jzzsxm 0 #1 April 30, 2013 Flipping through the May edition of Parachutist and saw a full-page ad for something called the "Wings Reserve Boost System." It looks, essentially, like a Wings-compatible Skyhook equivalent and Sunrise says you can add it to any new Wings order or retrofit previous containers. I've googled around and can't find any mention of it anywhere. Has anybody seen it? Jumped it? Can you shed light on what exactly it is or does? Thanks! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #2 April 30, 2013 Yes, it is Eric Fradet's interlock system and was developed for use with the Plexus tandem system, but also works on the sport Wings. There is a little information on a threat in the Tandem forum about the Plexus. It is new enough that they do not really have any marketing materials developed yet they told me. They sent me the packing directions for it."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
TracyS 0 #3 April 30, 2013 Back before PIA 2013, I was talking with someone at Sunrise about my container. He told me then that it was, essentially, their version of a Skyhook. He also told me that it was already available, but that they has not announced its availability publicly. IIRC, they were waiting for PIA to announce it. IIRC, he said the price was somewhere around $250 to retrofit it to a container.Canopies must all be female. If I treat mine good, she gives me a good ride. If I slap her in the bag, she will dump me like a turd. Courtesy of PRE7117, love that line. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,311 #4 May 1, 2013 Hi Southern, Quote it is Eric Fradet's interlock system I have seen the Boost system, and it does have 'some' things in common such as it uses a pin. I have had one version of Eric's system & I can assure that the boost is substantially different. According to some correspondence with the folks at Wings, it is not Eric's system. It was in an email so I will keep the details to myself. It might be like women, some like blonds & some like redheads; but they all do the same thing ( hopefully ). JerryBaumchen PS) From what I see, the Boost seems like a nice system; very simple in design & can be retrofitted to earlier rigs, which is a plus. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woppyvac 0 #5 May 1, 2013 Now this is something I'll have to investigate....Woot Woot! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 613 #6 May 1, 2013 One major difference - between Jerry's RAX and the BOOST system - is that RAX requires an extra flap (inside the reserve container) while the pocket for the BOOST is sewn to the freebag. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
woppyvac 0 #7 May 1, 2013 are there instructions available for this?Woot Woot! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,311 #8 May 1, 2013 Hi woppy, I was on their website yesterday regarding some other stuff and found nothing about it there. I would suggest getting on to their website & using the 'Contact Us' option. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 36 #9 May 1, 2013 Hi TracyS, Quote IIRC, he said the price was somewhere around $250 to retrofit it to a container When I asked Rick about that, he said :"If you have a Wings with an RSL, all you have to do is send the RSL lanyard and the freebag to us. There's nothing that has to be done on the rig." The price was 125 $ ex. shipping. As far as I can remember, the price of the system will be 200$ when you order it with a new rig, but don't quote me on this "My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #10 May 1, 2013 Quoteare there instructions available for this? Yes. They are not on the website. Call and they can send them to you"What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ericfradet 0 #11 May 1, 2013 According to some correspondence with the folks at Wings, it is not Eric's system. _____________________________________________ Sorry Jerry, but I can definetly tell : watching the "Boost packing instruction" this is my design, there are many différents ways to realize the interlock but the Boost system falls Under my patent, for the same reason in the past I already forced Mirage to not use the DRX without an agreement and I will do the same with Wings...I am not very happy with manufacturers using other people ideas to make buisness with it...I would rather recommand them to do it with someone else ! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #12 May 1, 2013 Quote Hi Southern, Quote it is Eric Fradet's interlock system I have seen the Boost system, and it does have 'some' things in common such as it uses a pin. I have had one version of Eric's system & I can assure that the boost is substantially different. According to some correspondence with the folks at Wings, it is not Eric's system. It was in an email so I will keep the details to myself. It might be like women, some like blonds & some like redheads; but they all do the same thing ( hopefully ). JerryBaumchen PS) From what I see, the Boost seems like a nice system; very simple in design & can be retrofitted to earlier rigs, which is a plus. I have no opinion whether it is or isnt'. I did not ask Wings if it was. Eric claimed it was on the other thread. I will leave that to other people to sort out."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,311 #13 May 1, 2013 Hi eric, Quote Sorry Jerry Nothing to be sorry about. I made no claim, merely passed on some info that was provided to me. My son is an attorney here in the USA, would you like his email address? JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
eric.fradet 17 #14 May 2, 2013 My son is an attorney here in the USA, would you like his email address? JerryBaumchen ____________________________________________________ ha ha ha ! I hope I won't need him !....but I have to say : it is a hard life for an individual to get respect from manufacturers (specially milles away), it won't be the same if I was an US industrial with a long beird (no offense for him), cheers.. eric Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deimian 43 #15 May 2, 2013 As an owner of a Wings I am highly interested in this, but I lack the experience to understand pros and cons to make a decision. How does is compare to Skyhook? It looks like the only downside of Skyhook is spinning mains. Does the same applies to this MARD? Any extra bad side or good side? Is there any manufacturer implementing something similar? I though the only MARD in use in sport rigs was Skyhook. Could it happen that the loop attaching the reserve bridle to the RSL lanyard gets trapped for whatever reason when going directly for silver, leaving the pilot chute attached to the rig and preventing it from pulling out the free bag? I can't think of any way this could happen, but maybe some of you have more imagination than me :-P. Maybe the tension and friction of the MARD loop can prevent the pin from releasing, like in a pilot chute in tow? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,311 #16 May 2, 2013 Hi Deimian, QuoteI lack the experience to understand pros and cons to make a decision. Might I suggest that you begin studying this issue. You could start with the poster directly above; and he is close ( France ). Also, look here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aqxjHOSKTT0 Good luck ( and keep asking questions ), JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 613 #17 May 3, 2013 All MARDs - both pin type and hook type - are a race between the cutaway main and the reserve pilot chute. Whichever extraction force wins, pulls the reserve freebag to line extension. For example, if the reserve pilot-chute wins, the race, the Skyhook lanyard slips off the Skyhook, resulting in a normal reserve deployment. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deimian 43 #18 May 3, 2013 Thank you for your answers. Maybe I didn't express myself correctly when I said that I lack the experience. I'm indeed not very experienced, but I know what a MARD is, and what it is designed for. After seeing the Wings Boost packing instructions I think I have a clear picture of how it works. But what I tried to say is that I can't envision how it can fail. I don't have the experience to close my eyes and think in a situation where the Boost will make things worse, and a jumper would be safer without it. Situations were the MARD does not operate as designed (not detaching from the bridle if it should do it, or twisting the reserve for instance). That doesn't mean that such situations do not exist. My question is, does somebody envision such situation? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Divalent 111 #19 May 3, 2013 So I'm familiar (conceptually) with the Skyhook method of attaching to the reserve bridle and how it operates when reserve is launched directly vs via an RSL after a cutaway. (A cantelevered hook attached about midway in the reserve bridle, and (in short) if the reserve PC pulls, it disengages the skyhook). How do the other methods do it? IOW, specifically what mechanism/device attaches the riser/RSL to the reserve bridle, and how does it disengage when the reserved is fired directly? Wings boost method? RAX method? Fradet method? TIA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,311 #20 May 3, 2013 Hi Divalent, Take a look at the attached photo; this is of the previous version of the RAX System but will show what you are asking. On the left is the 2" bridle coming from the d-bag, on the right is the 2" bridle going to the pilot chute. Then you see the white lanyard that goes from the red RAX device up to what would be your RSL. When you simply pull your reserve ripcord, the bridle moves to the left when the reserve pilot chute is out and pulling on the bridle, this then pulls the red RAX device to the left, disengaging the pin that holds everything together when it is being used as a MARD system. The red tab that is in the red pocket ensures that the other portion of the device stays put so that the pin can be released. I could send you a mockup to study if you would like. I only ask that you return it, as some have not been returned. Right now I am a little short on mockups as I have three of them out for potential mfrs to study for possible inclusion on their systems. Did this help answer your question? If not, drop me a line via email & I'll try to explain further. IMO the Boost works the same way, a pin releases when the pilot chute is launched; but the pin is there to hold everything together when launched via the RSL/MARD device. JerryBaumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #21 May 3, 2013 Not saying this is a likely scenario, just playing what if here. Say you had a horse shoe malfunction on the main. So let's say you pull the cutaway and the riser manages to pull the pin and extract the tab. If I'm understanding this right in theory you could be towing the reserve pilot chute and bag from the RSL to the main? Even if I'm understanding this right I will concead that this is an odd ball scenario. Whether or not it could happion would be totally dependent on the lengths and geometry involved. But say you got a line around a flap, at the top of the riser, RSL side. Nasty mal. Cut away. You are now basically hanging from this flap/riser. As the riser extends it pulls the tab. Now all forces in any direction are carried by the loop and every thing is towing from the flap. If I'm miss understanding how the system works please correct me. And I agree that there are a lot of "if's" in that. Even if I'm right it's a really odd ball kind of scenario. I just see the movement towards mards and things like this as adding a lot of complexity. That adds potential failure modes. I mean we really didn't think a bag falling out till that tandom pair killed the fuck out of them selves with that sky hook. Who would have ever thought they would have wound up in that corner of the envelope. What I'm describing is just as odd but something like that happioned, or so we think, to a jumper here in TX sans mard. Any system is a compermise between choices. In the end you wind up trying to pick the options that will kill the fewest people. And people will die there's no question about that. But we do try to pick the pathes that will give you the best chances of survival. It bugs me some times when people in their efforts to sell their ideas/products refuse to acknowlage the other side of the scale and I'm speaking in general here. Mostly they just don't want to scare people but that's not the best way to make informed decisions. And for the record I'm not strictly opposed to mards. In fact I'm a big proponent of them in some cases. Like tandoms. Yes, I use an example of a tandom fatality and then turn around and advocate that all tandams should have some form of mard system. It's not hypocrocy, it's the scale thing again. I think they're worth it. Just tossing it out there. Now tell me why I'm stupid. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JerryBaumchen 1,311 #22 May 4, 2013 Hi Lee, Quote Now tell me why I'm stupid. Nope, not going to do that. Now about your typing/spelling prowess?????? Quote the riser manages to pull the pin and extract the tab. The geometry simply will not allow the riser/RSL/RAX lanyard to pull the pin out. If you had one in your hands you would easily see this. Quote But say you got a line around a flap Probably no different than if you got a line around a flap with any standard RSL or without any RSL; you are in deep doo-doo. Just my personal opinion. Quote It bugs me some times when people in their efforts to sell their ideas/products refuse to acknowlage the other side of the scale and I'm speaking in general here. I think it is extremely important that any jumper(s) learn & understand the available features of the gear that they intend to jump. I consider every safety device, going all the way back to the diaper, to be a compromise; a diaper could hang-up and kill you. Most people ( I think ) will go with those features that they have determined that will offer the best possible of chances in the most probable of situations. I do not know but I do not think your airbag in your car is guarenteed; I would not drive a car without using my seatbelt and just rely on the airbag to save me. And I always use a seatbelt; I'm alive twice over because of them. You can do everything right and still get killed intentionally jumping out of an airplane; you can even get killed when unintentially jumping from an airplane. As with Divalent above, he was asking questions wanting to learn more about these things. GOOD FOR HIM!!!! JerryBaumchen PS) To those of you who would like info from current users of the RAX System, I earlier ( somewhere ??? ) posted a listing of current mfrs who are putting it on their rigs; drop them a line and see what they say about their testing of the system. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites