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vanessalh

Stowless d-bags

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Hi folks,

I was jumping in Chicagoland a few weeks back, and someone mentioned stowless d-bags. This was the first I'd heard of them.
As he explained it, it's more like semi-stowless d-bags, with the first two stows going through the elastic bands, and the remainder of the lines folded neatly into a flap.

He mentioned that this tends to result in smoother deployments, since elastic bands could have uneven tension on the lines.

I also like the allure of replacing bands less frequently...

Does anyone have experience with stowless d-bags?
Would you recommend them?
Is there a higher incidence of malfunction? (I'm imagining the lines getting twisted up somehow without the warm embrace of a band to keep them in check)

When I searched dz.com I could only find very old threads about them.

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Info on these on a recent thread on uks here: http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk/cms/topic/23034-semi-stowless-d-bag/

I've ordered one of the http://www.compal.be/LazybagEN.html so hoping it will arrive soon.
Sky Switches - Affordable stills camera tongue switches and conversion adaptors, supporting various brands of camera (Canon, Sony, Nikon, Panasonic).

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Hi,

In Belgium we have two type's of "stowless POD" being made:

The LazyBag: http://www.compal.be/LazybagEN.html
They started without magnets but the more recent models are semi magnetic.

The mPod: http://www.pgasus.be/start.php?pg=text&item=mPOD
Fully magnetic design, this one is being made by our local DZ-rigger.

Personally i have been using the mPod since jump N°100 and for me the best thing i bought since i started :-) I like to jump 8-10 times a day an really love the "packing ease"!
I've used two different sizes for different conopy's ranging from Pilot 150 to VE and VC90. Used them in icon sport containers and in my new micron (ordered the micron with their "stowless bag"... used it for 2 weekends and mounted the mopod :-) ). Never had problems on openings (no unusual sh*t), i think i have 4 twists in 1300 jumps! Loads of people use them here in Schaffen and in Belgium (mix of both mpod and lazybag).

Some people may not like/trust em but everybody just has to make their own choices :-)

Cheers!

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1000+ Plus jumps and my infinity semi-stowless bag. Used it with Katanas and velocities of various sizes. Opening were much improved. The infinity, depending on the size of the bag, only has 2-4 locking stows and the rest of the line is s folded into a pouch. I love it so much i could never go back to full line stows.
(insert philosophical quote here)

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vanessalh

Thanks all! rtroup, awesome to hear that there is one for infinity (that's my rig). Where did you get yours?



call infinity it is the party bag option (I believe). With there bag you can use it as a normal bag or semi-stowless.

I have around 500 jumps with my semi-stowless bag and won't go back to any other bag.

Have a UPT semi-stowless in my wings and the infinity one in my infinity. I prefer the UPT bag over the infinity one though

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I have Vector stowless bags on both of my rigs (Vector/Katana and Javeline/Velo).

For me it is really just about one thing- it lowers the chances of having line twist before line stretch significantly. For me, this equates to lower probability of spinning line twist cutaways.

With the vector bags, and the "Free stow" bag I had before it, I would say that 99% of my openings start on heading with no twists. Getting to line stretch feels a little different (smoother...you don't feel the vibrations as the bands undstow), and I like that it seems much cleaner when packing without having so much line exposed in the bottom of the container.

To be honest, beyond that I don't notice much difference. Some say they notice the openings start much faster, but I can't say I notice that. I don't notice any change in how hard/soft the openings are. Packing is a little bit faster, but not enough to make an argument for spending the money on the bag.

I love mine, and always put them on my rigs when I can, but my main reason is simply to lower the likelihood that I'll have linetwist before line stretch

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piisfish

not all DBAgs are created equal, and they will not work properly with all containers



Can you explain? If the bag is the appropriate size/shape for a container, are you saying there is a potential problem based on the stowless nature of the bag?
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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chuckakers

***not all DBAgs are created equal, and they will not work properly with all containers



Can you explain? If the bag is the appropriate size/shape for a container, are you saying there is a potential problem based on the stowless nature of the bag?

Many/most of them change where the bulk of the lines are located. Combine that with the possibility that non-original mfg bags can have slight but important differences in the actual shape of the bag can mean that they don't pack up the same in the container.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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Hi Vanessa.

I'm pretty sure you were talking with me about that bag. I know I talked with several people about it while I was there. Nice jumping with you by the way.

I'm sending you a full review I wrote up about the UPT semi-stowless bag via email. It's just too long to post here.

I was one of the field test jumpers during the last year of development for that bag.

I absolutely love the openings I get with those bags.

Read the review and get with me if you have any questions.

Sandy Grillet

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.
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Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

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chuckakers

***not all DBAgs are created equal, and they will not work properly with all containers



Can you explain? If the bag is the appropriate size/shape for a container, are you saying there is a potential problem based on the stowless nature of the bag?some "super bomb proof" riser covers will not open at the correct moment with stow less/semi-stowless d-bags.
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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piisfish

******not all DBAgs are created equal, and they will not work properly with all containers



Can you explain? If the bag is the appropriate size/shape for a container, are you saying there is a potential problem based on the stowless nature of the bag?some "super bomb proof" riser covers will not open at the correct moment with stow less/semi-stowless d-bags.

Which ones? And did you hear that through the grapevine or the manufacturer(s) in question?
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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sundevil777

******not all DBAgs are created equal, and they will not work properly with all containers



Can you explain? If the bag is the appropriate size/shape for a container, are you saying there is a potential problem based on the stowless nature of the bag?

Many/most of them change where the bulk of the lines are located. Combine that with the possibility that non-original mfg bags can have slight but important differences in the actual shape of the bag can mean that they don't pack up the same in the container.

So it isn't the stowless bag that's the issue. It's the shape/dimensions of the bag itself. That is a problem whether using a stowless or traditional bag.

Assuming you are correct, it's also a classic case of too much main for too little container. Everyone wants to jump a lunchbox.
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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Quote

How do super thin HMA lines handle the extra friction from semi-stowless deployments? Has anyone seen unusual wear?



I think the stowless bag might wear out the lines a bit faster... I have HMA500 an do about 400 jumps on them... dunno how this compares to using a normal POD with the same lines though.

The son of the rigger who makes the mPOD is not using it on his new Peregrine because of the suuuuuper thin lines to avoid extra wear. He did use em with the HMA300 on his VC...

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chuckakers

*********not all DBAgs are created equal, and they will not work properly with all containers



Can you explain? If the bag is the appropriate size/shape for a container, are you saying there is a potential problem based on the stowless nature of the bag?

Many/most of them change where the bulk of the lines are located. Combine that with the possibility that non-original mfg bags can have slight but important differences in the actual shape of the bag can mean that they don't pack up the same in the container.

So it isn't the stowless bag that's the issue. It's the shape/dimensions of the bag itself. That is a problem whether using a stowless or traditional bag.

Assuming you are correct, it's also a classic case of too much main for too little container. Everyone wants to jump a lunchbox.

My case was definitely not due to a tight/stuffed situation. The problem was not at all that it was hard to close, it just didn't fit the same (fill in the corners of the container, and it was noticeable. The original bag was just right, and even after a 2nd attempt at getting the dimensions right, it just wasn't the same with the stowless.

It isn't so easy to make it just like the original/to fit just like the original. If the bag mfg has access to the original design specs or the original bag itself that would naturally help. Having just measurements provided by the owner may not be enough, as there can be subtle aspects to the design of the bag that won't be conveyed by length/width/thickness.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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pnuwin

How do super thin HMA lines handle the extra friction from semi-stowless deployments? Has anyone seen unusual wear?



I have HMA 500 lines on my Velocity and they show no unusual wear. I've helped a number of people order the bags and every Vector I sell gets the bag. None of those people have had any issues. I also talk to a lot of people at various DZs around the country and I've not heard of any wear problems.

One thing that helps is that the mouth of the bag - where the lines play out - is covered and lined with cotton material that greatly reduces the friction heat that you normally get with a synthetic fabric.

It was one of the things discovered during the testing of the bag.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.
.
Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

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Skydivesg

***How do super thin HMA lines handle the extra friction from semi-stowless deployments? Has anyone seen unusual wear?



I have HMA 500 lines on my Velocity and they show no unusual wear. I've helped a number of people order the bags and every Vector I sell gets the bag. None of those people have had any issues. I also talk to a lot of people at various DZs around the country and I've not heard of any wear problems.

One thing that helps is that the mouth of the bag - where the lines play out - is covered and lined with cotton material that greatly reduces the friction heat that you normally get with a synthetic fabric.

It was one of the things discovered during the testing of the bag.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.
.

Very informative - thanks!
Chuck Akers
D-10855
Houston, TX

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jumpwally

what does "correct moment" mean exactly ?

In sequence. They should open before the lines come out of the bag, not when the stows come off. I have seen and heard of line dumps, canopy strips and other weird openings.
I do use semi stowless bags and have no problems though.
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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I have many jumps on various stowless systems.
The UPT is my favorite, it's a version of the Berger bag.
Jerry Baumchen's system is also really great, there are a couple of very minor improvements i'd like to see.
I've jumped the magnetic bags, and have had mixed feelings on them. One of the very early brands, I had one very hard deployment that could have been the result of my packing technique, but that one deployment has left me a little gunshy. I've just ordered a magnetic bag, newer design, and hoping I like it as much as I like the UPT bags.

Stowless are great if packed properly. Deployments become smoother, linetwists are reduced, and some argue that they cause less wear on lines. They do slightly reduce bulk in the container/packtray.

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