For anyone asking "Which canopy is best?", the answer is fly them and see what you prefer.

[DocPop 1]

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[TheDoctor2608 0]

Finally somebody gets it! Still it might be helpful to get to know which canopy to test, but this is a questions that is best asked to instructors who know your skills.

[NWFlyer 2]

While I agree with the "try before you buy" approach, asking the question in a more detailed way can also help to narrow down the pool of available options.

For example, I could say "I am looking for a moderate performance canopy that I will load around 1.2. I'm not interested in high-performance landings. I like canopies with a flatter glide."

Then I might get suggestions to try a Pilot or a Pulse or maybe a Nitro/Nitron if I wanted something a little bit sportier.

If I said "My most important criteria is soft, snively openings because I want to minimize the likelihood of a hard opening," someone might say "Try a Spectre or a Pilot, or a Crossfire if you want something with higher performance."

Just saying "Try 'em all" doesn't really help because "all" is a really big universe of options, many of which may not even be appropriate for the person's experience/skill level. As more experienced skydivers, we can guide people to ask better questions than "What should I buy?" which can lead them to good demo options.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[mattjw916 2]

Well that settles it!

Shut down the forums immediately because the answer to every question is always "ask your instructors" or "go fly them yourself"!

Silly people thinking they can have discussions in a discussion forum, WTF! Think of all the megabytes you are wasting, the power the servers are using, the trees you are killing... STOP POSTING NOW TO SAVE THE EARTH FOR THE CHILDREN!!!

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[JohnnyMarko 1]

Gear and Rigging:

"The Dropzone Gear and Rigging forum is where you can discuss any gear related questions and issues. Ask about gear before you buy it and find out what others are using and how."

[rehmwa 2]

My favorite threads are titled "what is the best and cheapest (insert component here)"

then it's full of whatever the next poster uses, blatant advertising by vendors, and other pointless crap about subjective decisions.

sometimes a poll "What do you own?" would give easier results without the churn

(the other one is when instructors pretend to be newbies and post "How much should I tip my instructor" threads.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

[DocPop 1]

NWFlyer

While I agree with the "try before you buy" approach, asking the question in a more detailed way can also help to narrow down the pool of available options.

For example, I could say "I am looking for a moderate performance canopy that I will load around 1.2. I'm not interested in high-performance landings. I like canopies with a flatter glide."

Then I might get suggestions to try a Pilot or a Pulse or maybe a Nitro/Nitron if I wanted something a little bit sportier.

If I said "My most important criteria is soft, snively openings because I want to minimize the likelihood of a hard opening," someone might say "Try a Spectre or a Pilot, or a Crossfire if you want something with higher performance."

Just saying "Try 'em all" doesn't really help because "all" is a really big universe of options, many of which may not even be appropriate for the person's experience/skill level. As more experienced skydivers, we can guide people to ask better questions than "What should I buy?" which can lead them to good demo options.

Agreed. And there are valid canopy questions that get asked, but "Canopy A or Canopy B - which is best?" is not one of them. It's like "Which is better - rice or noodles?".

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[yoink 321]

If you don't know what you're looking for, or the best way to differentiate between characteristics of a canopy and how that may relate to your progression, then your 'go fly them' comment is singularly unhelpful for low experience jumpers.


You could instead take the opportunity to teach new jumper about how to identify those specific questions that would let you help them.

"Sorry - it's not really a question of 'best'. What do you WANT from a canopy. Have you thought about x, y & z?'"

Additionally, 'go fly them' isn't always an easy option for folks not living in the US. You know we have a multinational membership here, right?

Then there's actually living with a parachute. I could put a dozen jumps on a Sabre and it would open OK but maybe the one I buy would be a slammer... Do some go out of trim more than others, how does ZPX last over months and years?

Getting other peoples opinions are useful for longer term considerations - PARTICULARLY for newer jumpers, so rather than being a skygod about it, how about you ignore the threads which don't interest you and let others help people that are looking for it?

[woppyvac 0]

truth. and just because everyone and their mother runs to the bigger named manufactures doesn't mean they are the best options. on a fluke i demoed a firebolt. best fluke i've made in this sport. try em' all.

Woot Woot!

[airtwardo 7]

I'm curious as to how many people actually DID demo several choices prior to selection?

My last several purchases were sponsored to an extent so my choice was rather limited...but I had tried similar types at various boogies when available.

That said, many people I know buy simply upon recommendation or because it's used & available.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[jumpsracer 6]

I'm petty sure I specified which canopy has better bottom end performance. That pretty much narrows it down to what I'm looking for!! I've been jumping a lot longer than most instructors, since 76, so that tired excuse won't work. At $100.00 a pop for a PD demo it can get expensive "trying" them all! If you can't get a straight answer to a straight question then delete this forum as it serves no purpose!!!

[JohnnyMarko 1]

airtwardo

I'm curious as to how many people actually DID demo several choices prior to selection?

I demoed a Sabre 2, Spectre, Safire 2, and a Pulse....then bought a Silhouette without ever having flown it

[DocPop 1]

jumpsracer

I'm petty sure I specified which canopy has better bottom end performance. That pretty much narrows it down to what I'm looking for!! I've been jumping a lot longer than most instructors, since 76, so that tired excuse won't work. At $100.00 a pop for a PD demo it can get expensive "trying" them all! If you can't get a straight answer to a straight question then delete this forum as it serves no purpose!!!

This is pretty much what I am talking about.

You don't want to pay to demo (haven't you got any mates who will let you put a few jumps on theirs) but you're ok to go and buy one you haven't flown?

That's all backwards to me.

Ask people for their opinion and you'll get a bunch of biased views which may not agree with yours.

Opinions are like clitorises - every cunt's got one. The only one that matters is yours.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[mattjw916 2]

rofl

I've jumped and/or owned nearly a dozen canopies from 5 different manufacturers and bought a Pulse without demoing it either.

I agree it's time consuming/costly to demo, especially if you aren't at a big DZ, and sometimes just getting "good enough" information online is enough when you just want to see if grabbing a used canopy off the classifieds is going to work out reasonably well or not. After all you can always resell it if you don't like it.

Hanging out at a DZ may or may not even be a good source of info since a lot of places seem to think PD is the only canopy manufacturer in existence. When I first started out basically the Sabre 2 was the go-to choice and if you had landing issues (or were female) a Spectre was the alternative. Rarely, if ever, did I hear anyone recommend anything else. My Safire 189 was pretty rare and I got a few "I wouldn't jump that" comments about what was basically a nice, snively, sky barge at my w/l.

There are a lot more options now though which is nice.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[JeffCa 0]

DocPop

Agreed. And there are valid canopy questions that get asked, but "Canopy A or Canopy B - which is best?" is not one of them. It's like "Which is better - rice or noodles?".

That's funny. I graded a speech on that exact topic, with exactly that title, yesterday.

You're a spoiled American jumper who gets to demo anything he wants for relatively cheap. Here in Japan, we don't get to demo anything. And there are no boogies that manufacturers attend with gear. Our DZ is a small one, with relatively few jumpers, and without a culture of borrowing other people's gear. We're also pretty much PD-only. I wanted to try/buy a Pilot. The only other Pilot on the DZ is owned by a visiting American military jumper, who I hadn't seen in weeks, and it's 2 sizes too small for me. I can only think of one other person who has a non-PD canopy here, the Frenchie with his Parachutes de France system. So I bought the Pilot without trying it, based on conversations and feedback about canopies ON THIS FORUM.

So I apologise on behalf of all members of the forum who don't live in a gear-demoing paradise. And I express my support of conversations that help people to choose their canopy without necessarily trying them.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

[airtwardo 7]

Quote

So I apologise on behalf of all members of the forum who don't live in a gear-demoing paradise. And I express my support of conversations that help people to choose their canopy without necessarily trying them.

That's kinda the answer I was expecting.

Smaller DZ's tend to use one type over another so there generally isn't a lot of 'choices' even at small places that DO have a culture of borrowing equipment.

Newer jumpers don't usually have a lot of boogie experience & don't get to demo new stuff...and if one is already on a tight budget, serious thought is given to 'renting' a demo.

Even an old fart like ME learns from the various posts regarding canopy type and reasons for choosing...at my 'advanced' age I know right off several I don't even need to consider!

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[nigel99 411]

airtwardo

I'm curious as to how many people actually DID demo several choices prior to selection?

My last several purchases were sponsored to an extent so my choice was rather limited...but I had tried similar types at various boogies when available.

That said, many people I know buy simply upon recommendation or because it's used & available.

It's very difficult to get demos here. Our canopy choices are largely lead by the experienced canopy pilots, so for a while it was PD and recently it has swung heavily towards Icarus.

I've not has the opportunity to demo a canopy and have only recently experienced a Crossfire, rather than y normal Sabre 1 and 2 jumps. I am in the market and am going to be jumping as many different canopies as I can (although my mind is pretty much made up already).it is difficult though as it means borrowing gear.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[jumpsracer 6]

So you have no problem sending me $200.00 so I can demo both right? It's simple, if it's Pulse/Sabre then that's what I'll spend my hard earned money on to demo! At over $2000.00 a pop I don't have the time or money to waste on a canopy that doesn't give me the performance I want! Jumper feedback is always important, to me at least, on what gear is worth it/don't waste your time! I asked a simple fucking question to which you come up with a smart ass response! Save your comments for some poor newbie who doesn't know any better!

[grue 1]

airtwardo

Smaller DZ's tend to use one type over another so there generally isn't a lot of 'choices' even at small places that DO have a culture of borrowing equipment.

Sure as hell raised some eyebrows when my Precision Aerodynamics Fusion with its fancy HMA lines showed up at my old Cessna home DZ, I can tell ya

Then I started psycho packing it as per the recommendation and they REALLY got wound up

cavete terrae.

[grue 1]

nigel99

I've not has the opportunity to demo a canopy and have only recently experienced a Crossfire, rather than y normal Sabre 1 and 2 jumps. I am in the market and am going to be jumping as many different canopies as I can (although my mind is pretty much made up already).it is difficult though as it means borrowing gear.

If you weren't on the wrong side of the country and half my size I'd let you try my canopy

cavete terrae.

[nigel99 411]

grue

***
I've not has the opportunity to demo a canopy and have only recently experienced a Crossfire, rather than y normal Sabre 1 and 2 jumps. I am in the market and am going to be jumping as many different canopies as I can (although my mind is pretty much made up already).it is difficult though as it means borrowing gear.

If you weren't on the wrong side of the country and half my size I'd let you try my canopy

Thanks, NZ Aero are actually bringing a few canopies to the boogie in 2 weeks time

I would love nothing more than 2 put 5 jumps on each of the main canopies before making a commitment. Especially as my next canopy is going to be new, as I plan on sticking with it (current front runner is a Crossfire 2 139).

BTW - We will have Optimum Demos for the first time ever - so getting to put a bunch of jumps on an Optimum soon. But it has been a mammoth effort by someone to get them over from the US.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[NWFlyer 2]

airtwardo

I'm curious as to how many people actually DID demo several choices prior to selection?

.....

That said, many people I know buy simply upon recommendation or because it's used & available.

The latter is pretty much exactly what I did for my first canopy, a Spectre. I worked with my instructors to figure out what size I should be jumping, found a container/reserve that worked, then looked around for a canopy that would fit. A Spectre in the right size in good condition and for a good price became available, and I bought it having never jumped one before. I knew enough to know that Spectres had a reputation for nice, soft openings, and that it was a good canopy for my skill level, but beyond that, it was used and available.

I was able to demo my next canopy (a Pilot) - the person I bought it from sent it to me and let me put a bunch of jumps on it before making my decision. I wound up liking it and deciding to buy it, but if I hadn't bought it I could have just sent it back to him (I probably would have thrown in a few bucks for wear & tear). That'd be tougher for a newer jumper - the seller & I had enough mutual friends that he was willing to trust me not to fuck him over and sent me the canopy without any deposit, since he was confident I'd honor the agreement to buy it or send it back within a reasonable time frame in the same condition I got it.

Now, I have a PD Pulse in both of my containers. I did demo that before I bought, through the PD demo program.

I've also taken advantage of opportunities to try a couple other canopies here and there - a Sabre 2 at a boogie, a Fusion when I rented gear whilst waiting for a new freebag, and a Storm through the PD demo program. Those were more of a situation where I took advantage of an opportunity to see some other options, even though I wasn't actively searching for a new canopy.

"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

[DocPop 1]

So did you get a nice, unanimous response to your question?

You did not. You still don't know which canopy suits you best.

That's my point.

But really, don't get all wound up - it's just a chat room.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[nigel99 411]

***So did you get a nice, unanimous response to your question?

You did not. You still don't know which canopy suits you best.

That's my point.

But really, don't get all wound up - it's just a chat room.[/qu

You don't need a unanimous decision, all you need is someone to mention a characteristic that is important to you and its helped the decision process.

By the way next newbie that asks why not a Katana for their first canopy, I assume the correct answer is shut up and demo it?

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[JohnnyMarko 1]

HEYOOOO!

Good one