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Obongo

newbie rigging question

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DSE

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In this particular case, please don't say that you would have preferred that he watch a vid to take things apart, put it back together and go jump it without somebody checking, face-to-face behind him.
These two things are not necessarily exclusive.
The OP could:
-Watch a video
-Read a manual
-Find an answer on the internet

And then have someone check it.


Obviously. As has been stated already.

***I'm not reading where the OP says "I want you to tell me so I can do it and not have someone check it.

Yes, and by the same token, you didn't read, "I want you to tell me so I can do it and have someone check it."

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Both you and Chris D need to take a timeout and stop with the straw scenarios and judgements.


Straw scenarios:D:D...kinda like you and others bringing up all the other extracurricular crap when the basic premise was "hands on with a rigger or experienced skydiver is best"?

You may want to take your own advice there.


What I really need to do is stop responding to the straws you guys are putting up.

Do you deny the value of "hands on with a rigger or experienced skydiver?"

If you don't. then all the rest of your posts were your 'straw'.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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It's amazing to me that you would defend and encourage immature temper tantrums. It's a big-boy sport. We need big-boy attitudes.



The word that most comes to mind here:



sanctimonious [sangk-tuh-moh-nee-uhs]
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: self-righteous
Synonyms: Pecksniffian, bigoted, canting, deceiving, false, goody-goody, holier-than-thou, hypocritical, insincere, pharisaical, pietistic, pious, preachy, self-satisfied, smug, stuffy, unctuous
Antonyms: humble, meek, modest
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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gowlerk

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It's amazing to me that you would defend and encourage immature temper tantrums. It's a big-boy sport. We need big-boy attitudes.



The word that most comes to mind here:



sanctimonious [sangk-tuh-moh-nee-uhs]
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: self-righteous
Synonyms: Pecksniffian, bigoted, canting, deceiving, false, goody-goody, holier-than-thou, hypocritical, insincere, pharisaical, pietistic, pious, preachy, self-satisfied, smug, stuffy, unctuous
Antonyms: humble, meek, modest



I agree. It fits your, and some other, posts well.

Got anything that adds value to the conversation?
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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popsjumper

***

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It's amazing to me that you would defend and encourage immature temper tantrums. It's a big-boy sport. We need big-boy attitudes.



The word that most comes to mind here:



sanctimonious [sangk-tuh-moh-nee-uhs]
Part of Speech: adjective
Definition: self-righteous
Synonyms: Pecksniffian, bigoted, canting, deceiving, false, goody-goody, holier-than-thou, hypocritical, insincere, pharisaical, pietistic, pious, preachy, self-satisfied, smug, stuffy, unctuous
Antonyms: humble, meek, modest



I agree. It fits your, and some other, posts well.

Got anything that adds value to the conversation?


In other words " I know you are but what am I?" What's next Pops? "Nnanananana I can't hear you?" You and Chris both need to grow up and learn to respect others.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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The original poster asked: How do yo dissconnect your main from the container."

I was the only one to respond with the correct answere. And that was: you need to pull your cutaway handle. :)





Many have pointed out the motives of the: " faulty questioner." Skydiving is not something you learn from the internet, sorry, again, no apologies. If you can't stand the advice, that's your problem. Don't shoot the messenger because you don't like what you hear.

Skydiving is about depending upon sticking to the plan and knowing what the other person is doing. If someone says they have a level of experience and then asks questions that not even a new newbie knows the answeres to then you face "the wrath." My life and the life of my friends depends upon this and I have every right to question anyone in any mannar I see fit to do so in order to achive this goal.


As far as Vigil customer service, I have no intention to apologize, nor am I backtracking in any way when I point out their conduct.

Here is a copy from the sticky section regarding their notice:

"Vigil had also been criticized in these forums for having modified the behaviour of those newer Vigils (v2.50), without notifying users or changing the manual. You can't tell someone to RTFM if the manual has an inaccurate description of the product's behaviour."


Apparently their are a few that feel that the pertinant point of "WITHOUT NOTIFYING USERS" is an acceptable way to do buisness?



ya I guess it's ok to make changes and then retroactivly notify everyone. That kind of makes up for the shitty manuel in the first place?

Many of us knew this was coming by this company, they played games in the first place, got called on it, and then they waited six monthes to make an anouncment. Apparently by waiting six months,...perhaps they thought we would forget?

Well guess what, we didn't forget.

But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

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katzas

I teach for a living--and the first thing I tell my students in the first class of the semester is that there is no such thing as a stupid question--at least not in MY classroom.



I agree.

However asking how the brakes work in a car when you've already been driving for a year isn't the brightest idea in the world... :D


Lets ask this - when did everyone here feel comfortable enough with their gear to disassemble their main from their risers and Dbag? That to me is the surprising part - that it's taken this long to ask the question.

For me it was covered as part of my packing & gear lessons that I took while it was too windy to jump. Probably around jump 15 - 20.

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yoink


Lets ask this - when did everyone here feel comfortable enough with their gear to disassemble their main from their risers and Dbag? That to me is the surprising part - that it's taken this long to ask the question.

For me it was covered as part of my packing & gear lessons that I took while it was too windy to jump. Probably around jump 15 - 20.



My next jump will be #90 and I've never been taught to do this. As my new gear is being assembled at the factory and we can't do demos out here, I may not ever separate my canopy. There's a good chance that when it is sold, it will be sold as a complete unit. Is there a good reason to regularly disassemble it, one that isn't best handled by an inspection by a master rigger at repack time? Clearly, my instructors at the 3 different dropzones on 3 different continents where I've trained have not considered this to be crucial in any way, and they definitely don't consider me a danger to myself or others because I've never done it.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

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JeffCa

***
Lets ask this - when did everyone here feel comfortable enough with their gear to disassemble their main from their risers and Dbag? That to me is the surprising part - that it's taken this long to ask the question.

For me it was covered as part of my packing & gear lessons that I took while it was too windy to jump. Probably around jump 15 - 20.



My next jump will be #90 and I've never been taught to do this. As my new gear is being assembled at the factory and we can't do demos out here, I may not ever separate my canopy. There's a good chance that when it is sold, it will be sold as a complete unit. Is there a good reason to regularly disassemble it, one that isn't best handled by an inspection by a master rigger at repack time? Clearly, my instructors at the 3 different dropzones on 3 different continents where I've trained have not considered this to be crucial in any way, and they definitely don't consider me a danger to myself or others because I've never done it.

When you pack your canopy, how to you know if it's correctly assembled and safe to jump if you don't know how it is supposed to be assembled? Last year my jump buddy caught a problem with one of his line sets on packing that could have killed him had he jumped them again. Knowledge is power.

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mr2mk1g

******
Lets ask this - when did everyone here feel comfortable enough with their gear to disassemble their main from their risers and Dbag? That to me is the surprising part - that it's taken this long to ask the question.

For me it was covered as part of my packing & gear lessons that I took while it was too windy to jump. Probably around jump 15 - 20.



My next jump will be #90 and I've never been taught to do this. As my new gear is being assembled at the factory and we can't do demos out here, I may not ever separate my canopy. There's a good chance that when it is sold, it will be sold as a complete unit. Is there a good reason to regularly disassemble it, one that isn't best handled by an inspection by a master rigger at repack time? Clearly, my instructors at the 3 different dropzones on 3 different continents where I've trained have not considered this to be crucial in any way, and they definitely don't consider me a danger to myself or others because I've never done it.

When you pack your canopy, how to you know if it's correctly assembled and safe to jump if you don't know how it is supposed to be assembled? Last year my jump buddy caught a problem with one of his line sets on packing that could have killed him had he jumped them again. Knowledge is power.

Well, assuming that I'm the only one using the gear, it should be assembled the same way it was the last time. Aside from checking for a visibly broken line or something, do canopies have a habit of disassembling and incorrectly reassembling themselves between jumps?

Anybody who has a problem with the fact that I've never done this can PM me. I'll give you the names of the 3 dropzones that trained me, and the 2 national certification organisations that have given me licences. You may then contact them and complain about why assembly of a canopy is not being taught. You may also ask why jumpers who do not know this are allowed to be in the sky, where they are apparently a threat to their own lives and the lives of others. I've had a lot of instructors come by and give me advice on packing, watching me pack, and not a single one has ever mentioned this issue. They obviously don't consider it important. This is probably because there don't seem to be a whole lot of incidents caused by it.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

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Most of replies in this thread have engaged in a game of broken telephone.

the OP asked how to disassemble his main from his rig. Assuming that he meant disconnect from his risers, and not cut away the risers, it really, really, really does not take a scientist, nor does it require even a GED to get that done.

Nowhere did the OP state that they will be connecting a main back up. So please don't conjure up any safety concerns about things not mentioned.

I very much agree with the people who had said that it's pathetic that someone had not bothered to learn or even take a 30 second look to see that something as simple as unscrewing a barrel link or unthreading a slink may not require an internet post.

And to entertain the few who think that everyone is tougher on the net than in real life - please meet me, I am no different from my online persona. What I do notice, is that many who ask dumb/ignorant/lazy questions on the net do not ask the same ones in person - which stands to deduce that they know that those questions are silly, and avoid face-to-face confrontations.

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There are plenty of things that can happen, slinks can come undone or fray, rapide links can come undone or bend, bridle attachments can wear out, cables can work out of their housings, etc. None of these things are generally blatantly obvious, but are easily noticed when inspected. Giving them a once over while packing is quick and can be easily integrated with your pack flow.

While we have reached an era where the dominant cause of incidents and fatalities has mostly shifted away from equipment failure, that's no excuse to be laissez-faire with the system that's going to save your life each jump. Using "it doesn't happen often" is a poor excuse, one time is one too many.

I don't care if you weren't taught it for your license. Learn it anyway.

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excaza

There are plenty of things that can happen, slinks can come undone or fray, rapide links can come undone or bend, bridle attachments can wear out, cables can work out of their housings, etc. None of these things are generally blatantly obvious, but are easily noticed when inspected. Giving them a once over while packing is quick and can be easily integrated with your pack flow.

While we have reached an era where the dominant cause of incidents and fatalities has mostly shifted away from equipment failure, that's no excuse to be laissez-faire with the system that's going to save your life each jump. Using "it doesn't happen often" is a poor excuse, one time is one too many.

I don't care if you weren't taught it for your license. Learn it anyway.



Cables can come out of housings? That IS part of the check I was taught.

I am hardly laissez-faire about my gear. My gear will be well-examined when I get my hands on it. I've already been PM'd once as a result of this thread from a rigger concerned about me, and he seems to have left that discussion impressed and well-convinced that I have my head screwed on properly when it comes to gear. For example, I've already read manuals for gear that I haven't even bought yet, all in preparation and research. But that doesn't mean y'all aren't completely blowing this thing out of proportion.

One time is one too many? So I should be checking for things that have NEVER happened to anybody else? What you're referring to are otherwise known as "freak occurrences", and cannot generally be anticipated or prepared for, pretty much by definition. If we check for everything that has ever happened or that could conceivably happen before every jump, we'd never get in the air. Shall I also check the stitching on the canopy after each jump? I'd have to learn all about stitching and maybe even get a rigger's certificate, but stitching can fail. Canopies blow apart and lines tear off. It doesn't happen all that often, but it does happen, and so to be laissez-faire about it is just wrong. Then there's the aircraft maintenance.....

Come on, honestly, how many incidents is this causing? If it isn't causing incidents, then it isn't anything to worry about, again pretty much by definition. That's why instructors and training organisations don't seem to give a damn about teaching it. You really need to be taking your complaints to the training organisations if you feel it is an important safety issue. But I'd suggest we have bigger problems with training, things that are actually causing incidents, such as poor or non-existent wingsuit training. And now I'm just being a broken record.

But the biggest problem I have with this thread is that somebody came here seeking this knowledge, and so many have treated him not just without respect, but with active disrespect.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

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Here's what happened to my friend:

[img]http://i16.photobucket.com/albums/b16/mr2mk1g/20120420_120409.jpg
[/img]

Caught on packing a rig he'd borrowed. Obvious problem of course and one anyone should spot with or without training (you'd hope... though perhaps not by someone who just can't be bothered with learning about their gear (edited to add: not directed at you)).

The point is though, it could have been spotted before it failed. He was damn lucky it didn't kill him on the jump on which it failed.

It could have been checked when packing for the jump on which it failed. He could have avoided the risk of it letting go in a swoop. Or if events turned out differently and it had let go when he performed a swoop... he could have avoided his own death.

It could also have been avoided if the person who owned the gear knew how much torque to put onto the barrel to minimise the chances of it working loose (too much is also bad by the way and can also lead to failure). This stuff is important.

At least the link is installed the right way up (yes, many will argue that there is a right way up and a wrong way up). That link is the right way up. Maybe that's why my mate didn't die. Probably a good idea if people learned that and why.

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But the biggest problem I have with this thread is that somebody came here seeking this knowledge, and so many have treated him not just without respect, but with active disrespect.



I essentially agree.

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JeffCa

For example, I've already read manuals for gear that I haven't even bought yet, all in preparation and research. But that doesn't mean y'all aren't completely blowing this thing out of proportion.


I find this strangely at odds with the paragraphs of hyperbole you're throwing out because people dare to suggest that you have the knowledge necessary to take 30 seconds (if that) during your packjob to inspect your gear.

Stowing your brakes? Check the links, brake stows & attachment.
Uncollapsing your slider? Check it over for damage or burrs on the grommets.
Cocking your pilot chute? Check the bridle & handle.
Bagging your canopy? Check the attachment points before you stuff it in.
Stowing your dbag? Check your cables and riser covers as you stow the risers.
Closing your container? Check your flaps, grommet, and closing loop.
Stowing your pilot chute? Check the pouch.

It's all trivial stuff, and you don't need to be a rigger to do it. They're not freak occurrences, gear wears out. I'm of the opinion that people should know their gear well enough to spot something before it becomes an issue, not after. I get that you don't feel the same way, so I won't bother with this any further.

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But the biggest problem I have with this thread is that somebody came here seeking this knowledge, and so many have treated him not just without respect, but with active disrespect.


I don't disagree. The pursuit of knowledge should never be met with some of the attitudes I've seen here, I don't care if the person has 2 jumps or 2000. If they're trying to learn their gear, just help them.

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Obongo

Wow these are the kind of responses I get for asking a simple question?

Obviously I could BS my way through it but I was hoping to find a tutorial that explains every step properly so I don't overlook anything. Forgive me for seeking advice on how to do something the right way.

I'll follow up on the one serious reply I received via PM about a youtube tutorial, which was the kind of thing I was looking for.

I don't think I'll be using this forum any more for advice since people here are clearly dickheads.




Ya dickheads that don't want our sport sullied by another do it yourself botch job.

From the get go any container manual has what you are looking for, so why do you persist in asking for the obvious, unless of course this was a setup from the get go???

Some questions tell us more about the Paul Harvey side of things than anything else.

My points and opinion still stand!

C

>:(


If your question is so simple why did yo ask it in the first place???
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

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