SmokinJoeKS 0 #1 November 7, 2013 Just made some jumps after a 14-year vacation, and decided to get back in the sport. Problem is, I'm now 54 years old and have the usual disc degeneration in my neck and lower back, nothing ruptured but some nerves are getting irritated pretty easily. What canopies are the softest opening? I have heard PD Pulse, PD Spectre, and Aerodyne Pilot. Any recommendations/testimonials are appreciated. I weigh 185 and was planning on a 190 square foot canopy. Live in Colorado, so landings will be in thinner air. Joe C-16318 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wasatchrider 0 #2 November 7, 2013 I have jumped the pilot a bunch I know that opens softBASE 1519 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffCa 0 #3 November 7, 2013 This was a big concern for me, even though I'm younger than you and in good health. My Pilot with Dacron lines has opened really softly for me, but I've only jumped it about 20 times so far. I don't believe PD will put Dacron on a Pulse, which if I remember correctly, was why I eliminated it from the list. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
grue 1 #4 November 7, 2013 SmokinJoeKS Just made some jumps after a 14-year vacation, and decided to get back in the sport. Problem is, I'm now 54 years old and have the usual disc degeneration in my neck and lower back, nothing ruptured but some nerves are getting irritated pretty easily. What canopies are the softest opening? I have heard PD Pulse, PD Spectre, and Aerodyne Pilot. Any recommendations/testimonials are appreciated. I weigh 185 and was planning on a 190 square foot canopy. Live in Colorado, so landings will be in thinner air. Joe C-16318 Safire 2, Fusion, Pilot in that order. Hell, by the time spring rolls around and you're ready to start jumping, I might even be selling my Fusion 190 cavete terrae. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChuckMartin 0 #5 November 7, 2013 A few weeks ago I let one of my buddies used my rig to try out the canopy and I used his. He has a 190 Pulse in it and it opened like a dream and on heading every time. I also have jumped a Spectra and did not like that much, I do have to admit it was a 230 when I was back on AFF that that might have something to do with it. I have owned a Pilot and loved it. If you really care about the opening I would say a Pulse but the Pilot was a little more fun after its open. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mattjw916 2 #6 November 7, 2013 Safires are very snively... A Pulse opens a bit quicker but still soft but they don't have that great of a flare in comparison... more like bury the toggles and hope for the best. My Safire would snivel for like 1000ft so plan accordingly. By far the slowest openings out of the dozen or so canopies I've been under. i've never jumped a Pilot and Spectres are nothing special... I'd probably try a Storm if you wanted a 7 cell.NSCR-2376, SCR-15080 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 54 #7 November 7, 2013 Pick ONLY the canopies that offer Dacron lines. A slammer can always happen... My choice? Spectre 190, Dacron lines, one size larger slider than normal (= 26x31 inches with custom brass slider grommets), 30-inch F-111 politchute. 7-second openings, on average. About Dacron: http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=4448401;search_string=dacron%20%25;#4448401 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #8 November 7, 2013 When I came back from my back/pelvis accident, the Pulse was my choice of canopy. A few thousand jumps later, I'm back under a storm, but still jump the pulse for demos and other things It opens softly, usually on-heading. It packs easily. Spectres on Dacron open nicely; I went down that road after talking to some camera friends, but found I preferred the Storm. However, the Storm is a bit aggressive at landing; if you're not current it wouldn't be the top of my list. PD will demo whatever you'd like, or if you find yourself in the SoCal region, I've got demos of Pulse, Storm, and Silhouette in 190 sizes. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #9 November 7, 2013 All of these canopies are inherently soft openers. But I've seen ribs broken and necks broken by specters. That's not a criticism of the specter. It's an example of how a very docile canopy can bight you. If you are serious about protecting your self from hard openings focus on your staging. It's line dump or off sequence deployments that will get you. I'm not a racer fan but you might look into a speed bag for your rig. Big tight stows. Even small things can make a difference. I used to think that they were cheesy but I've heard some very convincing arguments in favor of magnetic riser covers in reference to avoiding hard openings. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RichM 0 #10 November 7, 2013 I and a mate both fly Crossfire 1s of different sizes and ages, and they both take 1100ft from PC throw to fully inflated. Beautifully soft with the slider staying up for quite a while and very gentle inflation. I've got some new lines coming, it will be interesting to see if this changes.Rich M Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DSE 3 #11 November 7, 2013 Any canopy, docile or not, Dacron or not, speedbag or not, magnetic riser covers or not, can bite. No doubt. There are a lot of things we can do to mitigate the risk of a hard opening, and these canopies go a long way towards that. So will a stowless bag. So will proper packing techniques aimed at slowing openings. However, if a physical condition exists where any hard opening could create a bigger problem, perhaps the decision to jump should be rethought more carefully. That's truly the only way to be 100% sure that a greater injury won't occur. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sky_doggy 0 #12 November 7, 2013 Hello, I have owned both a Pulse 170 and now a Pilot 168. I load them at 1.1 I found that the Pulse opened a little "crisper" than the Pilot, but I wouldn't say that it was a "harder" opening canopy, perhaps saying the Pilot snivels a little longer. They both fly pretty flat, both give consistent openings but I find the Pilot more fun to fly. I also have a semi stowless bag and the openings feel less snatchy I don't know how better to describe it. Lastly, there are techniques that you can use at deployment that can get your body a little more vertical during as the canopy opens which helps your neck. Ultimately though, as DSE says, they can all bite and the only way you can be sure that you won't get cracked is not to do it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woppyvac 0 #13 November 7, 2013 Parachute Laboratories Firebolt. I bought it because of how soft the openings are. It's an excellent canopy.Woot Woot! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Douggarr 6 #14 November 7, 2013 SmokinJoeKS, I had a 25 year long layoff. I came back at 59, and I've been active ever since. I'm flying a Spectre 170, mainly because of the incredibly gentle openings. I'm wingloaded at 1:1. No heroics. Just get down softly at my age. Also, I'd like to direct you to the Facebook page of the Skydiver Resurrection Award. If you friend me (Doug Garr), I'll get you on. It's for skydivers who returned after at least a 10 year layoff. No dues, no hassles, just 187 skydivers who made comebacks. We have a hoot. Good luck, and blue skies.QuoteSCR-442, SCS-202, CCR-870, SOS-1353 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites PastorPete 1 #15 November 7, 2013 SmokinJoeKS: I returned to the sport last year at 56 after 30 year lay off. I wanted reasonably quick but soft openings. I pack my own gear, no fancy tricks, nothing rolled or tucked in, slider quartered evenly. I fly a Pilot 188zpx. Haven't got slammed in my first 50 jumps on it. Welcome back brother. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites SmokinJoeKS 0 #16 November 8, 2013 Thanks to everyone for reporting your experiences. Am now looking strongly at going Dacron, will probably demo Pilot, Spectre and Storm. I never had hard openings under my Pegasus or my PD-210, but then I have always tried to be a careful packer and will continue to do so. The Sabre2 that I jumped last week was not uncomfortable either. Going for the softest opening canopy I can find is just a precaution to ensure that I can jump for as many more years as possible. Joe C-16318 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites neflier 0 #17 November 8, 2013 I'm hardly one to give advice, but the Silhouette is known for soft openings. I've put about 150 jumps on mine and every opening has felt like falling into a feather bed. I get lower back pain and a soft opening canopy was high on my list of requirements.Life is too short to drink cheap beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JeffCa 0 #18 November 8, 2013 neflierI'm hardly one to give advice, but the Silhouette is known for soft openings. I've put about 150 jumps on mine and every opening has felt like falling into a feather bed. I get lower back pain and a soft opening canopy was high on my list of requirements. I just went from a Silhouette to a Pilot in September, and the Pilot was noticeably softer on openings. The Silhouette wasn't hard, but the Pilot is better. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 3331 108 #19 November 8, 2013 Check out the Firebolt from www.Jumpshack.com. I have a Firebolt 164 and planning on getting another for my second Racer. The Firebolt is the best all around canopy I’ve ever jumped; it’s designed for soft openings and easy landings. I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnSherman 1 #20 November 8, 2013 QuoteAm now looking strongly at going Dacron, A word about Spectra vs. Dacron: I see here in the form and have heard others repeatedly say that Spectra lined canopies open harder than Dacron lined canopies. I would like to take issue with this foible. I do not agree with this premise and see no proof other than subjective evaluation of the reported phenomenon. When Spectra first became available to the sport we only had one size rubber band and we knew little about line dump/strip or “out of sequence deployment”. The diameter of the line was too small for the rubber bands of the time and some of us doubled wrapped the bights to hold them in. None the less we were getting slammed with line dumps and the Spectra line was blamed. This was the beginning of the myth. I have designed canopies of all shapes and sizes over the last twenty years. When I designed the Firebolt Tandem Main I was told (by the competition) that you could not use Spectra line on a Tandem canopy. Time has proven this was wrong. I have never used anything other than Spectra and have no plans to do differently. The Firebolt is known to be a soft opening canopy. Read the reviews on this site. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/gear/review.cgi?ID=435 I have swapped line from one to the other and seen no difference. Spectra like Kevlar is know to transfer loads faster than Dacron. Folks say that is doesn’t stretch. This is more significant in solid structure than in woven structure. Parachute line is woven. The weave provides the necessary stretch. I have measure opening force loads, hundreds of times, on both Dacron and Spectra lined canopies and can see no difference in resultant force. When I design a canopy I specify Spectra because it holds its trim better and has a better life is lighter and stronger. There is more significance in the spread of your arms when you open than there is in the difference between these 2 options. John Sherman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JeffCa 0 #21 November 8, 2013 On the Dacron vs. Spectra issue, it's John Sherman going head-to-head with Bill Booth and John LeBlanc. The latter two both suggest that Dacron is better for reducing hard openings. John says he has testing that doesn't show a difference, Bill says he has testing that does. So what do we do in this case? Who wants to publish? "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites gowlerk 1,905 #22 November 8, 2013 It's fun watching lions fight. Only problem is that one of them just won't take the bait anymore.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JeffCa 0 #23 November 8, 2013 gowlerkIt's fun watching lions fight. Only problem is that one of them just won't take the bait anymore. I'm not sure if I've been around for long enough to know what you meant by that. If you don't want to write it here, maybe send me a PM? I got Dacron after listening to all 3 of their opinions, because I couldn't see the harm. If there's a chance it's better for my openings, then the only problem with getting it is a slightly larger main compartment on my rig. I'm fine with that. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RiggerLee 61 #24 November 9, 2013 These people now own major companies and try to put on an air of respectability. What a fucking joke. Every one of these people got started as an unwashed, unshaved, skydiver, drinking beer on the drop zone in cutoffs and a t-shirt. It makes me laugh every time I see them put on a fucking tuxedo at the PIA dinners and try to look upstanding in front of all the government muckitymucks. The discussions, disagreements, arguments, conflicts, and out right brawls between these... iconic figures in our sport are nothing short of legendary. We should start a thread of stories about some of the great figures in our sport. Some body help me out. My memory is failing me. Who was it that had the 2*4 and was chasing the other in circles around the drop zone till he hid in his old van. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RiggerLee 61 #25 November 9, 2013 I don't know where you get off making the statement that it holds it's trim better. Dacron does have some stretch and does not hold it's trim perfectly but spectra shrinks horribly. We're talking .5 inches of stretch vs. 5 inches of shrinkage. I don't see any of the lines we use today having enough stretch to absorb enough kinetic energy to make any real difference in the opening forces. I think a better argument might be that the Dacron lines create more friction in the grommets and are some what slower to push the slider down. Even a small change in this could make a difference, particularly in a run away opening where something has gone wrong. So even if it did not have a significant impact on an average opening it might save you from injury on a problem, runaway opening. If you're not seeing any difference it's telling me two things. First, your slider is significantly dominant over your canopy on opening. A good thing, all canopies should be that way, but some don't seem to achieve that. Second, that you did not have significant staging issues in your testing. Let me guess you were using your fucking speed bags. I wouldn't dismiss Dacron or it's benefits but it does come at a price of bulk, weight, drag, and wear. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. 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PastorPete 1 #15 November 7, 2013 SmokinJoeKS: I returned to the sport last year at 56 after 30 year lay off. I wanted reasonably quick but soft openings. I pack my own gear, no fancy tricks, nothing rolled or tucked in, slider quartered evenly. I fly a Pilot 188zpx. Haven't got slammed in my first 50 jumps on it. Welcome back brother. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
SmokinJoeKS 0 #16 November 8, 2013 Thanks to everyone for reporting your experiences. Am now looking strongly at going Dacron, will probably demo Pilot, Spectre and Storm. I never had hard openings under my Pegasus or my PD-210, but then I have always tried to be a careful packer and will continue to do so. The Sabre2 that I jumped last week was not uncomfortable either. Going for the softest opening canopy I can find is just a precaution to ensure that I can jump for as many more years as possible. Joe C-16318 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
neflier 0 #17 November 8, 2013 I'm hardly one to give advice, but the Silhouette is known for soft openings. I've put about 150 jumps on mine and every opening has felt like falling into a feather bed. I get lower back pain and a soft opening canopy was high on my list of requirements.Life is too short to drink cheap beer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffCa 0 #18 November 8, 2013 neflierI'm hardly one to give advice, but the Silhouette is known for soft openings. I've put about 150 jumps on mine and every opening has felt like falling into a feather bed. I get lower back pain and a soft opening canopy was high on my list of requirements. I just went from a Silhouette to a Pilot in September, and the Pilot was noticeably softer on openings. The Silhouette wasn't hard, but the Pilot is better. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3331 108 #19 November 8, 2013 Check out the Firebolt from www.Jumpshack.com. I have a Firebolt 164 and planning on getting another for my second Racer. The Firebolt is the best all around canopy I’ve ever jumped; it’s designed for soft openings and easy landings. I Jumped with the guys who invented Skydiving. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnSherman 1 #20 November 8, 2013 QuoteAm now looking strongly at going Dacron, A word about Spectra vs. Dacron: I see here in the form and have heard others repeatedly say that Spectra lined canopies open harder than Dacron lined canopies. I would like to take issue with this foible. I do not agree with this premise and see no proof other than subjective evaluation of the reported phenomenon. When Spectra first became available to the sport we only had one size rubber band and we knew little about line dump/strip or “out of sequence deployment”. The diameter of the line was too small for the rubber bands of the time and some of us doubled wrapped the bights to hold them in. None the less we were getting slammed with line dumps and the Spectra line was blamed. This was the beginning of the myth. I have designed canopies of all shapes and sizes over the last twenty years. When I designed the Firebolt Tandem Main I was told (by the competition) that you could not use Spectra line on a Tandem canopy. Time has proven this was wrong. I have never used anything other than Spectra and have no plans to do differently. The Firebolt is known to be a soft opening canopy. Read the reviews on this site. http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/gear/review.cgi?ID=435 I have swapped line from one to the other and seen no difference. Spectra like Kevlar is know to transfer loads faster than Dacron. Folks say that is doesn’t stretch. This is more significant in solid structure than in woven structure. Parachute line is woven. The weave provides the necessary stretch. I have measure opening force loads, hundreds of times, on both Dacron and Spectra lined canopies and can see no difference in resultant force. When I design a canopy I specify Spectra because it holds its trim better and has a better life is lighter and stronger. There is more significance in the spread of your arms when you open than there is in the difference between these 2 options. John Sherman Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffCa 0 #21 November 8, 2013 On the Dacron vs. Spectra issue, it's John Sherman going head-to-head with Bill Booth and John LeBlanc. The latter two both suggest that Dacron is better for reducing hard openings. John says he has testing that doesn't show a difference, Bill says he has testing that does. So what do we do in this case? Who wants to publish? "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gowlerk 1,905 #22 November 8, 2013 It's fun watching lions fight. Only problem is that one of them just won't take the bait anymore.Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JeffCa 0 #23 November 8, 2013 gowlerkIt's fun watching lions fight. Only problem is that one of them just won't take the bait anymore. I'm not sure if I've been around for long enough to know what you meant by that. If you don't want to write it here, maybe send me a PM? I got Dacron after listening to all 3 of their opinions, because I couldn't see the harm. If there's a chance it's better for my openings, then the only problem with getting it is a slightly larger main compartment on my rig. I'm fine with that. "So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #24 November 9, 2013 These people now own major companies and try to put on an air of respectability. What a fucking joke. Every one of these people got started as an unwashed, unshaved, skydiver, drinking beer on the drop zone in cutoffs and a t-shirt. It makes me laugh every time I see them put on a fucking tuxedo at the PIA dinners and try to look upstanding in front of all the government muckitymucks. The discussions, disagreements, arguments, conflicts, and out right brawls between these... iconic figures in our sport are nothing short of legendary. We should start a thread of stories about some of the great figures in our sport. Some body help me out. My memory is failing me. Who was it that had the 2*4 and was chasing the other in circles around the drop zone till he hid in his old van. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #25 November 9, 2013 I don't know where you get off making the statement that it holds it's trim better. Dacron does have some stretch and does not hold it's trim perfectly but spectra shrinks horribly. We're talking .5 inches of stretch vs. 5 inches of shrinkage. I don't see any of the lines we use today having enough stretch to absorb enough kinetic energy to make any real difference in the opening forces. I think a better argument might be that the Dacron lines create more friction in the grommets and are some what slower to push the slider down. Even a small change in this could make a difference, particularly in a run away opening where something has gone wrong. So even if it did not have a significant impact on an average opening it might save you from injury on a problem, runaway opening. If you're not seeing any difference it's telling me two things. First, your slider is significantly dominant over your canopy on opening. A good thing, all canopies should be that way, but some don't seem to achieve that. Second, that you did not have significant staging issues in your testing. Let me guess you were using your fucking speed bags. I wouldn't dismiss Dacron or it's benefits but it does come at a price of bulk, weight, drag, and wear. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
