Cadmium VS SS

[bbrodes 0]

IS the stainless hardware on a wings container really worth the extra 200? I'm trying to buy a new complete system and keep it as close to 7000 as possible...

[Awdpsi 0]

I just order my new odyssey! Congrats. From what I've been told SS will not rust Cadmium will. So if you ever have a chance of getting moisture (swoop a pond, shitty landing) it may be worth it. The way I looked at it was I'm planning on jumping this rig for at least 5+ years so for the little bit extra it was worth it to me.

Thats just my 2cents take it for what it is worth.....not much

Belt and Suspenders

[mattjw916 2]

not really, if you're cost-conscious skip it

looks cool, won't rust/tarnish, that's about it...

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[tetra316 0]

I ordered my Infinity in 2003 (I think) with cadmium. Still looks and works great. Just don't let it sit in any moisture - but that should be said for any gear. As long as you aren't constantly jumping on the beach it'll be fine. Plus it's not as slippery as SS which I've seen some complain about in their leg straps. For me the extra $$ is not worth it.

[councilman24 36]

Unless you plan on jumping in salt water its merely a cool factory.

The original hardware is the cadmium plated, which does inhibit corrosion but can be worn off. When the stainless hardware was first tried it worked to well. The cadmium plating dulled the teeth of the hardware. The stainless, unplated teeth were too sharp and grabbed too well resulting in high loads. Stainless had to be redesigned, not made identical to cadmium plated, in order to work well. Working well means slipping a little.

We've been having an industry issue with webbing slipping through hardware. It's both a webbing issue and a hardware issue. Webbing has been changing, within the specs, to thinner in general than it used to be. Spec IIRC for harness type webbing is 0.080 to 0.120 inches. BIG difference and stuff is was coming out at the lower end more than in the past because of changes in processing. Using various materials and finishes on hardware have varied it's performance from the original military design (cadmium plated) and performance specifications that date back decades.

Strong uses nickel instead of stainless.

If you have to be the coolest kid on the block get stainless. If you want a functional rig that may have less issues with webbing slipping get cadmium. Don't worry about corrosion of cadmium plated hardware. Won't happen in your lifetime unless you really abuse it.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[sundevil777 93]

I think it is amazing that the corrosion resistant steel is more expensive, given the cadmium being toxic. Cadmium fasteners used in some industries are much more expensive with Cad plating.

So, I think the corrosion resistant is worth the cost, even though it seems like it shouldn't cost more. The conventional/ferrous steel - cad plated versions do sometimes experience wear of the plating, and rusting can develop, even when they haven't been exposed to direct water contact. I remember some threads where premature wear of the harness has occurred. Perhaps those instances were anomalies.

I would like to know from an insider why stainless would be so much more expensive. I realize the plating cost is only a part of the total picture for the cost of a component, but my understanding in the aircraft industry was that there was a high "environmental" cost built in to cad plating, due to the difficulty of ensuring environmental risks were handled correctly.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[bbrodes 0]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Very helpful

[PhreeZone 15]

I put 1800 jumps on my container and had to replace all the hardware since despite never jumping in or near water, never having a beach landing and taking really great care of the rig the plating managed to flake off and it allowed the RW8 ring to develop rust where it was rubbing against the webbing. The rust eventually started to show signs that it was being absorbed into the tape so we ended up doing a reharness and put stainless on instead.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[RiggerLee 61]

This is my understanding. Stainless requires a different furnace. You need an electric furnace rather then a coal fired one to do it right. One of the reasons stainless showed up in European rigs so much earlier is that all of the foundries got bombed in WW II and were rebuilt with modern technology. Here in the US following WW II the unions refused to allow the investment in modernization of the equipment which resulted in most of the work eventually being moved over seas. There are now very few foundries in the US and very few truly modern electric versions that can produce good stainless.

This is how the story was told to me. Take it for what it is worth.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[riggerrob 558]

I heard that European mills switched to stainless steel because of the high cost of disposing of toxic waste remaining after the cadmium-plating process.

[riggerrob 558]

"... Plus it's not as slippery as SS which I've seen some complain about in their leg straps. For me the extra $$ is not worth it."

.......................................................................................

Also remember that most of the old-school/Military Specification/PIA Spec cadmium-plated hardware was originally designed for the cotton harness webbing used back during World War 2.
Half of the slippage problems have been caused by modern harnesses being built of thinner, slipperier webbing (resin-coated Type 7 or Type 8).
Aerodyne's solution was to tell riggers to sew an extra layer of Type 12 webbing (onto leg straps) to bulk-out the buckles.

[pchapman 261]

bbrodes

IS the stainless hardware on a wings container really worth the extra 200?

I was just curious about the actual costs to upgrade to stainless from cad plated, so looked at what it would be for a whole rig - 2 sets of 3-rings, leg hardware, and something suitable for hip rings, and 1 set for chest hardware. I just used standard buying in bulk prices in ParaGear (20+ items etc), which a skydiving company should be able to beat. However the catalogue doesn't show some of the more specialized hardware that some manufacturers use (e.g. for nicer hip rings), that may cost more.

The total difference between stainless and cad plated came out to something like $102.

So in a strict technical sense, a $200 price for an upgrade is not worth it. On the other hand, its not like you can install it all yourself, and the long term value to you may be well worth the extra profit you're giving the company.

[mjosparky 3]

In almost 40 years around the sport I can count on one hand the rigs I have seen with a derogation problem with the hardware. SS is more expensive, slips more and is more brittle.
But it does look cool. Stick with the Cadmium, put the $200 toward jumping.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[RiggerLee 61]

There is probable some truth to that. We're very lucky to be able to get cad plating done at all. I once heard that the military requirements for it were the only thing standing in the way of it being out lawed in this country. But again even if we were to try to drop cad plating I don't think we would have the capacity to meet the demand in stainless.

It's good to live here in the US where military expediency still trumps radical left wing eco obsessed fascist bent on the destruction of the economy.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[riggerrob 558]

I have never seen any parachute hardware - jumped in North America - that was corroded so badly that it had lost structural strength. The biggest problem was cadmium or chromium-plated hardware that the plating had rubbed/cracked off and the under-lying steel was rusted so badly that it was starting to fray the webbing.
The fastest corrosion seems to occur in the Amazon basin of Brazil. All the iron in the acidic soil can ruin the finish on cadmium-plated steel in two or three years. I have had to re-harness a pair of Telesis student rigs and a pair of Softie pilot rigs because there was no corrosion-protection remaining after three years. So I only recommend stainless steel hardware to Brazilian customers. For every-one else, SS is more of a fashion statement.

[mjosparky 3]

riggerrob

I have never seen any parachute hardware - jumped in North America - that was corroded so badly that it had lost structural strength. The biggest problem was cadmium or chromium-plated hardware that the plating had rubbed/cracked off and the under-lying steel was rusted so badly that it was starting to fray the webbing.
The fastest corrosion seems to occur in the Amazon basin of Brazil. All the iron in the acidic soil can ruin the finish on cadmium-plated steel in two or three years. I have had to re-harness a pair of Telesis student rigs and a pair of Softie pilot rigs because there was no corrosion-protection remaining after three years. So I only recommend stainless steel hardware to Brazilian customers. For every-one else, SS is more of a fashion statement.

Thanks Rob. I will keep that in mind the next time I work a batch of Brazilian rigs.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[cjdskydiver 4]

Get a Voodoo Curv instead...it only comes with stainless steel h/w, along with Type-12 webbing sewn onto the Type-7 leg straps to eliminate the slippage problem.