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Obongo

newbie rigging question

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Southern_Man

Maybe it is not worth much at this point but there are assembly instructions included in the various container manuals. If you did those in reverse...

If this is your first time disassembling a main canopy I advise getting hands on help. It is not terribly difficult but some things are best shown rather than read.



Thanks. I'll be receiving my first gear within a few months, but it will all be assembled and packed up at the container factory, so I won't get to observe the process. I'll be sure to take a look at the manual when the gear comes.

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

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The rapid link is kinda tricky the first time and most seem to be over tightened, you can see a bulge at the top of the fitting, that is what I consider the top, the wrench goes on the barrel fitting turning left against the rod or screw driver through link turning right. The slink needs to be rotated through the riser and then the tab be pulled up and over then unwound, the slink and or rapid link goes with the canopy, not the risers unless otherwise agreed upon.

Some folks use a non reusable "slink" that needs to be cutoff...

I really hope our brother from another mother knows how to cutaway...

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Don't let the skygods put you off. You asked a question--and got shat upon from a great height by many. I teach for a living--and the first thing I tell my students in the first class of the semester is that there is no such thing as a stupid question--at least not in MY classroom. Not asking another question because you got crapped on is far worse than having to endure the bullshit from those who would piss into the wind just to prove they can. Keep asking....it may save your life. And for the skygods out there--if you can't answer a question with a civil attitude--go piss into the wind--again.

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strife

Do some soft links need to be cut off, the PD ones I use are removable?



I haven't run into any personally, but that doesn't mean they don't exist.

Also of note, there is a video on installing PD Slinks here: http://vimeo.com/29783763

There is a soft links manual for Aerodyne here: http://www.flyaerodyne.com/download/SoftLinkManual.pdf

Very important that the O.P. has the right manual, information for his specific equipment. I put these links here for information only and again encourage anybody changing canopies for the first time to have hands on help.
"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

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Hi katzas,

Quote

Don't let the skygods put you off. You asked a question--and got shat upon from a great height by many. I teach for a living--and the first thing I tell my students in the first class of the semester is that there is no such thing as a stupid question--at least not in MY classroom. Not asking another question because you got crapped on is far worse than having to endure the bullshit from those who would piss into the wind just to prove they can. Keep asking....it may save your life. And for the skygods out there--if you can't answer a question with a civil attitude--go piss into the wind--again.



^ This.

It takes so little to be helpful and civil. We need more of that.

JerryBaumchen

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Obongo

I'll follow up on the one serious reply I received via PM about a youtube tutorial, which was the kind of thing I was looking for.



Yep...we need more learning from the internet.
Riggers and local experienced people need not apply.

So, all the people who suggested or told him to learn first-hand, hands-on with somebody qualified were ignored...it wasn't what he wanted to hear. We need less of that.

If patty-cake didn't work and tough love didn't work, it was a hopeless cause anyway.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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JeffCa

Thanks. I'll be receiving my first gear within a few months, but it will all be assembled and packed up at the container factory, so I won't get to observe the process. I'll be sure to take a look at the manual when the gear comes.


In the meantime, get with your rigger or an experienced person to show you the ins and outs if you don't know already..
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Your quote:

"never bothered to learn that stuff..."


Obliviously you have better things to do, no fucking apologies!

C

Go get a rigging book, read it and good riddance...

Seriously, I just want to discorage anyone from attempting to play with their risers and loops by doing it from a coloring book. But yo seem determined to do it anyway.

I also find it incredulous that you would even ask as compared with asking real people at your local DZ.


(Would ya all say the same thing if it was your Neurosturgeon looking for the How to do it book?)

Learning is always a worthy endevoer, practicing even better, knowing your students knowlege level and motivations: Important. But not this time. Hands on or not at all. Too easy to switch a riser or flunk the line continuity check, things like this are not in most canopy manuals, nor is how much force it takes to undo/ tighten toggle line attachments or how much force for slinks and or if other things need "tacking" or not.

Go find competent other, (period.)

There is absolutly no excuse for not knowing how to detach your main. No matter how ambiguous the question is phrased.
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

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ChrisD

Your quote:

"never bothered to learn that stuff..."


Obliviously you have better things to do, no fucking apologies!

C

Go get a rigging book, read it and good riddance...



It's likely there are oblivious, basic things you do each day (speaking English, for example) where you miss the very basics. It's less likely you're ripped up over it.

Many do not know exactly how their gear works, and that is unfortunate. Hopefully their DZ has ways and means of encouraging people to know more about their gear. Not every student driver is taught to change oil or tires, but it's unlikely they'd be called "stupid" for not knowing this.
Kudos to the OP for looking for more information, and nothing wrong with searching the web for information. It's one of the many paths to learn new things.

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DSE


Kudos to the OP for looking for more information, and nothing wrong with searching the web for information. It's one of the many paths to learn new things.


Yes, kudos.

I'm sure it was simply an error of omission when you forgot to emphasize that hands-on with a knowledgeable rigger or skydiver is best for learning.

I'm sure it was simply an error of omission when you forgot to emphasize that learning by video is not a means to an end in and of itself.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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popsjumper

***
Kudos to the OP for looking for more information, and nothing wrong with searching the web for information. It's one of the many paths to learn new things.


Yes, kudos.

I'm sure it was simply an error of omission when you forgot to emphasize that hands-on with a knowledgeable rigger or skydiver is best for learning.

I'm sure it was simply an error of omission when you forgot to emphasize that learning by video is not a means to an end in and of itself.

I'm sure it was an error in judgement that you alienated someone for seeking knowledge without first being aware of what resources they have access to, and quality of information they have access to.;)

You've tweaked on learning over the internet in several posts; you do realize you're encouraging and supporting the very institution you claim is not appropriate? Video, postings, social sites are all great channels from which we can all learn. It doesn't replace face-to-face testing, yet how many times have you also attacked what someone has learned face-to-face (hint; several).
So...if the face to face learning is shit, online video is shit, posts on a website are shit...where is one supposed to go?

BTW, the world trend is FLEX learning. Even in skydiving. Deal with it.
If the guy can watch a video, read a manual, and then articulate what he's seeing without ever having spoken to a rigger, is the information he possesses any less valuable?
Again, kudos to _anyone_ for seeking knowledge in whatever means possible.

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I can't believe the general level of disrespect shown over this small matter. It's like a bunch of internet sharks pouncing to correct the faulty questioner. I'm guessing not one of these people would act that way in person, but somehow it's just fine to talk like that on forum like this one. It's all good to act out your frustrations from the safety of your keyboard. What a lesson you have delivered, you should be soooo proud of your skills, you really showed just what you are made of here.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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gowlerk

I can't believe the general level of disrespect shown over this small matter. It's like a bunch of internet sharks pouncing to correct the faulty questioner. I'm guessing not one of these people would act that way in person, but somehow it's just fine to talk like that on forum like this one. It's all good to act out your frustrations from the safety of your keyboard. What a lesson you have delivered, you should be soooo proud of your skills, you really showed just what you are made of here.



In person is a totally different thing, I'm sorry you can't seem to understand this.

Perhaps instead of doing, once again, the very thing you are so vocal about, you instead make a nice little video of how to "disconnect your canopy from the container."


Tell ya what:

Here goes:


"Pull the fucking yellow thing on the right."

Feel better,

Ferris...

Anyone????

C
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

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Quote

In person is a totally different thing, I'm sorry you can't seem to understand this.



Yes Chris I suppose it must be so. Because if you acted in person like you do on this forum you would soon find yourself not welcome anywhere. I do not understand and I never want to understand why rude, disrespectful, boorish behavior is alright from behind a keyboard. It will never be alright with me to mistreat people like that.
Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

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DSE


I'm sure it was an error in judgement that you alienated someone...


Yes, and I've already acknowledged that.

Quote

It doesn't replace face-to-face testing,


You, of all people understand the value of face-to-face.

Quote

yet how many times have you also attacked what someone has learned face-to-face (hint; several).


You use "attacked" because you are unreasonably upset.
When they get bogus info, yes....just as we ALL should be doing...correcting.

Quote

So...if the face to face learning is shit,
online video is shit,
posts on a website are shit...


You use meaningless extremes because you are unreasonably upset.
You know as well as I do that none of those things are perfect.
And you know as well as I do that none of those things are shit.


Quote


If the guy can watch a video, read a manual, and then articulate what he's seeing without ever having spoken to a rigger, is the information he possesses any less valuable?


I do not believe that you have never seen someone do exactly that....and screw it up. The value of the information is there. He has nothing to do with that. What he does with it is the issue.

In this particular case, please don't say that you would have preferred that he watch a vid to take things apart, put it back together and go jump it without somebody checking, face-to-face behind him.


Quotes from my post to you...
Quote

"I'm sure it was simply an error of omission when you forgot to emphasize that hands-on with a knowledgeable rigger or skydiver is best for learning."


Do you not agree that hands-on with a knowledgeable rigger or skydiver is best for learning?

Quote

I'm sure it was simply an error of omission when you forgot to emphasize that learning by video is not a means to an end in and of itself.


Do you not agree that video is not a means to an end in and of itself?

Keep in mind we are talking about a young jumper.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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277 jumps
2 years in sport
"never bothered to learn that stuff "

Demonstrates a particular attitude towards skydiving safety.
A danger to himself and others.

Obviously the patty cake work over two years didn't work, ya think?
Sometime along the line ya' eventually have to man-up.
Hopefully it's before you hurt someone out of ignorance.
You guy guys can ride the high horse all you like if it makes you feel better....meanwhile his, and similar, attitudes will just go on, and on, and on.

I wonder what you would be saying if at your DZ he had killed one of your friends due to ignorance.

Hopefully, he's sitting there maturely thinking, "Ya' know, they are right. I should have learned how my gear works long before now. Thank God my delay hasn't caused anybody any harm."
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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JerryBaumchen

Hi katzas,

Quote

Don't let the skygods put you off. You asked a question--and got shat upon from a great height by many. I teach for a living--and the first thing I tell my students in the first class of the semester is that there is no such thing as a stupid question--at least not in MY classroom. Not asking another question because you got crapped on is far worse than having to endure the bullshit from those who would piss into the wind just to prove they can. Keep asking....it may save your life. And for the skygods out there--if you can't answer a question with a civil attitude--go piss into the wind--again.



^ This.

It takes so little to be helpful and civil. We need more of that.

JerryBaumchen



+1B|

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A danger to himself and others because he doesn't know how to disassemble his canopy? Can you be any more dramatic? I didn't realise there was a trend of jumpers going in because they didn't know how their canopy hooked to the risers. I'm not an instructor, but I've read a lot of the incidents forums and see a lot of, "if only he'd chosen a more suitable canopy", "if only he'd had a helmet", "if only he'd had a RSL", etc. I have not seen a whole lot of, "if only he knew how his rigger had connected his steering lines to the toggles", "if only he knew the difference between a slink and a rapid link", etc. Can you please point to all of the incidents caused by these dangerous jumpers who have never attached or detached a canopy by themselves, and have only had it done by a master rigger? Especially the ones in which they became a danger to others due to their ignorance, as you imply becomes the case.

You and Chris are way out of line. Chris is probably still upset about the way he got humiliated over the Vigil thing in that other thread, and wasn't even able to "man-up" and apologise properly. He's being as mean as I've ever seen somebody be to a person who totally didn't deserve it. Ironically, this forum is apparently the first place where he learned of the new Vigil parameters, though he chose to reject the news and attack the messenger instead.

As for you, popsjumper, I have no idea what your problem is. You're being completely nuts. Stop trashing this forum as a means of getting information. When I received a suggestion from my instructor to make a pretty aggressive choice of main canopy, I came here for further consultation. It's here where I learned that it was in fact too much for me, saw the Brian Germain chart, the Billvon checklist, etc. Don't assume that the best advice only comes from your DZ personnel, because sometimes it sucks.

And you know what? People can view stuff online AND learn it in person. I've learned to pack from several instructors, and also watched the PD pros pack on YouTube. Everybody does it differently. I learned something on the PD videos about the slider that nobody at my DZ had taught me.

There is a Gear and Rigging forum for a reason. And until Billvon posts a stickie at the top of this forum that says, "Please no newbie rigging questions here. Consult your rigger or read a rigging book, and be gone with you", we will continue to use it in this way.

And if you don't like it? I suggest you and Chris don't read this section of the site anymore.

Who can tell me, what is the USPA's recommendation or BSR for grounding jumpers who don't know how their canopy connects to and disconnects from the risers? If it's such a safety issue, DZ's around the globe should be grounding jumpers who can't pass a practical test. As nobody at my DZ seems to think it's an issue even worth mentioning, and as popsjumper is against following advice received on the internet over that received from one's home DZ, I guess I can safely ignore him, right?

"So many fatalities and injuries are caused by decisions jumpers make before even getting into the aircraft. Skydiving can be safe AND fun at the same time...Honest." - Bill Booth

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Quote

In this particular case, please don't say that you would have preferred that he watch a vid to take things apart, put it back together and go jump it without somebody checking, face-to-face behind him.



These two things are not necessarily exclusive.
The OP could:
-Watch a video
-Read a manual
-Find an answer on the internet

And then have someone check it. I'm not reading where the OP says "I want you to tell me so I can do it and not have someone check it.
Who is 'unreasonably upset?" I'm laughing at most of what you posted here, because I can picture you hunched over a keyboard pounding harder on the keys as if that'll make readers understand your words better.
Both you and Chris D need to take a timeout and stop with the straw scenarios and judgements.
A guy asked a question, the complete reason for which most of us are clueless. Instead of providing answers, it turns into
"you don't know to do this by this date? You must be an idiot."
"Attacked," "jumped on," "redirected with vitriol," "shamed..." All fit. Chose your poison, but I'm sure not "upset.":D

I'm embarrassed for the OP's treatment over an innocuous post.

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JeffCa

A danger to himself and others because he doesn't know how to disassemble his canopy? ...


It's not uncommon that attitudes play across the board and not be limited to one specific area, yes. In fact, it's quite typical. If the one neglected to learn something so basic as gear maintenance, it's quite likely that one has neglected other areas of importance.

Quote

As for you, popsjumper, I have no idea what your problem is. You're being completely nuts. Stop trashing this forum as a means of getting information.


No problem at all. There are those who will beat around the bush and there are those who will man-up and face problems head on. If that is being 'complete nuts', then you are free to believe that.

You, and others, didn't like the tone? Fine.
It seems that the bandwagon clique allows only one method of dealing with these types of problems. Well, that's a mistake.

Since you and others have focused on a single point and have problems reading what is written and acknowledging the basic premise that face-to-face is the best method for learning the type of process the OP was asking about, you can continue to trash the thread all you want, eh?

You guys, in your eagerness to justify your point, have gone waaaaay out there stretching for something and being awfully presumptuous.

For example, out of "best learned hands on with a rigger or local skydiver", you tried to branch out with:
- videos are good for learning
- face-to-face is not the only method
- internet is good for learning
- ....and the all the other 'dramatics'

Meh, it's typical in DZ.com.

Quote

Don't assume that the best advice only comes from your DZ personnel, because sometimes it sucks.


This is true. However, it's generally, and by far most commonly, true that locals provide good advice. Every medium has times when it sucks but I've already indicated that.

Quote

And you know what? People can view stuff online AND learn it in person.


Absolutely! Point made. Surely you don't believe that online learning is a means to an end, do you? Of course not...but I've already indicated that.

Quote


..."Please no newbie rigging questions here. Consult your rigger or read a rigging book, and be gone with you", we will continue to use it in this way.


...there's some dramatics.

Quote

...popsjumper is against following advice received on the internet over that received from one's home DZ, I guess I can safely ignore him, right?


You have that exactly right.
You can ignore me or anybody. That's your decision to make.


Tough bandwagon crowd looking for blood regardless of the admission that I could have handled it differently.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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It's amazing to me that you would defend and encourage immature temper tantrums. It's a big-boy sport. We need big-boy attitudes.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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