nutellaontoast 0 #26 October 12, 2013 RiggerLeeWasn't it a racer that that blew out a chest strap. Asymetric hard opening and totally tore out all the stitching on one side. I don't recall if they fell out or just got really scared. There was a Russian rig that came apart at the upper junction of the harness at the three ring. It also tore all the stitching. I've seen several nonfatal incidents with either partial or total failure of stitching in the lower junction do to the downwards torking of the webbing. Javelins use wrap around harnesses there and have at least some back up stitching which saved his life. I don't know the details but I always heard stories about a full failure there, late eighties early nineties? They changed the harness in the middle of the vector two around in there. It now wraps around the inner layer of type 8 webbing. And the javelins did break but that was wear a long time coming. We got complacent about the amount of wear till it finally bit us in the ass. I'm going to edit this to add that regardless of how that sounds there really have not been a significant number of harness failures. Harnesses are tough. We over build them and even with a number of fatalities from deceleration we are not breaking harnesses. Your feamers will break, your liver will tear lose with in your abdomen, your aorta will tear in half and your neck will break before you blow up a sound harness. I say that because I've seen or know of every one of those incidents. LeeJust to make sure I understand, so with the exception of cases with obviously noticeable wear, no, there have not?Don't let the fact that I sound like I think that I know what I'm talking about fool you. I know that I don't know what I'm talking about Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #27 October 12, 2013 RiggerLeeWasn't it a racer that that blew out a chest strap. Asymetric hard opening and totally tore out all the stitching on one side. I don't recall if they fell out or just got really scared. Had to double check that one: That was a fatality, in Italy. Possibly premature deployment at bottom end of freefly dive (loose BOC), blew some lines on main, chest strap tore off MLW (not sure of details, but it wasn't the buckle failing). (6/7/2003 in skydivingfatalities.info, dz.com thread 512835) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigMark 1 #28 October 12, 2013 When the harness let's the chest strap break your neck, and it happened twice, I would call that a failure. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #29 October 12, 2013 BigMarkWhen the harness let's the chest strap break your neck, and it happened twice, I would call that a failure. What rig / incidents were those? Was it related to actual harness design? Some older rigs had slightly higher chest straps, and there are always cases of poorly fitting rigs allowing the chest strap to migrate upward on opening. (One sees that more on students.) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BigMark 1 #30 October 12, 2013 http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=1162803;search_string=javelin%20recall;#1162803 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #31 October 14, 2013 Ah, those were the adjustable MLW Javelins that broke, not some separate incidents not previously mentioned here. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RMURRAY 1 #32 October 14, 2013 RiggerLeeRead some of the other threads. But, yes all of the above. Any one have a link to the wings video. I'm not smart enough to find it. Lee http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKVAtjfGjp0 starts at 1:40 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #33 October 14, 2013 RMURRAY ***Read some of the other threads. But, yes all of the above. Any one have a link to the wings video. I'm not smart enough to find it. Lee http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKVAtjfGjp0 starts at 1:40 http://youtu.be/VKVAtjfGjp0?t=1m40s ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
feuergnom 22 #34 October 14, 2013 scary shit on more than one level The universal aptitude for ineptitude makes any human accomplishment an incredible miracle dudeist skydiver # 666 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
zoobrothertom 5 #35 October 15, 2013 Quote I can go on...but ya REALLY don't want me to. Makes the kool-aid taste funny when I do. No, really Airtwardo, don't hold back! Tell us what you really think. ____________________________________ I'm back in the USA!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ctrph8 0 #36 October 19, 2013 Wow! I think your post went up as I was typing mine. Didn't intend to look like I was flaming you, or Racers or... well, anyone. Just giving my opinion about the things I liked and my perceptions of the sport. No. I don't think the manufacturers have any way of knowing about every malfunction on their system. I think they DO pay attention when reports of an issue come up and try to work that out. I really do like the advancements that have come along over the years. I don't ever want another belly band rig or a round reserve (outside of some special jumps) but I was grateful for them at the time. I think construction techniques and the little refinements that go along with years of producing something have gotten better and better. I would much rather jump my current rig than any of my previous rigs even though I really liked them at the time. airtwardo Quote The reserve systems all work well. The bigger manufacturers obviously have more rigs out there and therefore more reserve activations. That means they have more data to study for what works and what doesn't and have incorporated that into their designs. Well..let's say, all of 'em work most of the time & some of 'em work all the time. But to say they all work well may be a stretch. Manufacturers collect data on all their reserve activations? I did not know that! From a more critical viewpoint, one could speculate that 'some' design changes & configurations might be being incorporated to temper the problems incurred from the form over function demands of the skydivers today. RSL yanks the pin but the tapered & tight lay out of the reserve added to the full length F.F. side flaps tends to make the pilot chute struggle a bit at times - lets connect the departing main to the free bag, Hell THAT'LL pull 'er out...sure it's a bit complicated but they'll pay for it to have a good looking rig! Suppose we COULD figure out a way to put the reserve pilot chute outside of those flaps...like the high dollar, no 2nd chance, low level bail-out rigs those airshow pilots trust their lives to - but then it would prolly look like, oh god no, a RACER! Hey I got an idea...let's make the EP handles small, slick and hard to grab, they'll LOOK cool and cost a fraction of what metal handles do to make - but we'll charge the same or heck, put cute sayings on them and charge MORE! Tell 'em they're 'safer' because some CReW dog hooked a hard ripcord in a wrap couple decades ago...Most of those guys have AAD's anyway, handles are damn near a secondary afterthought...Bet we can increase profits by...using cheaper thread through hardware on the leg straps! We'll market it as a weight saver, then sell 'em a weight belt...name it something cool & different like step-in harness... 'cause everybody knows cool is always better. Tell 'em the snap hardware that the military has been using for 100 years is no good because it breaks ALL THE TIME, even if they don't really. - I know these people, who wants to pay attention to what they're doin' when they put on a parachute? Who cares if ya can't get it off in a plane crash or when you hit a lake because nobody can spot...I can go on...but ya REALLY don't want me to. Makes the kool-aid taste funny when I do. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #37 October 21, 2013 QuoteWow! I think your post went up as I was typing mine. Didn't intend to look like I was flaming you, or Racers or... well, anyone. Just giving my opinion about the things I liked and my perceptions of the sport. No. I don't think the manufacturers have any way of knowing about every malfunction on their system. I think they DO pay attention when reports of an issue come up and try to work that out. I really do like the advancements that have come along over the years. I don't ever want another belly band rig or a round reserve (outside of some special jumps) but I was grateful for them at the time. I think construction techniques and the little refinements that go along with years of producing something have gotten better and better. I would much rather jump my current rig than any of my previous rigs even though I really liked them at the time. LOL...hey no worries, I know ya weren't trying to flame me - MY response though somewhat sarcastically tongue in cheek, carries some truth between the lines. $port $kydiving is an interesting market, just don't necessarily believe what the ad says or what the sponsored jumper tells ya. Yes improvements have been made. Yes it's possible to get all kinds of shit you don't need but cost ton$. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
