kingmonkeeking 0 #1 November 10, 2002 Howdy Folks, I've only got about 100 skydive type jumps but I still really dig my military jumps. Over seas now so I haven't done one in six months but I think I miss them more than the normal stuff. Of course I'd never except the risk level for a civilian jump but it's work so that all goes out the window. I love coming out of the bird at 140 knots and being able to distinguish the hands on the guy standing by the pannel. Any consenters? Any advice on flying the mandated body position, it seems like I had realy good luck using my elbows on the last few. What about getting clean exits with a 90 lb. ruck? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #2 November 10, 2002 It's been about 25 years since I've made an army jump. I'd love to make another one. I jumped a PAE bag once that had way over a 100 lbs. in it once. The exit went okay, but it was hard shuffling to the door with it. We were trained to keep elbows in tight on exit, but I can't see any problems having them out, as long as you have a good exit and de-arch properly. I remember one jump when I had a really light rucksack, exiting out of the side doors of a C-130. Somehow I did a back loop on exit and my feet and ruck went through my risers. This put quite a twist in both risers and landed it that way without pulling my reserve. After that I was much more careful about having a good body position presented to the prop blast. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #3 November 11, 2002 Clean exits were definately something I had to learn. I was a bit paranoid of hitting the airplane for the first 10 or 20 jumps. Once I became a skydiver it helped out a lot. I learned a lot more about flying my body. The best way to exit out of a side door is to just calmly step off at a 45 Deg angle. Don't let your feet hang down too far. You almost want to hop off like you were going to sit down on a couch. After that....I used to use my hands to help me get stable. Somehow I ended up on my side once or twice which isn't terrible but if you stick a hand out you can get back butt to earth like you should be. Tailgates.......definately go off in a sitting position with your feet STRAIGHT out in front of you. If you let your feet hang down the wind/S/L will give you whiplash as the wind pushes your feet up and then the S/L whips you back the opposite direction. I made that mistake the first time I went off a tailgate and my neck wasn't happy about it later. Quote Of course I'd never except the risk level for a civilian jump Military Static line is FAR more dangerous than your average skydive. Give it a try....you might like it. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #4 November 11, 2002 Clay, That's a good point about exiting at a 45 degree angle. I know we were trained to do a brisk exit straight out on the side doors, but it just seemed to work a lot better for me to turn my body about 45 degrees to the prop blast. I was never able to tailgate a military aircraft. I'll bet that would be cool. I've heard that it is easy to get flipped up when your legs hit the prop blast first when stepping off the tail gait. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingmonkeeking 0 #5 November 11, 2002 Oh I dig skydiving what I meant by the risk was hmmm... Well I would never do no contact CRW with 400 people at night from 850 ft. (especialy if the average was about 15 jumps per) on my off time. Hows that for being overly dramatic. I'd never be able to look my mom in the eyes. Fortunately it's job related no guilt and it's a blast. I thought running off somebody elses canopy or spread eagle so don't pass through his suspension lines was normal behaviour for over a year. In my private life I'm as conservative as they come. They've gone back to ecactly the exit procedures you described. I haven't had the guts to take my hands off the reserve yet but I use my elbows to get stable with some success. I was just trying to get some discussion going on military parachuting. I think it's fun and exciting and I'd like to learn more about it. Unless your down at Raeford which is unfortunately 4,000 miles away right now it's hard to find people who are uptodate on military and civilian jumps. Our jumpmasters may be the best at what they do but the guy who jumps 10 times a year still has tunnel vision. I tried to tell folks how funny they looked flailing around during deployment several times and they always tell me you can't see anything untill your chute deploys. One for instance I learned from skydiving is that you shouldn't crank your chest strap down as tight as possible. I was always told to and lost two k-pots, got slapped by the risers every time. Loosened it up no sweat. I know there are people out there with way more crossover knowledge than me. Still trying to drag that info out into the open. Disclaimer time. I think the Army does an outstanding job training us. realy the biggest thing they can do to improve is get guys a dozen jumps a month so they don't freak out with the ground coming up and spread their legs when it's time to PLF. that's how we hurt 90% of our people. As rough as T-10's are on the body, as much as it would cost, it's just a loosing proposition. Thanks guys keep it coming Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kingmonkeeking 0 #6 November 11, 2002 Any body who can exit with 100lb. ruck plus weapon plus 45 lb rig is a stud. I weigh 150 and have exited at 300 and it wasn't pretty but I've seen others do it.Quote Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Lizard 0 #7 November 11, 2002 If you want to learn more about military jumping, get your hands on a copy of FM 57-220. It was our "bible" in jumpmaster school. Alot of good info. Alot has changed in the past few years with military jumping. static line stowing, (pack trays have been modified), reserve parachutes have changed, (gone to the MIRPS), exit procedures ect.... theres more stows for the static line on the standard MC1-1/T-10 pack tray, the MIRPS (Modified Improved Reserve Parachute System) has eliminated the down and away method of reserve deployment and now exit procedures have changed. On a C130 it used to be "up and out" now its a 45degree angle like on a C141 exit. FM 57-220 will give the the latest and greatest information. Ask a jumpmaster in your unit for a copy. They should be able to get you one and answer any questions you may have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #8 November 11, 2002 Or....just go here.... 155.217.58.58/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/57-220/toc.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #9 November 11, 2002 Lizard, I went through jumpmaster school way back when. I'll bet things have changed a lot. I'm curious about the new reserves. When I first started jumping, military reserves had no pilot chutes. If you had a May-West type of malfunction you were taught to throw it out in the direction you were spinning. Do they still use two shot capewells? Even on 141's we were taught to exit straight out and away. I think most of us learned by trial and error that 45 degrees worked a lot better. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #10 November 11, 2002 The MIRPs reserve has a spring loaded PC so there is only one emergency procedure now. Turn your head and pull the handle. QuoteDo they still use two shot capewells? Yep. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites homer 0 #11 November 12, 2002 QuoteClean exits were definately something I had to learn. I was a bit paranoid of hitting the airplane for the first 10 or 20 jumps. Funny I never had a problem with my exit it was the landing that gave me a problem. Who would believe that after 3 years of being a human lawn dart you can actually do a stand up landing with a square chute. I didn't think there was any other way to land other than a PLF, so thats what I did for the first dozen or so jumps. After the DZO threatened to charge my extra for always rolling in the dirt and getting his gear dirty I started standing them all up. I haven't fallen in over 30 jumps and the last one was due to high winds and wet grass.I do still have the thought of doing a PLF every time I come in on a fast landing. CSA #699 Muff #3804 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites katiebear21 0 #12 November 12, 2002 Interesting though that Benning and Bragg teach JM school very differently. Even the sustained airborne training that is conducted prior to each jump is different. The MIRPS is a definite improvement to the T-10 reserve... deploys like a civilian reserve except it is catapulted by a 10oz. lead weight. Because of the locking pin mechanism and the pressure that it holds it has been a concern for jumpmasters. I believe we had 4 fatal/near fatal injuries here at Bragg in a very short time attributed to premature deployment of the reserve. We (limited to the JM team) now use a black rubbery insert that slips into the rip cord grip stow pocket to help prevent such cases. I honestly have to say that after being towed by a C-130 by my HPT lowering line and being put in the trees out of a CSS Casa over Sicily DZ, I do fewer and fewer military static line jumps. It took me 2-1/2 years to acquire 32 and in three months of skydiving I have made over 50 jumps injury free. I'll pull ground duties all week long and skydive all weekend!!! Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites steve1 5 #13 November 13, 2002 Katiebear, Tell us more about being towed behind the C-130. I think that is every para-troopers worst night-mare. Did they cut you loose? I remember hearing stories of, "if you're unconscious we may have to foam down the runway and land with you." Scary! Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #14 November 13, 2002 Quote being put in the trees out of a CSS Casa over Sicily DZ UUuummm.....Jumpmaster spot....Jumpmaster release? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites katiebear21 0 #15 November 13, 2002 Quote Tell us more about being towed behind the C-130. The scariness didn't set in until I was home in bed that night. I was a pretty new jumpmaster getting my night AJ. Everything went sweet and then when I exited I felt like a dog that came to the end of his chain when he didn't really know he was tied up. Believe it or not, all that pre-jump just kicks in and you do exactly what you're supposed to without even thinking about it. The worst part was the pressure of the wind on my back... don't really remember anything else except keeping as tight as I could so my static line didn't get misrouted somewhere. Luckily my safety was on it and had me cut away in less than 10 seconds. I didn't really know what happened so I was ready to pop my reserve and then felt the opening shock of my canopy. Went to lower my equipment and couldn't figure out why I didn't feel it come to the end of the lowering line (duh!). The incident really made me put more faith into the rigidness of the training and I bitch a lot less now that an operation takes 6 hours because of all the repetition! Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites katiebear21 0 #16 November 13, 2002 Quote UUuummm.....Jumpmaster spot....Jumpmaster release? Glad I can't be accused of JM'ing that one! Guess we're not used to getting that much altitude (1500Ft) and the JM's didn't adjust to the wind dummy. I think I made a pretty good one though! Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #17 November 13, 2002 Quote Went to lower my equipment and couldn't figure out why I didn't feel it come to the end of the lowering line Some days it just doesn't pay to be DZSO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites freeflir29 0 #18 November 13, 2002 Quote Guess we're not used to getting that much altitude (1500Ft) Yeah...it can be pretty hard to spot from WAAAAYYYY up there. It's OK....it was before I got to my unit but there is a hilarious story in the 14th ASOS Read File about a few Squadron Bozos, a Navy C-2 Greyhound, and some 15Ft static lines. Even worse.....years later when I was there. The C-2 came back.....One of the guys was trying to tell me that a 20Ft S/L was the right length. I kept trying to tell him he was wrong but of course what do i know. I refused that jump. I guess it went OK but the C-2 is the ONLY aircraft I know of that needs 25Ft S/l's. We had to borrow them from the Squeels at Team 2. I guess they are the only people that jump them regularly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites katiebear21 0 #19 November 13, 2002 Quote Yeah...it can be pretty hard to spot from WAAAAYYYY up there. Yeah, that's why I like Skydiving better! More room (or altitude ) for error! Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
Lizard 0 #7 November 11, 2002 If you want to learn more about military jumping, get your hands on a copy of FM 57-220. It was our "bible" in jumpmaster school. Alot of good info. Alot has changed in the past few years with military jumping. static line stowing, (pack trays have been modified), reserve parachutes have changed, (gone to the MIRPS), exit procedures ect.... theres more stows for the static line on the standard MC1-1/T-10 pack tray, the MIRPS (Modified Improved Reserve Parachute System) has eliminated the down and away method of reserve deployment and now exit procedures have changed. On a C130 it used to be "up and out" now its a 45degree angle like on a C141 exit. FM 57-220 will give the the latest and greatest information. Ask a jumpmaster in your unit for a copy. They should be able to get you one and answer any questions you may have. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #8 November 11, 2002 Or....just go here.... 155.217.58.58/cgi-bin/atdl.dll/fm/57-220/toc.htm Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #9 November 11, 2002 Lizard, I went through jumpmaster school way back when. I'll bet things have changed a lot. I'm curious about the new reserves. When I first started jumping, military reserves had no pilot chutes. If you had a May-West type of malfunction you were taught to throw it out in the direction you were spinning. Do they still use two shot capewells? Even on 141's we were taught to exit straight out and away. I think most of us learned by trial and error that 45 degrees worked a lot better. Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #10 November 11, 2002 The MIRPs reserve has a spring loaded PC so there is only one emergency procedure now. Turn your head and pull the handle. QuoteDo they still use two shot capewells? Yep. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
homer 0 #11 November 12, 2002 QuoteClean exits were definately something I had to learn. I was a bit paranoid of hitting the airplane for the first 10 or 20 jumps. Funny I never had a problem with my exit it was the landing that gave me a problem. Who would believe that after 3 years of being a human lawn dart you can actually do a stand up landing with a square chute. I didn't think there was any other way to land other than a PLF, so thats what I did for the first dozen or so jumps. After the DZO threatened to charge my extra for always rolling in the dirt and getting his gear dirty I started standing them all up. I haven't fallen in over 30 jumps and the last one was due to high winds and wet grass.I do still have the thought of doing a PLF every time I come in on a fast landing. CSA #699 Muff #3804 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katiebear21 0 #12 November 12, 2002 Interesting though that Benning and Bragg teach JM school very differently. Even the sustained airborne training that is conducted prior to each jump is different. The MIRPS is a definite improvement to the T-10 reserve... deploys like a civilian reserve except it is catapulted by a 10oz. lead weight. Because of the locking pin mechanism and the pressure that it holds it has been a concern for jumpmasters. I believe we had 4 fatal/near fatal injuries here at Bragg in a very short time attributed to premature deployment of the reserve. We (limited to the JM team) now use a black rubbery insert that slips into the rip cord grip stow pocket to help prevent such cases. I honestly have to say that after being towed by a C-130 by my HPT lowering line and being put in the trees out of a CSS Casa over Sicily DZ, I do fewer and fewer military static line jumps. It took me 2-1/2 years to acquire 32 and in three months of skydiving I have made over 50 jumps injury free. I'll pull ground duties all week long and skydive all weekend!!! Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
steve1 5 #13 November 13, 2002 Katiebear, Tell us more about being towed behind the C-130. I think that is every para-troopers worst night-mare. Did they cut you loose? I remember hearing stories of, "if you're unconscious we may have to foam down the runway and land with you." Scary! Steve1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #14 November 13, 2002 Quote being put in the trees out of a CSS Casa over Sicily DZ UUuummm.....Jumpmaster spot....Jumpmaster release? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katiebear21 0 #15 November 13, 2002 Quote Tell us more about being towed behind the C-130. The scariness didn't set in until I was home in bed that night. I was a pretty new jumpmaster getting my night AJ. Everything went sweet and then when I exited I felt like a dog that came to the end of his chain when he didn't really know he was tied up. Believe it or not, all that pre-jump just kicks in and you do exactly what you're supposed to without even thinking about it. The worst part was the pressure of the wind on my back... don't really remember anything else except keeping as tight as I could so my static line didn't get misrouted somewhere. Luckily my safety was on it and had me cut away in less than 10 seconds. I didn't really know what happened so I was ready to pop my reserve and then felt the opening shock of my canopy. Went to lower my equipment and couldn't figure out why I didn't feel it come to the end of the lowering line (duh!). The incident really made me put more faith into the rigidness of the training and I bitch a lot less now that an operation takes 6 hours because of all the repetition! Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katiebear21 0 #16 November 13, 2002 Quote UUuummm.....Jumpmaster spot....Jumpmaster release? Glad I can't be accused of JM'ing that one! Guess we're not used to getting that much altitude (1500Ft) and the JM's didn't adjust to the wind dummy. I think I made a pretty good one though! Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #17 November 13, 2002 Quote Went to lower my equipment and couldn't figure out why I didn't feel it come to the end of the lowering line Some days it just doesn't pay to be DZSO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
freeflir29 0 #18 November 13, 2002 Quote Guess we're not used to getting that much altitude (1500Ft) Yeah...it can be pretty hard to spot from WAAAAYYYY up there. It's OK....it was before I got to my unit but there is a hilarious story in the 14th ASOS Read File about a few Squadron Bozos, a Navy C-2 Greyhound, and some 15Ft static lines. Even worse.....years later when I was there. The C-2 came back.....One of the guys was trying to tell me that a 20Ft S/L was the right length. I kept trying to tell him he was wrong but of course what do i know. I refused that jump. I guess it went OK but the C-2 is the ONLY aircraft I know of that needs 25Ft S/l's. We had to borrow them from the Squeels at Team 2. I guess they are the only people that jump them regularly. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
katiebear21 0 #19 November 13, 2002 Quote Yeah...it can be pretty hard to spot from WAAAAYYYY up there. Yeah, that's why I like Skydiving better! More room (or altitude ) for error! Katie Get your PMS glass necklace here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
