Can/should the cutaway/reserve handles be moved?

[EtherPilot 0]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/31/bill-booth-skydiving_n_3683967.html

At the 1:34 mark you'll notice the black square cutaway handle is actually part of the harness strap/riser cover. If I'm flubbing the nomenclature then I apologize. I've thought about this over and over and it made me think of soldiers who place inverted t-handle knives on their chest rigs. They do this because it's easy to to reach for and present one of those knives. I have the exact setup on my backpack and whenever I need my little Cold Steel knife, I always draw it without looking at it.

This mockup in the Huff Post design....is it an old design? It seems like a good idea to me. I am not a biomedical engineer or a physical therapist but I would also wonder if the Huff Post design doesn't give a skydiver more ability to pull harder on the cutaway handle. The Huff Post mockup cutaway design would be like a pull up using much of the upper back muscles, while the down-low cutaway handle on current rigs seems to be more about tricep strength. Also, placing the cutaway handle higher at least would give the skydiver more ability to pull the entire cutaway cable system out in one stroke versus possibly having to use both hands to yank the yellow cord all the way out once it was almost completely out.

What interests me most about skydiving gear is the location of the cutaway and reserve handles, and the shape of the handles. While I am a total newbie, naive AFF student who can't even afford to keep up with AFF right now I would like to put forth the thought that in some way the cutaway and reserve handle systems will be improved at some point, so why not at least start discussing that now.

That said, why aren't cutaway handles and reserve handles up high near the 3-ring system like the cutaway handle is in the Huff Post mockup? Thanks.

If freefall lasted five minutes, skydiving would replace sex.

[rifleman 61]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/31/bill-booth-skydiving_n_3683967.html

Clickified

Atheism is a Non-Prophet Organisation

[chemist 0]

why do you need to have immediate access to a cold steel knife? Are people trying to kill you?

[excaza 1]

EtherPilot

The Huff Post mockup cutaway design would be like a pull up using much of the upper back muscles, while the down-low cutaway handle on current rigs seems to be more about tricep strength.

I think that's backwards.

Remember that you're pushing your handles down, so moving the handles up to shoulder level is going to make it a two stage process. First stage is going to be almost all triceps to move your lower arm into a strong second stage pushing position. Either that or you're going to have to do some weird arm rotation to clear your handles. Either way, I'm going to get a far stronger & faster (the important one) push down with the handles where they are currently.

Not to mention a handle up on the shoulder like that is going to be super easy to snag on things.

[ChrisD 0]

If freefall lasted five min we would have more babies....

C

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

[councilman24 36]

I've never seen that animation before but it is a two point release rather than a single handle for both sides. I use something very similar on an intentional cutaway system only the handle is on the riser.

I believe this is just a simplified animation to make it obvious to non skydivers. I wouldn't but a hole in my main lift web, I wouldn't have two handles instead of one.

This is just an functional illustration, not a design.

We used to have T handles for reserves, they were called blast handles.
http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/blast-handle-ripcord-parachute-packs-w-ejection
Best image I can find. Long ago determined to not be the best idea for skydiving.

Get a little more experience and knowledge before you start designing you rig.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[riggerrob 558]

That AutoCAD drawing is rather crude, with several structural errors.
Which muscle you need is irrelevant, because pull-force on a 3-Ring should not exceed 5 pounds. If pull-force exceeds 5 pounds, then your cables are filthy and you have bigger problems (e.g. jumping in dusty conditions, but never cleaning your cables).
IOW 3-Ring cables are like machine guns: in that they rarely jam as long as they are clean and properly oiled.

[riggerrob 558]

Over the years, we have experimented with a lot of different release systems and handles. The current handle configuration is the result of many deaths and more "close-calls."
IOW The current handle configuration is "the least of the evils." Canopy release and reserve ripcord handles have not changed since the mid-1980s.
During the early 1990s, the skydiving industry standardized on BOC main deployment.
Now compare accident, incident and malfunction rates (see United States Parachute Association Annual Fatality Summaries) between the 1970s and the 1990s. You will find far fewer low-pull/low-pull deaths since 1990s.

For example, a 3-Ring system requires a pull of less than 5 pounds to release. That is why 3-Ring handles still have "antiquated" Velcro, to increase the pull-force to the point that they rarely fall off accidentally.

[g2gjump 0]

riggerrob

Over the years, we have experimented with a lot of different release systems and handles. The current handle configuration is the result of many deaths and more "close-calls."
IOW The current handle configuration is "the least of the evils." Canopy release and reserve ripcord handles have not changed since the mid-1980s.
During the early 1990s, the skydiving industry standardized on BOC main deployment.
Now compare accident, incident and malfunction rates (see United States Parachute Association Annual Fatality Summaries) between the 1970s and the 1990s. You will find far fewer low-pull/low-pull deaths since 1990s.

For example, a 3-Ring system requires a pull of less than 5 pounds to release. That is why 3-Ring handles still have "antiquated" Velcro, to increase the pull-force to the point that they rarely fall off accidentally.

This is a little off topic but Rob i think you can answer it.

I recall seeing a rig that had the cutaway and reserve handles above the chest strap. I wanna say it was a naro or a clone of a vector/talon.

Do you have an idea what it was?

[JerryBaumchen 1,046]

Hi g2g,

Quote

Do you have an idea what it was?

Two rigs come to mind.

The early Centaurus rigs built by Centaurus Corp. had them that way. I do not know if the NAA Centaurus rigs have them that way.

The EOS by Para-Flite had/has them that way.

JerryBaumchen

[mattjw916 2]

Telesis with an SOS?

http://www.parachutesaustralia.com/s2/prod_telesis.php

Not exactly the same thing but that was the first thing that came to mind...

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[g2gjump 0]

JerryBaumchen

Hi g2g,

Quote

Do you have an idea what it was?

Two rigs come to mind.

The early Centaurus rigs built by Centaurus Corp. had them that way. I do not know if the NAA Centaurus rigs have them that way.

The EOS by Para-Flite had/has them that way.

JerryBaumchen

I just downloaded the EOS manual and it was the rig I was thinking of. Thanks Jerry!

[grue 1]

mattjw916

Telesis with an SOS?

http://www.parachutesaustralia.com/s2/prod_telesis.php

Not exactly the same thing but that was the first thing that came to mind...

I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate the fact that those exist and are still being manufactured. There is absolutely no reason to be training people on gear that is substantially dissimilar to what they will actually use unless they are at a staticline DZ.

cavete terrae.

[g2gjump 0]

grue

***Telesis with an SOS?

http://www.parachutesaustralia.com/s2/prod_telesis.php

Not exactly the same thing but that was the first thing that came to mind...

I hate hate hate hate hate hate hate the fact that those exist and are still being manufactured. There is absolutely no reason to be training people on gear that is substantially dissimilar to what they will actually use unless they are at a staticline DZ.



Those exist for various reasons besides staticline dzs.

[grue 1]

g2gjump

Those exist for various reasons besides staticline dzs.

To be clear. I am taking issue with nonstandard handle types and placements. I have no issue with SOS systems in a general sense.

I would be very interested to hear good reasons why someone would use a high-placed chest-mounted ripcord for main deployment as a student.

If a student is doing AFF, he should be using gear as similar as possible to a real-world sport rig.

If a student is doing static line, he should transition as quickly as possible to gear as similar as possible to a real-world sport rig.

cavete terrae.