Line stow question

[ChrisHoward 8]

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You can coil up all the spare line after the locking stows in the bottom of the main tray and have perfectly fine openings.

Just because you can get away with something it doesn't mean that you should be doing it.

[DocPop 1]

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You can coil up all the spare line after the locking stows in the bottom of the main tray and have perfectly fine openings.

Just because you can get away with something it doesn't mean that you should be doing it.

Hence the disclaimer I added two days before you posted this.

My point was that non-locking stows do nothing to "stage" the opening.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[ChrisHoward 8]

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You can coil up all the spare line after the locking stows in the bottom of the main tray and have perfectly fine openings.

Just because you can get away with something it doesn't mean that you should be doing it.

Hence the disclaimer I added two days before you posted this.

My point was that non-locking stows do nothing to "stage" the opening.

And again you would be wrong. Openings can easily be influenced by line stows, good and bad. You don't feel the need to use them then great. But don't go around falsely informing people of the uses/purposes/benefits of line stows.
And I did notice you slip in that neat little caveat after your 7 posts of assuring people that line stows are next to useless.

[DocPop 1]

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And I did notice you slip in that neat little caveat after your 7 posts of assuring people that line stows are next to useless.

My edit did not change that opinion.

It stated that free-stowing in the pack tray was not something I recommend.

I chose the words I wrote carefully, perhaps you could read them as carefully.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[Sky_doggy 0]

Hi,

Only having jumped for a couple of seasons I freely admit I don't know "shit from a shovel" and I am sure that my questions reflect this.

I have read a lot of the threads on tube stows versus rubber bands, stowless and semi stowless bags and watched UPT's video clips for their semi stowless bags.

I concluding that the first two stows need to be neat & tight and the remaining ones just have to be tidy and even in tension. I would rather not have to do a double twist of all the bands, it is a bit of a pain and just increases the frequency of them breaking. Actually semi stowless bag seems rather attractive to me.

Your comments of "More BS. When you gonna realize that you just don't know what you don't know? Evidently bag locks are only caused by locking stows? " tell me that I am indeed missing something here?

Can further educate me on this?

Thanks

[popsjumper 2]

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.. Evidently bag locks are only caused by locking stows? "

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tell me that I am indeed missing something here?

Can further educate me on this?

Thanks

Sloppy line stows could cause lines from one bight getting tangled with those of another bight and stopping the sequence....bag lock. Yes, It has happened.

You'll note too that tension knots could also be involved in this scenario.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[Sky_doggy 0]

Thanks. John Le Blanc who probably knows more about the topic than most of us have forgotten is quite adamant that the stows need to be tight so I am not about to do differently.

With that said I still can't reconcile how lines that are put neatly in place with loose stows is any different to how a semi stowless bag works, or how is reserve canopy is packed.

When I watch the part of Le Blanc's YouTube clip where he measures how much it takes to release the stow you can see the bag rock on the table which seems to make the argument that the stows can de stabilize the bag during deployment. Perhaps I am just opening up a perennial debate but I'd be interested in your thoughts.

Thanks

[popsjumper 2]

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...With that said I still can't reconcile how lines that are put neatly in place with loose stows is any different to how a semi stowless bag works, or how is reserve canopy is packed.

Well, you're going to get some different POVs on this. One POV is that loose stows on a bag can lead to more than one problem....I believe JL talks about it in his video. Take his word for it as, IMO, he's both knowledgeable and trustworthy. He can explain it better than I can.
-out of sequence release and all the problems attendant to that.
(line strip, bag strip, hard openings, etc.)

IMO, no stows is better than unbalanced and/or loose ones....as long as your using a semi-stowless bag and not free-stowing.

I seem to recall somewhere in the back of my mind that one of the reasons that the stowless reserve bag came about was one resolution to the unequal line stow/release problems.

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When I watch the part of Le Blanc's YouTube clip where he measures how much it takes to release the stow you can see the bag rock on the table which seems to make the argument that the stows can de stabilize the bag during deployment.

Indeed it can...which is the whole point about stow symmetry.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[hajnalka 0]

I haven't posted anything in forever, but want to share my thoughts on this one.

I've seen several baglocks caused by messy, long non-locking stows: I haven't seen any at the locking stows.

Agree that I would have loved to hear John LeBlanc talk about stowless or semi-stowless main d-bags.

Obviously the main PC is a big factor during deployment.

Having casually read over the thread, I agree with what this 'doc' guy is saying:

Locking stows are important. Keeping the rest of the lines organized is important ... but tension and how they release, not so much.

You cannot compare freestowing lines in a container to a stowless bag. Totally different deployments going on.

To the OP: Don't worry about unused stow bands. They won't interfere with anything. Keep your non-locking stows tight, short and even.

[Skydivesg 6]

I'm not responding to any one in particular but thought I would add something to the semi stowless bag info.

This link is some stuff I posted in 2011 regarding double wrapping locking stows and some other stuff.

Take a look if you care.

Dropzone.com Skydive Forums: Skydiving: Gear and Rigging: stowless D-Bag

I now have 1100-1200 jumps on the semi stowless bag with no issues and several thousand jumps double wrapping every stow. No malfunctions of any sort.


Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.
.

Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be.

[popsjumper 2]

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Having casually read over the thread, I agree with what this 'doc' guy is saying:

Locking stows are important. Keeping the rest of the lines organized is important ... but tension and how they release, not so much.

You may want to watch John LeBlanc's video then argue with him about tension and release.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[piisfish 135]

stowless/semi-stowless bags are not all created equal.
Plus the opening condition of your riser covers do also come in play.

scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

[DocPop 1]

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Sloppy line stows could cause lines from one bight getting tangled with those of another bight and stopping the sequence....bag lock. Yes, It has happened.

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You'll note too that tension knots could also be involved in this scenario.

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IMO, no stows is better than unbalanced and/or loose ones....as long as your using a semi-stowless bag and not free-stowing.

So after all your calling BS you really do agree that linestows just have the potential to cause problems and going without is entirely acceptable.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

[DougH 270]

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So after all your calling BS you really do agree that linestows just have the potential to cause problems and going without is entirely acceptable.

The problem is that you regurgitate second hand information without including necessary information that is vital in the context of what you are spewing.

Your blanket statement that going without line stows is entirely acceptable is a stupid fucking comment, unless you have the common sense to inform your audience that you still need a way to contain the lines to avoid potentially fatal problems like lines hitching on closing flaps or closing loop anchors.

You aren't impressing anyone here that knows anything with your posts, and your far from helping anyone that doesn't have enough knowledge to know better.

I personally think your just out to entertain yourself, but maybe you should stop and think about the fact that you half assed posts could put other newbies at risk.

"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall"
=P

[popsjumper 2]

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So after all your calling BS....

You still have no clue as to what spoutings you made were BS, do you?

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....you really do agree that linestows just have the potential to cause problems and going without is entirely acceptable.

You'll note that I struck out your little twists of the facts.


Nice try. Now, please go away.

My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

[DocPop 1]

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Nice try. Now, please go away.

You don't get away with it that easily

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So after all your calling BS....

You still have no clue as to what spoutings you made were BS, do you?

So again, enlighten me, oh Great Teacher.

"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA