Wings Reserve Boost vs. Skyhook

[wicodefly 0]

Can anyone give me any feedback on whether the two systems really work similarly? Given the same circumstances, will Wings' reserve boost have a fully inflated canopy above your head in about the same feet as Skyhook?


Does Skyhook work the same on a Javelin vs. a UPT container?

Any real world (even anecdotal) experience with his?

I guess, at the end of the day what would you trust the most? I'm trying to choose a new container.

Thanks in advance.

Chance favors the prepared mind.

[wicodefly 0]

BTW, I've searched all over, read all the reviews, watched the videos and have not really found good answers to these questions.

Chance favors the prepared mind.

[skytribe 16]

The skyhook, reserve boost are MARD systems (Main Assist Reserve Deployment) systems.

It depends upon the scenario as to whether the Main or the reserve pilot chute will extract the reserve.

As to the skyhook on the javelin, UPT or aerodyne containers. These are the same technology licensed by UPT. The configuration may be slightly different in the actual containers.

Wings reserve boost does a similar job just implemented differently. All MARD systems will deploy reserve's quicker but I would say an RSL is sufficient. I'm not depending upon the additional few feet that a MARD system provides.

[wicodefly 0]

Thanks for the reply. I know there isn't a consensus but if you (any experienced people) had to chose between the three implementations with price not a big factor which would you want to have in a worst case scenario?

Chance favors the prepared mind.

[riggerrob 558]

There are basically 2 types of Main-Assisted-Reserve-Deployment: hook and pin.

Pin-type MARDS were first seen on the Sorcer BASE container, circa 1990. Basic (France), Wings (Boost), Strong (Air Anchor), etc. have gradually been re-introduced to the skydiving business.

Circa 2000, Relative Workshop introduced their Skyhook MARD. Over the last decade, RWS smoothed out most of the early hassles with Skyhooks installed in their Sigma Tandem, Vectors, etc..
RWS also licensed Skyhooks to: Icon (South Africa and USA), Javelin (USA), Next (Germany), etc. Now RWS has more than a decade, and umpteen thousand deployments on Skyhooks ... more than pin-type MARDS.

Both systems vastly reduce the distance from cutaway to line-stretch on the reserve canopy. It is too early to tell which system is more reliable??????

[Deyan 31]

riggerrob

RWS also licensed Skyhooks to: Next (Germany)

Hi Rob,

Are you sure about that one?

Quote

Now RWS has more than a decade, and umpteen thousand deployments on Skyhooks ... more than pin-type MARDS.

....and they are still working to get it right.

"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen

[mattjw916 2]

meh, I wouldn't choose a rig solely based on the type or availability of a skyhook...

there are other design features that are higher up on my priority list

most low cutaway related fatalities could largely have been prevented by either just not going low to begin with or simply having a RSL installed (and actually attached to a riser)

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[skytribe 16]

Quote

I wouldn't choose a rig solely based on the type or availability of a skyhook...

I'm of the same opinion. If you want a rig which has a MARD system then I'd get it but the benefit over a RSL is not enough to make me choose a rig because it has/has not got a MARD system.

[riggerrob 558]

skytribe

Quote

I wouldn't choose a rig solely based on the type or availability of a skyhook...

I'm of the same opinion. If you want a rig which has a MARD system then I'd get it but the benefit over a RSL is not enough to make me choose a rig because it has/has not got a MARD system.

......................................................................................

Agreed!
If you are so low that the difference between a MARD and a simple RSL makes the difference between life-and-death ... you have made a LOT of mistakes on your way to the scene of the accident.
Start by paying more attention to altitude: wrist-mounted visual altimeters, chest-mounted visual altimeters, mudflap-mounted altimeters, goggle-mounted flashing lights, multiple beepers in your helmet, automatic-activation-devices hidden in your reserve container, AADs strapped to the outside of your main container, main static-lines, etc.

[wicodefly 0]

skytribe

Quote

I wouldn't choose a rig solely based on the type or availability of a skyhook...

I'm of the same opinion. If you want a rig which has a MARD system then I'd get it but the benefit over a RSL is not enough to make me choose a rig because it has/has not got a MARD system.

Fair enough. It sounds like there isn't a clear-cut answer to that.

I am basically pretty much set on a Wings but for a couple of reasons am second guessing myself and thinking maybe a Javelin instead and a UPT in the long term (and keep the other one as a backup). I have a Mirage G4 at the moment, but it wasn't custom made for me and while it's a fine rig I've been more comfortable on the Wings I've jumped.

If there were any really strong pros/cons I'd love to hear them. If not Wings it is.

Thanks again for your answers. Greatly appreciated.

Chance favors the prepared mind.

[lyosha 46]

As far as I can tell:

a) Way more skyhooks out there, meaning the guy that packs your chute will probably have seen a few already over the past ~10 years. Basically better odds that whoever packs your reserve will pack the MARD correctly.
b) It may take more force to unhook the skyhook in case you have to go straight for silver. When I asked the "Skyhook vs. Reserve Boost" question on here, a rigger claimed to have measured the force to do so, and for Skyhook it was >20 lbs. For reserve boost it was 2 lbs. I read that as less pilot chute hesitation and better reserve pilot chute deployment. I can't vouch for the credibility of this having never tested any of it, but you can find my thread from a few months ago and read for yourself.

[dpreguy 14]

"....unhook the Skyhook"? What does that mean?

[lyosha 46]

dpreguy

"....unhook the Skyhook"? What does that mean?

Detach MARD connection to reserve bridle. i.e. if you go straight for silver, or get a pilot chute in tow.

[lyosha 46]

Here's the post:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4569490#4569490

[wicodefly 0]

Thanks again. I'll review that thread.

Still up in the air on Wings or Javelin. All those threads seem to be very old.

Chance favors the prepared mind.

[stratostar 5]

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Still up in the air on Wings

Just me personally, when they first came on the market I was not sold on it for mostly rigging peeves and I was not that fond of design, all mostly person rigging and taste. Too each there own. A lot of people liked them and local was pushing them. Then I had one total on the freebag stows in the loft, long story but it was swung around the loft by a handful of riggers all scratching their heads.

Then this video came out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=vaYQ6iP8zlg there is another video of the same design towing a RPC as well, out there. So how do you feel about hand deploying your reserve? (should on the game plan anyway)

I really like my old school Jav. not real fond of most newer designs features, I think some designs cause problems when you least need it.... as the old saying goes, Caveat emptor.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[mattjw916 2]

Javelin Odyssey... seriously there's no debate between those two... just don't over-stuff it...

I prefer Mirages but if I wanted a rig with a Skyhook, a cozy harness, lots of color choices, and a delivery time shorter than the age of the universe, the Javelin wins...

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[wicodefly 0]

mattjw916

Javelin Odyssey... seriously there's no debate between those two... just don't over-stuff it...

I prefer Mirages but if I wanted a rig with a Skyhook, a cozy harness, lots of color choices, and a delivery time shorter than the age of the universe, the Javelin wins...

Really, that large of a difference? Is it just build quality or what?

I see the pin protection and possibly reserve protection look better on the Javelin (to my untrained eye) and that the actual Skyhook name MARD is available. Other than that don't see other differences.

Chance favors the prepared mind.

[mjosparky 3]

lyosha

***"....unhook the Skyhook"? What does that mean?

Detach MARD connection to reserve bridle. i.e. if you go straight for silver, or get a pilot chute in tow.

Go on to the manufactures sites and download the manuals. Spend some time reading through them. It sounds like you have a little bit of knowledge gathered from different places. You need to understand how the complete system works. Any MARD system is tasked with doing anyone of several things depending on the situation.

MARD system adds another layer of complexity to rigs that are already have whistles and bells hanging all over. If you ever find yourself in a position where you need an AAD or a MARD you have already made several mistakes.

Do some research, learn your gear.

Sparky

My idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals

[skydiverek 54]

riggerrob

Circa 2000, Relative Workshop introduced their Skyhook MARD. Over the last decade, RWS smoothed out most of the early hassles with Skyhooks installed in their Sigma Tandem, Vectors, etc..
RWS also licensed Skyhooks to: Icon (South Africa and USA), Javelin (USA), Next (Germany), etc.?

Not sure about the NEXT, but UPT did license Skyhook to Czech 'Mars' company.

[Joellercoaster 6]

wicodefly

Really, that large of a difference? Is it just build quality or what?

No. And yes, kinda.

Javs look sexier in smaller sizes, and they are definitely more "deluxe" in terms of shiny materials and whatnot. Nobody ever got fired for buying Sun Path
But IMO they are ugly* as they get bigger. I also like the upward-facing main pin cover on the Wings. Less a fan of the reserve riser covers, but I haven't seen a new one recently so they may be different now. Don't get the cordura BOC option (if it's still offered), it's too easy for an unaware packer to pack you a total.

If you like the look and feel of Wings on your back, get one. They're fine.

*ugliness is relative. One of my containers is a Vector M-series, which is utterly brilliant but they won't be winning any beauty pageants either

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[Ron 7]

I would not buy a container just because is has a MARD system.

As for brand.... Everyone has opinions. I personally have jumped most of the major brands and found them all to be fine.

My best suggestion is to find what is popular in your area. The riggers in your area will know them best, spare parts will be easier to get, and prices should be lower.

"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334

[piisfish 135]

Joellercoaster

Don't get the cordura BOC option (if it's still offered), it's too easy for an unaware packer to pack you a total.

??? How that ??? I would say to go with the cordurA BOC because I find it the best BOC I had ever seen.
Owned 4 rigs, packed a lot more, repaired several different too

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[Joellercoaster 6]

Strange, but true.

You need to pack the pilot chute with the fabric (and bridle) distributed properly, since because the pouch has less give, it's possible for the PC to bunch up at the mouth and refuse to extract.

I have seen it happen to two different people with cordura Wings BOC pouches, both resulting in reserve rides.

This is no slight on the container or even the cordura BOC, which is a fine idea if you only ever pack for yourself (or only use packers who know what they are doing) - but they are less tolerant of packing by the unaware than spandex!

--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

[skytribe 16]

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Then I had one total on the freebag stows in the loft, long story but it was swung around the loft by a handful of riggers all scratching their heads

I'd be curious what was going on with the stow as the design is fairly similar to most freebag's - safety stow on the front and a Velcro closed pocket on the back to stow the lines.

Sure the freebag has a split design but is not radically different from other designs. Care to elaborate on the issue.