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pre7117

Sabre2 150 Vs 170?

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Hey guys wondering if you might be able to throw me some info. Wondering what I might be looking at going from a Sabre2 170 to a 150. Been on a 170 for about 450 jumps and dont have any issue with landing and flying it. Going to a 150 will put me at 1.5wl, kind of worried about it, Will I be looking at a huge difference?
HELLFISH 429
POPS 11113

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Why do you want to downsize?

Why are you worried about downsizing?

Answers to those two questions might help people understand better how to give you advice.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." -P.J. O'Rourke

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Just bought all new gear and have been planning on downsizing since last season. Im not very worried, just got the butterflies thinking about it. I just want to know if anyone has used the same canopies at the same wing loading and what they can tell me.
HELLFISH 429
POPS 11113

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I did something similar on Sabre2's at about that wing loading. They turn a bit quicker, dive a bit more and fly a bit faster. It took me a couple of jumps to figure out how to stop it so I didn't have to run when carving it in on nil wind days and I increased my final turn altitude a bit to compensate for the increased dive but apart from that, it wasn't a problem.

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Ive jumped my 170 in 5-10 downwind many times with no problems and can land it where I want on every jump. I was told that the 150 and smaller take me to hi performance. I went from a 230 to a 210 to a 190 and down to a 170 and only saw a big difference from the 190 to 170. If its about the same I wont have any issues.
HELLFISH 429
POPS 11113

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OK, I'll take a stab at it. Probably the best advice would be to do a search for the volumes of material on here that have been written on the effects of increasing wing loading. There are even more posts about WHETHER folks should downsize. That is a different question so if you find that a thread is getting mired down with that, skip to a different one.

If you want to try it, put on some weights. Load up to where your wing loading on your current canopy is around 1.5. It will be a different animal, but not unfamiliar.

You can do this but be smart about it. Your margin of error gets a little bit smaller. The canopy will fly faster. It will be a little twitchier in flight. It won't be a huge difference but it will be there and you'll need to fly it a little more actively.

To make this work you will have to be diligent about the things that already make for a safe skydive. Work out your pattern in advance and stick as close as you can to that pattern. Don't do big movements close to the ground. Actively fly it and fly it all the way to the ground. Land with your wing level.

This is (hopefully) all stuff you have heard before. It just becomes more important as you downsize. The way to do well with this is to have the mindset that you are going to be a master at the basics.


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Just bought all new gear and have been planning on downsizing since last season. Im not very worried, just got the butterflies thinking about it. I just want to know if anyone has used the same canopies at the same wing loading and what they can tell me.

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Have you taken a canopy course? Do you know what the sweet spot is/can you constantly find it? Have you Demo'd one yet at that size. If the answer is Yes to those questions... and you prefer the downsized ride & LANDING then the decision should be clear. :D
Woot Woot!

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I did that downsize at about 50 jumps total and while it was noticeably faster, it was nothing I couldn't handle.

PD sizes its canopies so that a single size downsize is perfectly manageable for someone who is competent on the larger size.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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I went from a 230 to a 210 to a 190 and down to a 170 and only saw a big difference from the 190 to 170. If its about the same I wont have any issues.



I progressed from a Hornet 210 (very similar to Sabre2) to a Hornet 190 to a Sabre2 170 and felt the difference a little more each time. When I downsized to a Sabre2 150 the difference felt very much more significant, particularly on input responsiveness. I was at 1.4 on the 150.

I was about 46 when I downloaded and had ~500 jumps. I put about 100 jumps on it and never got comfortable that I could downwind it into a tight out... and that was kind of a deal breaker for me at my canopy skill level... hard to tell for anyone else who may be a better pilot, etc.

I traded it back for my 170. I'm a lot more comfortable on that. YMMV.

Why not see if you can demo / borrow one before you commit?
Owned by Remi #?

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Why do you want to downsize?

Why are you worried about downsizing?

Answers to those two questions might help people understand better how to give you advice.



:)
Perhaps if you knew why you wanted to downsize?
When you avoid answering one of the most down to earth, matter of fact individuals here, who has your interests at heart, this is something that I notice...

the questions are relevant, spot on, and important, you apparently either don't understand or are choosing to ignore them???

Just a questiion? ;)
C
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

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Perhaps if you knew why you wanted to downsize?
When you avoid answering one of the most down to earth, matter of fact individuals here, who has your interests at heart, this is something that I notice...

the questions are relevant, spot on, and important, you apparently either don't understand or are choosing to ignore them???



You know, a guy with 200-300 jumps who's asking for input on jumping a canopy at 1.5 wing loading deserves this approach. A guy with 800 jumps who's asking opinions about jumping a 150 at 1.5 W/L deserves some practical input.
Owned by Remi #?

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:)
I get your point, I really do, but also consider individuals with the number of jumps yo have mentioned,...

Why are they askin?

I'm considering even askin if he/she has taken or is considering a canopy course, but aparently asking that would be too much??? (and it has already been pointed out, and he didn't answere)
:)
Other considerations also include the fact that I'm a little fuzzy abvout his exit wt., if he is figurring on a 220 + Lbs this is pushing the sabre 2 limit's max reccommended? Perhaps at this point other canopies may be a better choice than a heavely loaded sabre2?? Any thoughts about that?
But what do I know, "I only have one tandem jump."

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Ok, I think I was misunderstood. The question was for people who have flown both sizes in the Sabre 2 and could give me some input in comparing them. This was not ment as a should I downsize question. I am downsizing and I don't want to be surprised on my first jump. I was wondering if they noticed a slight or huge difference. No disrespect towards anyone, I was working when I posted and couldn't get back to reply.
HELLFISH 429
POPS 11113

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I am downsizing and I don't want to be surprised on my first jump. I was wondering if they noticed a slight or huge difference.



To add to what I wrote yesterday, the jump from 170 to 150 was bigger than from 190 to 170, but not huge.

As with any new canopy, plan to pull high on your first few jumps and put it though its paces in clear airspace. The information gained up high on flare technique, stall points, sweet spot etc will mean that your first landing won't be the first time you have asked this canopy to plane out and slow down.
"The ground does not care who you are. It will always be tougher than the human behind the controls."

~ CanuckInUSA

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Thanks for the information, this helps.
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I am downsizing and I don't want to be surprised on my first jump. I was wondering if they noticed a slight or huge difference.



To add to what I wrote yesterday, the jump from 170 to 150 was bigger than from 190 to 170, but not huge.

As with any new canopy, plan to pull high on your first few jumps and put it though its paces in clear airspace. The information gained up high on flare technique, stall points, sweet spot etc will mean that your first landing won't be the first time you have asked this canopy to plane out and slow down.


HELLFISH 429
POPS 11113

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I will 2nd what Doc said.

I transitioned from a Sabre 2 170 to a Sabre 2 150 and then to my current Sabre 2 135 loaded at 1.45.

I found the 170 to 150 transition to be bigger than the 150 to 135, but not by much, and it may be due to the fact that I had more jumps on the 150 than the 170 when I downsized, so that affected things.

I did find the 135 to be quite a bit twitchier than the larger canopies with the brakes stowed, if it opened off heading it tended to keep turning longer.

Seth
It's flare not flair, brakes not breaks, bridle not bridal, "could NOT care less" not "could care less".

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