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ChrisD

New. Collapsable pilot chute uncocking itself.

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Did a search, found a few similar, request to post under new title...

This is actually a common problem that frequently gets overlooked.

Your getting the air out of your canopy, on the ground, laying on everything and you notice the bridal and PC under everything, so you pull on the bridal to geet it out of the way....

this de cocks the PC. You forget to check, cause you already cocked the PC, in your head you have already checked everything so you forget to check the window...Then you close everything up...

Watch for this and you will see (hundreds of ?) people do this everyday....Wink


C
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

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popsjumper

Rarely seen that where it actually uncocks the PC. Color disappears? yeah but that doesn't mean it's not cocked...it means you should check it for sure.



Agreed, but my point is: I don't know how much the thing has moved???

Then the next thing is to recock the thing while the canopy is in the bag????

Then we did a test while an unsuspecting packer was constantly pulling the PC bridal out from under themselves and in fact the thing was fully uncocked!

This caught my attention....

:)
C

So what to do when the color disappears???? I know what you would do and many others ;), but when this was pointed out to me it was another common practice that I think happens in large numbers....
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

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ChrisD



Watch for this and you will see (hundreds of ?) people do this everyday....Wink


C



But you don't see hundreds of people with an uncocked PCIT every day so how much effect is it having....?
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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DocPop

***

Watch for this and you will see (hundreds of ?) people do this everyday....Wink


C



But you don't see hundreds of people with an uncocked PCIT every day so how much effect is it having....?

Agreed,;)

But what about the one when this matters????

C

Do you teach packing classes with this in mind? I'm going to be aware of this issue more often now than before.

It is no longer just kicking the pre-cocked PC out of the way, I am going to make sure that it is to the side and treat it a little more carefully from now on :)
Cause I have no idea how much effect this is having....:)

C
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

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Smart advice.
Waste of time to cock it any earlier.
Koric101

Or get into a habit of cocking it after you roll the tail and set it down. Once you pull it out from under the canopy cock it and it's not in the way, next step is to throw it in the bag. (plus checking it right before dbag goes into container never hurts.)


This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

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ChrisD

Did a search, found a few similar, request to post under new title...

This is actually a common problem that frequently gets overlooked.

Your getting the air out of your canopy, on the ground, laying on everything and you notice the bridal and PC under everything, so you pull on the bridal to geet it out of the way....

this de cocks the PC. You forget to check, cause you already cocked the PC, in your head you have already checked everything so you forget to check the window...Then you close everything up...

Watch for this and you will see (hundreds of ?) people do this everyday....Wink


C



I could care less about anything prior to my cocking of the p/c AFTER my canopy is laid out.

I cock my p/c twice. Once just before I bag the canopy and again as a confirmation after it's in the bag with a few line stows completed.

One of the best ways to insure your p/c is cocked is to re-cock and check it once your deployment bag has stows in place. It's virtually impossible to disturb the cocked position of the p/c once everything is tucked inside the D-bag.

I add to this the one sure-fire way to be sure it's cocked. Get a gear check FROM ANOTHER JUMPER prior to boarding the plan.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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My bungee pilot chute is always uncocked when I pack it. It still surprises new packers sometimes!



You beat me to it!
A lot of people do not understand the theory of what you just said though.

For you that do not understand this, parasitic drag cocks the PC.
Which means that if your kill line PC has moved a little, do not worry because the same parasitic drag will re-cock your PC unless the kill line is caught inside the bag.


MEL
Skyworks Parachute Service, LLC
www.Skyworksparachuteservice.com

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masterrigger1

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My bungee pilot chute is always uncocked when I pack it. It still surprises new packers sometimes!



You beat me to it!
A lot of people do not understand the theory of what you just said though.

For you that do not understand this, parasitic drag cocks the PC.
Which means that if your kill line PC has moved a little, do not worry because the same parasitic drag will re-cock your PC unless the kill line is caught inside the bag.


MEL



If that's the case, why bother cocking them at all? And if you're correct, how is it people who fail to cock their p/c often (most of the time?) have p/c in tow mals?
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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Masterigger1 did say "a little" and I did say "bungee pilot chute". If you cock a kill line pilot chute at all, it usually produces enough drag to deploy a main even if the kill line is pulled back a bit while packing. A bungee pilot chute has no kill line and the pilot chute is always uncocked till about 50-60 mph airspeed is attained.

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I was taught to cock the pilot chute early in the pack job, once before placing the bag in the container and then once before putting it in the BOC pouch. The last check is done by making sure the pilot chute catches air properly before laying it down to fold ala Brian Germaine. By the way Thanks Brian, your technique works great and gives me peace of mind.

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Dan raises an interesting point about this whole thing and that was how much green or blue should there be? (In the window.) I mean how much of an issue is this??

I've been speaking to some of the manufacturers about the kill line shrinking ( and the response that the bridal also enlongates.) And The big answere that was a surprise to me was the concern about big numbers of PC's being too old....

More than once I have sworn I fully cocked my PC but I wouldn't swear to it in court. I mean I think I have forgotten to cock the thing entirely. (On hurried calls, no excuse, I know.) With my Spectre, which has a long snivel anyways it can be hard to tell. Will the thing pull and deploy the bag even if it's not cocked. Not promoting this type of thing. But on my old Mirage the blue line on the kill line is about 3 inch's long. On my UPT kill line, fully enclosed, the green mark is about one inch long? It is brand new and the accordion folds, the part of the bridal in the main bag, I mean you can just watch it push back on itself as it sort of unfolds a little....??? I suppose a little isn't a big deal, and I have been told that as it ages it won't push as much, but neverless it is a little creepy to watch.

It would be more comforting to read in the manual that you have a couple of inch's of play before there are any changes in effectiveness?

It's just that I saw so many packing with the PC under everything , and now I see it everywhere that I raised this issue.

For me I just want to stack everything I do in my favor.

ditto the Brian G method....

I mean I did in fact fold the PC brains way and then I folded it the Pizza method, and or the half / half again. In all cases I can pull out the PC from the pouch, I recommend any and all to try this themselves. But in the Germain method the bridal pull is soo easy and smooth with no bunching up in the pouch (I can see how the folds do in fact bunch up and keep the PC in the pouch, I mean I can pull it out but there is considereable force difference.) it kind of speaks for itself. I guess it is a question of how much drag the bag creates to pull the PC out to prevent the horseshoe.... not related to uncocking but a great reminder while we are in this area.

C

Perhaps I'm just being paranoid again, I just hope this discussion saves someone some grief....
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

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ChrisD

Dan raises an interesting point about this whole thing and that was how much green or blue should there be? (In the window.) I mean how much of an issue is this??



I don't use the kill line window during the pack job (only at pin checks).

I cock the PC and then hold the PC upside down. The tapes should be holding the weight of the PC, not the kill line. If that's true then the PC is truly cocked.

Quote

Always cock your pilot chute; never shoot your pilot's cock


"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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jimjumper

Masterigger1 did say "a little" and I did say "bungee pilot chute". If you cock a kill line pilot chute at all, it usually produces enough drag to deploy a main even if the kill line is pulled back a bit while packing. A bungee pilot chute has no kill line and the pilot chute is always uncocked till about 50-60 mph airspeed is attained.



Yes, I am aware of the bungee system. Sorry, I missed Masterriger1's comment about the uncocking being a minor amount.

I agree on that but I will add that folks reading this thread should understand that he said "a little" uncocking, and understand that even a partially uncocked p/c can fail to create enough drag to pull the main pin.

Still, the best method I know of to be sure the p/c is/stays cocked is to confirm it is cocked AFTER the canopy is in the d-bag.

And get a gear check. NOT getting one has cost many, many reserve rides, injuries, and deaths.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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I use Brian Germains method to pack my PC


+1

In my book Brian Germain’s method is by far the best for two reasons:
•makes it impossible to pack un-cocked PC
and
•prevents horse shoe malfunction

I have not seen too many very experienced skydivers using it though. So, I always wonder if there is any real reason behind it :ph34r:.
The greatest enemy of knowledge is not ignorance, it is the illusion of knowledge.

Stephen Hawking

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