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SoCalJumper

Closing UPT Vector3 with clocked pilot chute displayed

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Using different packers at different DZ's I am seeing a few different methods used. From the top and from the bottom, with the bottom method at times the kill line for the pilot chute is not displayed. The best method I've found so far displays that the pilot chute is cocked but it likes to turns the pin sideways.

Any solutions? other than continue to pack it this way?

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I come from a military background and currently work for the military as a parachute rigger, but am familiar with a wide variety of sport rigs.

I usually practice this mantra…what does the manual say?

Try some of these Vector III packing tips pulled from UPTs site:

http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/PDF/Support/Rigging/main%20packing%20tips.pdf

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I think you may be looking for a solution without a problem. There's nothing wrong with the pin being slightly turned. You could flip the pin over so it pulls the bridle on top of it but why? When I first learned to pack, I had a rigger tell me to pull the bridle to the side and tuck it under the side edge of the side flap, rather than the bottom. This turned the pin completely sideways. I don't do that and I'm not sure the reasoning but I have packed that way and it didn't matter. With a curved pin like modern rigs have, I don't believe the orientation of the pin matters and definitely not if it's just tilted slightly.

That picture is of a rig that (from what you can see) looks closed well and allows pin checks without people touching your bridle to check it.
www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

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see following posts for folks correcting me.:$ And my response that one must still be careful to not pack a PC in tow.

The way displayed in your photo is NOT right. There is velcro on the bridle that should mate with the velcro on the top main flap (if original PC, if not it should be added at the CORRECT position). Follow the method on the short pdf above and in the manual. When routed from above and the velcro is mated correctly it assures that the pin is loaded before the bridle that continues into the bag. The way you have it if the bridle below the pin is packed tightly into the container it could be loaded first instead of the pin and cause a PC in tow. The velcro should be mated to also ensure there is enough slack in the bridle to load and pull the pin before the rest of the bridle is loaded.

ignore this rant. See posts below

The way you have it may work for 100's of jumps. But there is a reason it's supposed to be the other way. Any packer who packs it as in your photograph is doing it wrong and should be handed the manual. While other methods MAY work some of the time, or even all of the time, it's not their place to hand you something that is not done according to the manual. If I was a packer and you asked me to pack it that way I'd say find someone else.

There ARE rigs where the method in the photo is the method in the manual. But Vector is not one of them. One method does not apply to all rigs.:o

You should set down with your rig, the manual, and if needed an experienced rigger to explain these things and for you to understand your own rig. I say an experienced rigger because these nuances of mains, bridles and things are not necessarily something that a new senior rigger would learn at a short course. Those of us that were around for the bad old days of twisted belly bands, misrouted bridles, straight pins, bungee closing loops and all sorts of things that caused PC's in tow know these things are important. I was just discussing last night with a RW world champion from 1975 how newbies don't know there gear and how a packer might not know how to pack his pull-out PC. But I very surprised that someone working as a packer doesn't know how to pack a Vector.[:/] Or thinks he/she knows better.>:(

BTW you can turn the bridle over so that the window is visible and still follow the manual.
I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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councilman24

There ARE rigs where the method in the photo is the method in the manual. But Vector is not one of them. One method does not apply to all rigs.:o



Didn't UPT release a bulletin saying you could also close the rig the way it is shown in the photo?

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Okay, I freely admit I didn't know they added that.:$:$ And I'll leave my original post in place to show my lack of knowledge of this change.:)

BUT, the reason for doing it the original way remains. IF you know enough to not to pack the bridle wrong under the flaps this works. But it bypasses the velcro on the top flap that was supposed to be the guarantee that you had enough slack in the bridle past the pin. And to me the added alternative isn't explained well enough. It assumes that the user knows what not to do if using this method while the original method is described in detail. I have seen people pack similar to the alternative method but in a way that could tow the PC. Of course the original method can also tow if the velcro on the bridle is ignored. I recently found out a long time jumper and Vector owner didn't know why that velcro was there.

To someone that has to ask about it, I'd still recommend the original method.

Now time to slink back to bed with the flu.:|

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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There is a UPT packing video somewhere where the gentleman demonstrating the closing method used the bottom routing. He said, I seem to recall, that UPT no longer really used the top routing. Or words to that effect.

I see the bottom routing as having two advantages - a much lower risk of the pin piercing the bridle, and you don't need to leave the bridle slack above the pin. Quite a few people do not know about the reason for the velcro patch.

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But I've seen someone come out the left side in a similar configuration (not Vector) that could tow if loaded first. I also saw someone do something weird with the bridle between the pin and the PC. IIRC they didn't know the velcro was there and were burying the bridle under the flap.

The issue with the pin piercing the bridle is a real one. I've been trying to duplicate it on the ground. What I think is happening, pure speculation, is that the PC is pulling the bridle OVER the pin, not that the pin is being pushed through the bridle. Some rigs have more slack in the pin attachment tape than others and could allow the bridle to be pulled across the pin before loading the pin. I've tried using an FXC to pull the bridle fast enough to mimic the speed that the bridle is pulled in freefall by the PC but haven't had any luck in piercing the bridle.


The Vector III pin protector lends itself to the bottom method more than the older pin protector.

But in my pessimistic, cynical mind I still worry that newer folks don't know all the bad things that can happen that us old farts learned about around the campfire, and in the air.:o And that includes why the velcro is on the bridle in the first place.:)

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

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routing the bridle like that but OVER the flap will cause a pc in tow. I did it as a student and promptly felt stupid. The reason I said it was ok that way is because it is an approved method from upt. I was focused more on the question about fixing the pin being crooked which isn't a concern. I don't know that you could pack the bridle tight enough under the bottom flap when packing in that way to cause a pc in tow. Maybe if you twisted the bridle so it hangs up on itself? Even then you would probably have to work at it. I don't pack either my wings or vector that way but only because I do it the same way on both and ever since packing myself a pc in tow I am very careful about it and like to be consistent. I pack over and under the flap and make sure I have slack but I have considered changing to going under and pinning from the bottom...just haven't had a good enough reason to since I pack the window away from the pin and it would be pretty hard to trap the pin in the window that way.
www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

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mcordell

routing the bridle like that but OVER the flap will cause a pc in tow. I did it as a student and promptly felt stupid. The reason I said it was ok that way is because it is an approved method from upt.



Did you leave any SLACK in the bridle, above the pin? If yes, then how many inches?

The method that you are talking about was used on millions of jumps over the last 20 years on Vectors 3's with no issues (until pierced bridles during the last few years).

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skydiverek

***routing the bridle like that but OVER the flap will cause a pc in tow. I did it as a student and promptly felt stupid. The reason I said it was ok that way is because it is an approved method from upt.



Did you leave any SLACK in the bridle, above the pin? If yes, then how many inches?

The method that you are talking about was used on millions of jumps over the last 20 years on Vectors 3's with no issues (until pierced bridles during the last few years).

I think you misunderstood...I routed it over the right flap, to the pin, back over the right flap, out the bottom to the spandex. That will cause a pc in tow regardless of slack and has never been used. I currently route it from the top of the flap, to the pin, under the bottom of the flap to the spandex. In that case you need the slack and I do make sure it's there
www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

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skydiverek

***routing the bridle like that but OVER the flap will cause a pc in tow. I did it as a student and promptly felt stupid. The reason I said it was ok that way is because it is an approved method from upt.



Did you leave any SLACK in the bridle, above the pin? If yes, then how many inches?

The method that you are talking about was used on millions of jumps over the last 20 years on Vectors 3's with no issues (until pierced bridles during the last few years).

There were millions of jumps made on rigs using the “alternate method” before some decided that it should change.

Sparky
My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

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In case I haven't clarified it, what I did was pack mine too look exactly like an upside down version of the pic in the thread. Instead of both coming out and returning to the bottom of the flap, it came out the top and returned to the top. The reason I can say this has never been used as a packing method is because it will always cause a pc in tow. The bridle loads the bottom of the flap rather than the pin because the remaining bridle runs under the flap, back over the flap to the pin...and so on....maybe I wasn't clear. I should have closed one that way and taken a picture but I'm not sure I could allow myself to do it even for demo reasons.
www.facebook.com/FlintHillsRigging

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