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rgoper

Reporters In Chicago Running Amuck....

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SDC was given a chance to comment but Roger turned it down or was not availble, that seems to be plenty of opprotunity to set the record straight if needed



And I'm sure, if he had made a comment, it would have been used in its entirety, not taken out of context or chopped up, making his comment look like something other then it is. In my personal experience with reporters and the media, they have done this to me, my friends and my Aggie family and it makes me sick. >:(
--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

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Richard --

With all due respect, I think you're just a tad too sensitive about this particular article.

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. . . let's face it, roger is "high profile" he's a target, would it not be in our best interests to not stand up for him? . . .



If somebody in our sport is targeted by the media for attack, we should support or not support him because we actually agree with his point of view, not simply because he's a "high profile" member of our community.

Did you stand up for Bill Clinton (simply because he was our President) when he was being attacked by the media? I'm guessing not. I'm hoping not.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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>would it not be in our best interests to not stand up for him?

I have no desire to do so. He is a convicted criminal, and while I bear him no malice, I have no desire to defend such a person either. He made his own bed.

>if they stick roger, there sticking all of us.

I think that's an untenable position. If a famous skydiver shot and killed someone during a bar fight, and the press started in with "Skydiver slays woman in bar" would you be calling for us to support him? I wouldn't - a murderer is a murderer. They may also be a skydiver, but that doesn't entitle them to free support when they do something wrong.

And if, years later, he is released and kills someone else in a bar fight, are you really going to protest when the press points out that he's done this before? Again, he gets no extra credit just because he jumps (at least in my book.)

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You know i wonder if the reporter who wrote the article was given some extra information form a jumper whos handle starts with a T and has tandem in it?:P Now hows that for conspiracy..........

All in all we do not need articles like this. It is detrimental to our sport. But it is America and our press has all the right to publish this kind of info. Too bad for us:|

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That is a typical liberal media witch hunt . What the fuck does his drug conviction have to do with this other than to trash Roger . I hate reporters and their trash the person and never admit you are wrong attitude . There is a lot more to the drug story than the press would ever publish .


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that seems to be plenty of opprotunity to set the record straight if needed.




I don't think it would be in his best interests to comment directly to the media. If anything, at this point I would have an attorney make a statement for me. This smells bad already and he can have no idea where it may go next. If I was Roger I would tread very carefully.

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There's a right way and a wrong way to deal with the media. Among other things, I work for a very high profile company that occasionally has to deal with the good and bad side of stories about safety -- very occasionally a death. I've seen it done right and I've seen it done very wrong.

Without a doubt, saying "no comment" or not being available for comment is absolutely the wrong way to go about it. It only makes you look suspicious and the reporters want to dig in their heals.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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I just got a frantic call from my mother in Pensacola, Fla today who read that article in the local News Journal. She was in tears begging me not to skydive saying that "if an instructor was killed then surely I would die too because he knew what he was doing and I do not." AYE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!>:(

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how would we feel if after 20 freaking years somebody comes back and puts your name, and offense in a nationally distributed newspaper, in relation to a tragic event such as this?

Just ask any politition... they under go this all the time and no one says a word about it.



politicians are very aware that they will be scrutinized well before placing their name on the ballot. a DZO should not expect the same treatment.

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well... if there are fatilities occuring due to possible drug related conditions.. at a former drug trafficers place of residence/business.. .the reporter might have seen a link there even if there was none. Opening the doors to our culture and informing... not critizing is the only way to prove that not all skydivers are druggies and do a line then hop on the plane...



so your statement means speculation on the part of the media is o.k.?


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reporters showed concise vindictive behaviour with the remarks and veiled references.

Umm... all he did was print court documents that are public knowledge any ways.



i would never had know this about Mr. Nelson, if it wasn't for the efforts of the Chicago Tribune



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SDC was given a chance to comment but Roger turned it down or was not availble, that seems to be plenty of opprotunity to set the record straight if needed.



can you blame him for NOT responding? i wouldn't either. all they would do is take anything he, or his staff says, out of context anyway. besides, how could he possibly comment on something he had no knowledge of? he was in a meeting with U.S.P.A. officials at the time. i wouldn't have "speculated" either. this event should "unite" us, and not "divide" us, as i stated, if they jab him, there jabbing us as well. are we a sky diving "family" or not? Mr. Nelson probably feels bad enough about the loss of life the way it is, without the added distress of "useless information" floating around. we should all call up the Tribune, and express our dismay. my .02 USD.

"People Who Live In Glass Houses, Should Be The Only Ones To Throw Stones"
--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

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we should all call up the Tribune, and express our dismay.


Something to remember is that actions speak louder than words........but silence speaks volumes...
Feel free to support whomever you choose, but please don't try to cram your .02 down people's throats. I think we all understood your position the first time.
As for me........I will wait for the facts.......ALL of them.
CheersB|








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>i would never had know this about Mr. Nelson, if it wasn't for the efforts of the Chicago Tribune

Sit around and ask some REAL oldtimers about stuff like this.... its kinda funny that every one complains that all "Major" movies with skydiving are basically drug/money running movies.... well... Writers write on what they know and have experienced....;)
Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

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"4) roger nelson in fact committed some crimes YEARS ago, he paid his debt to society, he's done his part. how long is he to be held accountable? "
Why should Roger be the only one in the world to not be held accountable for his actions years down the road? Sure, not everyone elses actions are mentioned in a small blurb in the Trib, but to say that people should ignore what went on in the past is foolish. He did not "pay his debt to society". He ratted someone else out and was punished. Paying your debt to society is a whole other matter.

"3) why did they bring it up? answer: for monetary gain(s) to sell newspapers. "
You can't honestly think that mentioning Roger's past made people rush to purchase subscriptions, do you?

"let's face it, roger is "high profile" he's a target, would it not be in our best interests to not stand up for him? "
I would stand up for him if the paper had lied about him in some form or another.

"in my opinion, and in my heart, it is wrong, "
That's fine......but my opinion backs the first amendment (which also gives you the opportunity to publicly complain about the "unfairness" of the article and allows you to voice your opinions back to the editor). Whether it is a fine piece of writing or not, there is nothing wrong with it.
There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning

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richard finally relents in utter dismay, throwing hands up in air shouting "can you believe this?" in absolute and complete dissbelief at the "holier than thous" but he wonders aloud "what would have happened if he would have trash talked roger?"

guys/gals:
in the end, all you can do is stand up for what you believe is right, good, bad or indifferent. i've said all i'm going to say, good evening.
--Richard--
"We Will Not Be Shaken By Thugs, And Terroist"

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Exactly. What the paper said may be true, but why bring it up? A man is dead, it's not Roger's fault, so who cares what he did 10 years ago?!



Because if he's not going to comment, at all... then they have no choice but to make assumptions based on what they do know about him.

In this case, they're suggesting that because he's a convicted drug fellon, he probably doesn't follow the rules that well, and this might've contributed.

One one hand we all know this is false, because we're ultimately responsible for ourselves, On ther other, I don't know SDC to have a strong sober voice saying "you probably don't want to be doing that..."

_Am
__

You put the fun in "funnel" - craichead.

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The ex-journalist in me feels the same way. Maybe there's a problem of balance with Roger's past, but the number of fatalities is worth a story. 'Course its a busy DZ with lots of jumps but can we compare with, say, Eloy or Perris?

The AFF instructor fatality at CPI in Connecticut last month got far worse press.

HW

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One one hand we all know this is false, because we're ultimately responsible for ourselves, On ther other, I don't know SDC to have a strong sober voice saying "you probably don't want to be doing that..."



No less than two people I know told Ron NOT to swoop the pond on that day. What do you want us to do? Tackle him as he walks to the plane? You all are rich. You whine about regulation and not having people tell you what to do with your personal lives. Yet, when something like this happens you want to blame Roger because "I don't know SDC to have a strong sober voice saying "you probably don't want to be doing that..." ". That's a crock! YOU CAN'T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS!

Make up your mind. You want freedom or you want regulation?

Chris Schindler

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Eloy has not had a fatality in nearly 3 years. According to manifest we had appx. 100,000 jumps in the last year.
I know statistically speaking, less than 10% of the jumpers here in Eloy have under 1000 jumps.
Chris is correct folks.........you can't have it both ways.








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And don't forget that both Eloy and Perris operate pretty much 7-day-a-week 364 days a year (Perris takes Christmas off).

My -guess- is that both Perris and Eloy put up as many if not more skydivers per year than SDC, but obviously there's no way of us actually knowing.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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My -guess- is that both Perris and Eloy put up as many if not more skydivers per year than SDC, but obviously there's no way of us actually knowing.



No, but can we rough estimate? Generalize? What would be a good figure for a weekday at Perris? Weekend? There has got to be some way to get an estimated figure so a halfway decent comparison can be made, right?

Ciels and Pinks-
Michele


~Do Angels keep the dreams we seek
While our hearts lie bleeding?~

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Well, you could try but my guess is that you could easily be as much as 50 percent off. Just too many variables. However, let's just assume an average weekend at Perris puts up about 40 loads each day and each load has a minimum of 12 passengers.

40*12*52*2=49920 and that would just be weekends with minimum loads, but even that would just be a guess. If the 40 loads were of 20 passengers then that number jumps up to 83200 and again would just be for the weekends.

Now, the reality is that probably no dropzone is going to actually let you know the real numbers. It's not in their best interests for a number of reasons.
quade -
The World's Most Boring Skydiver

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4) roger nelson in fact committed some crimes YEARS ago, he paid his debt to society, he's done his part. how long is he to be held accountable?



Forever. He made the decision to do that and got caught. That's part of his past and he can't erase it. Just because the justice system says he has paid his debt, doesn't mean that we can pretent that it never happened, it just means that legally, he has been punished for it.

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NO ONE here can say they don't have a "skeleton" or two in the closet, or that we haven't made a mistake at some point in time in our lives.



I love it when people make "factual" statements that are simply impossible to back up. Some people make better decisions with their lives than others. It's as simple as that.

"Your mother's full of stupidjuice!"
My Art Project

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Funny that Roger is getting beat up for his reputation. When I saw him at the Mardi Gras Boogie he talked about skydivers in general and how low we were on the social scale and how he wanted to change that. Wanted to clean up the langauge and actions and he was starting at his DZ. He challenged us all to clean it up.

You could tell from his talking that he loves our sport and what we do. Of all the things he wants I am sure it isn't to bring negative press on Skydivers.

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Actually, Roger himself has cautioned against radical moves under canopy for one with limited experience in such techniques, both in person and through writings in the past. In this particular case, Ron had asked for advice on the place ride up on doing pond swoops, and was cautioned against trying it by those on the load. Thant he chose to anyway was a shame. He narrowly missed two friends of mine on the way past the dock.
I don't drink during the day, so I don't know what it is about this airline. I keep falling out the door of the plane.

Harry, FB #4143

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