have been prudent to get confirmation in writing of any special area that required clarifcation.
According to http://www.hbinsurance.co.uk/policies/multitrip_summaryofcover.html the single item limit appears to be £250 for personal effects so £500 is double what they could have paid?
> I can insure my whole house for about the same amount. Is it unreasonable to think that they could cover my kit (indemnity, not new-for-old - therefore totalling about £2,500) for that amount?
The majority of the policy is insurance for upto £5M for medical and SAR and £1M for personal liability, as well as the smaller allowances. Therefore (I'm assuming) it is a different league to the value of your home and contents insurance and doesn't really compare. The priority of the policy is for medical purposes and the expense of personal effects. We have special personal effects in the form of our gear in value and in use so they require special consideration.
My rigs are named and valued items on my home contents insurance.

[cpoxon 0]

> Oh yes, and they reduce your personal accident cover for any accidents that occur while skydiving. Yeh, that makes sense.
(Playing Devil's Advocate) Why not? I am insured with H&B because they are one of the only companies who still pay out (albeit reduced) for Personal Accident in the event that it arises from ANY parachuting activity.
When you are putting yourself at personal risk, you are paying for the medical treatment, is it reasonable to expect to be compensated for hurting yourself? Again specialist needs require specialist insurance.

[Emma 0]

Quote

Why would they?

The point I am struggling with is that they told me verbally that they would look at the items this way. Why would they? Because they were trying to sell me a more expensive policy than the HB equipment policy I already had?

Quote

Perhaps they would consider them individual when a main is cutaway and damaged?

No doubt.

Quote

the single item limit appears to be £250 for personal effects so £500 is double what they could have paid?

I don't think you're looking at the same policy. My certificate says:
'(iii)£500 in respect of any one article, pair or set of articles of Activity Equipment.'
The ambiguity lies in defining a 'set' of articles. Anyway, the moral is, don't just have a chat with your insurer on the phone and assume what's discussed will be reflected in your insurance document. I guess insurance salespeople are only interpreting the documents themselves.

Quote

The priority of the policy is for medical purposes and the expense of personal effects. We have special personal effects in the form of our gear in value and in use so they require special consideration.

That's exactly it. Read the fine print and don't assume a specialist skydiving policy will view your equipment as 'personal effects'.

[ScottishJohn 25]

So we won't be seeing you at the DZ this weekend (not in one piece anyway)
=================================
I can smell your brains !
=================================

[Newbie 0]

here is something to look at.....
http://www.hbinsurance.co.uk/policies/parachutists.html

[Emma 0]

Just found out my contents insurance won't cover parachutes. Quite a funny moment:
'Oh yes Madam, as long as the item is under the value of £2,000 it's covered. We cover ANYTHING under that value inside or outside the home'...
'Well yes, I CAN check, but believe me, they do cover anything....It's a WHAT? Oh er...right...better just check that then...'
'Yes, it's insured while it's in the home...No, I suppose you DON'T use it in the home all that much. Sorry!'...
Buggeration.

[SpinDoctor 0]

LLoyds by any chance?
I had the same conversation.... they said go to ... "a specialist insurers.... your parachuting club will have all the details"
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! bbbwwwwaaaahhhhhh!!!!

[Emma 0]

LMAO! Yep, Lloyds. Bless them. He told me the same thing. Toss. The funny thing is, they've insured two video cameras and a stills camera which will be used for skydiving, no problem. And I DID say to them, 'Is it covered for loss ANYWHERE? Doing ANYTHING?' And they said it was..so.....

[SpinDoctor 0]

i have athe lloyds - whats the document thing called where it has all the details,,,,, well i have that - so i'll bring it to the DZ at the weekend and we can all laff at it heartily!

[skreamer 1]

Look, Craig is right and you are wrong, mmmkay? (Craig, she might be big but I reckon together we can kick the Pie Queen's ass!!!)

"Look before you jump, don't die until you're dead"

[Emma 0]

My arse is far too big to be kicked by a worm like you. Dream on, Spotting Champ.

[cpoxon 0]

> Because they were trying to sell me a more expensive policy than the HB equipment policy I already had?
Hmm, I see. Forgot about the changing policies aspect. I'm surprised they didn't try to sell you (or anyone) both! HB's airsports equipment insurance is 5% for indemnity (6% for new for old) which equates to £75 (for the 3 items at £500 each). Is it reasonable to expect that level of cover with all of the medical coverage for not a lot more. Plus, you would be required to break down each item for the equipment insurance (since each item has a serial number).
>I don't think you're looking at the same policy. My certificate says:
'(iii)£500 in respect of any one article, pair or set of articles of Activity Equipment.'
Yes, that's the Activity Travel insurance for short term periods:
> Read the fine print and don't assume a specialist skydiving policy will view your equipment as 'personal effects'.
Is it a specialist skydiving policy? It is a specialiast travel insurance policy which is loaded depending on activity due to the risk and medical treatment that may be requried.

[Emma 0]

I dunno .... Maybe Will's right. I am just a girl. A girl with a big arse. I'll ask a bloke to help next time. ;)
(And Will, stop kissing up to Poxon. Your obsequience is not becoming. Just cos he's on the Council it won't help you wriggle out of your next grounding. He heh)