mpreil 2 #1 February 4, 2013 Since my reserve was repacked on Feb. 1, I have the dubious distinction of being one of the first people whose reserve data card says, in big red letters, "Cypres affected by service bulletin C20113, read and follow". So I did check it before each jump. But I think the bulletin is useless. If it can fail between jumps, why can't it fail between takeoff and landing? And what are you supposed to do if it fails? The marketing guys who wrote the bulletin did not say "Don't jump" (read it carefully - it's a masterpiece of corporate fluff pretending to be a technical bulletin). But you can't turn it off if the light won't blink, and if the failure mode is an unintentional firing, doesn't that expose everyone on the plane to an unacceptable risk? I don't care if it doesn't fire - it's only a backup. But firing when it is not supposed to should be cause for immediate grounding, which Airtec can't do because they don't have 10,000 spares sitting around yet. My bet - in a few months they will recall all units. And they'll do it a lot faster if a Cypres takes down an airplane. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dontlikemustard 0 #2 February 4, 2013 checked it before every jump, away from any carpeted areas Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
potatoman 0 #3 February 4, 2013 I don't jump airtec, but I do check before every jump, including aad. Why would I only check half my gear?You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is. Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum" Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 63 #4 February 4, 2013 QuoteAirtec can't do because they don't have 10,000 spares sitting around yet. Over 20,000 would be needed... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 137 #5 February 4, 2013 I did, on around 10 rigs I was inspecting and repacking teh reservesscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 402 #6 February 4, 2013 QuoteI don't jump airtec, but I do check before every jump, including aad. Why would I only check half my gear? you say you check, but do you press the button to make sure it is still responding, or do you simply look at the display? I jump a Vigil and check the display after every jump - I don't press the button to verify that it hasnt turmed into a brick though.At this point I don't intend to change my procedures for my gear.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
potatoman 0 #7 February 4, 2013 Well, nobody ever mentioned to check by pushing the button, just check the display. Untill now, also won't be changing my normal method. When I take my gear off before packing, I do my toggles, and check what my speed/ff time was. Sure if it stopped functioning that feature would also be disbaled. Abviously also a vigil, and I would have had 1 jump of non-function, but at least not a whole day.You have the right to your opinion, and I have the right to tell you how Fu***** stupid it is. Davelepka - "This isn't an x-box, or a Chevy truck forum" Whatever you do, don't listen to ChrisD. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #8 February 4, 2013 QuoteAnd what are you supposed to do if it fails? Turn it off. QuoteBut you can't turn it off if the light won't blink, Quote Is that true? Where did you get that info. It's not in the bulletin that I can see. Speaking of which...Aerodyne has not yet added that bulletin to heir website. I don't care if it doesn't fire - it's only a backup. But firing when it is not supposed to should be cause for immediate grounding, which Airtec can't do because they don't have 10,000 spares sitting around yet. My bet - in a few months they will recall all units. And they'll do it a lot faster if a Cypres takes down an airplane.My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites FlyBear 1 #9 February 4, 2013 Didn't the bulletin itself say to check the device by pushing the button? If your cypres then responds with a blinking LED, it is in function. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pattersd 0 #10 February 4, 2013 You might want to put some thought into the idea of how do you turn it off if the light doesn't blink. think about the process used to turn it off, how do you do that with no light? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites piisfish 137 #11 February 4, 2013 QuoteDidn't the bulletin itself say to check the device by pushing the button? If your cypres then responds with a blinking LED, it is in function.I had in my hands one of the "frozen" CyPReS. It wouldn't do anything but remain "apparently" ONscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites billvon 2,870 #12 February 4, 2013 > If it can fail between jumps, why can't it fail between takeoff and landing? It can, as always. In this case the only reported issues have been during packing, so it looks like the odds are lower that it will fail between takeoff and landing. >And what are you supposed to do if it fails? Don't jump it. > But you can't turn it off if the light won't blink, and if the failure mode is an >unintentional firing, doesn't that expose everyone on the plane to an unacceptable >risk? Well given that they indicate they've only seen one firing (and there have been far more misfirings than one with Cypreses and other AAD's) it's probably a low risk. But yes, the risk is there if you jump it. Would be wise to remove the failed AAD before jumping the rig again IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 7 #13 February 4, 2013 ...as the local rigger told me in the loft yesterday ~ "Yeah sure it's a pain in the ass & it might still fail... but if it DOES happen to work - it's got a really good cutter!!" ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites iambeav2 0 #14 February 4, 2013 I am the rigger for my DZ, and made sure everybody knew about this prior too, and for the Sigma's we have the have Cypres II's instead of Vigil's, everyone checked (and regardless of whether they did or not, I walked to each rig between jumps and did it anyway). It's 1 button press, what's it hurt....it's not the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until it's gone...it's the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until someone appreciates it for you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Southern_Man 0 #15 February 4, 2013 Saturday I checked as I packed. It was very slow and I am not sure I will have time to continue to do that if we are busier, especially for experienced jumpers."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Abedy 0 #16 February 4, 2013 I didn't... ...as I was not skydiving I intend to do so but hey, if I happen to forget... at least it won't pop out the reserve when I don't expect it and I "only" have to take care of silver entirely myself. Yeah I know, irresponsible attitude, just being obnoxious, will really try to put it into my pre-jump gear check every time. The sky is not the limit. The ground is. The Society of Skydiving Ducks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airdvr 204 #17 February 4, 2013 Quote at least it won't pop out the reserve when I don't expect it How can you be sure? No matter how much things change they remain the same. Took forever for AAD's to gain acceptance, and only then when marketing convinced people it was failsafe. In reality it never has been failsafe and now we're back to the late 70's/early 80's where the operation of the device is again called into question. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites GLIDEANGLE 1 #18 February 4, 2013 Quoteat least it won't pop out the reserve when I don't expect it REALLY???? Direct quote from last week's Cypres2 SB: "In addition, a recent activation, after the rig had been placed on the packing mat, has been linked to this phenomenon. "The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites labrys 0 #19 February 4, 2013 Quote"In addition, a recent activation, after the rig had been placed on the packing mat, has been linked to this phenomenon. " It's unknown how many non-working CYPRES 2s there are out there, but seriously... this has been a problem for 4 years. How many "unexplained" CYPRES fires have there been in that time? None? Are you *really* that afraid that you'll have a reserve out because of this?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ErleGardner 0 #20 February 4, 2013 QuoteI don't jump airtec, but I do check before every jump, including aad. Why would I only check half my gear? Do you check your entire reserve repack on every jump? How about the tightness of the swage on the reserve ripcord cable ball? Do you check the hardness of the steel in your three rings? Do you thumb test canopy fabric strength on each cell? Is there a pebble inside your ripcord cable housing? Is your leg strap webbing okay inside the leg pads? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites 3mpire 0 #21 February 5, 2013 Quote "Yeah sure it's a pain in the ass & it might still fail... but if it DOES happen to work - it's got a really good cutter!!" Vigil AADs have a great cutter, too. If they didn't forget to put it in at the factory! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Skydivesg 7 #22 February 5, 2013 QuoteQuoteI don't jump airtec, but I do check before every jump, including aad. Why would I only check half my gear? Do you check your entire reserve repack on every jump? How about the tightness of the swage on the reserve ripcord cable ball? Do you check the hardness of the steel in your three rings? Do you thumb test canopy fabric strength on each cell? Is there a pebble inside your ripcord cable housing? Is your leg strap webbing okay inside the leg pads? I make every effort to check my gear before donning it, including pulling on both ends of the reserve ripcord to check for foreign objects in the housing, my Vigil and everything else that is within my capabilities. Of the 360 jumps I made last year I'd wager I only failed in that task about 20 times. Which is when I ask someone I trust for a pin check. It's my life and the responsibilty for preserving it rests entirely on my shoulders. Please know and check your gear people. Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. .Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nigel99 402 #23 February 5, 2013 QuoteQuote"In addition, a recent activation, after the rig had been placed on the packing mat, has been linked to this phenomenon. " It's unknown how many non-working CYPRES 2s there are out there, but seriously... this has been a problem for 4 years. How many "unexplained" CYPRES fires have there been in that time? None? Are you *really* that afraid that you'll have a reserve out because of this? Well there has been at least one 'unexplained' CYPRES fire - it is in their own service bulletin! It is also a stretch for them to claim the problem happened AFTER it was placed on the packing mat. The truth is that it FIRED on the packing mat, nobody knows when it became unstable.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites nigel99 402 #24 February 5, 2013 Quote> If it can fail between jumps, why can't it fail between takeoff and landing? It can, as always. In this case the only reported issues have been during packing, so it looks like the odds are lower that it will fail between takeoff and landing. >And what are you supposed to do if it fails? Don't jump it. > But you can't turn it off if the light won't blink, and if the failure mode is an >unintentional firing, doesn't that expose everyone on the plane to an unacceptable >risk? Well given that they indicate they've only seen one firing (and there have been far more misfirings than one with Cypreses and other AAD's) it's probably a low risk. But yes, the risk is there if you jump it. Would be wise to remove the failed AAD before jumping the rig again IMO. Isn't that a huge leap? The fact is that the problem is FOUND on the packing mat. Who really checks an AAD at other times? I don't believe many(any?) people are pressing CYPRES buttons on jump run.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites DavieCrockett 0 #25 February 5, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteI don't jump airtec, but I do check before every jump, including aad. Why would I only check half my gear? Do you check your entire reserve repack on every jump? How about the tightness of the swage on the reserve ripcord cable ball? Do you check the hardness of the steel in your three rings? Do you thumb test canopy fabric strength on each cell? Is there a pebble inside your ripcord cable housing? Is your leg strap webbing okay inside the leg pads? I make every effort to check my gear before donning it... everything else that is within my capabilities. Right. That's why we only check half our gear, because much of it is beyond the capability of field testing, and impractical to do if you want to make more than one jump per month. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 Next Page 1 of 2 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. 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FlyBear 1 #9 February 4, 2013 Didn't the bulletin itself say to check the device by pushing the button? If your cypres then responds with a blinking LED, it is in function. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pattersd 0 #10 February 4, 2013 You might want to put some thought into the idea of how do you turn it off if the light doesn't blink. think about the process used to turn it off, how do you do that with no light? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
piisfish 137 #11 February 4, 2013 QuoteDidn't the bulletin itself say to check the device by pushing the button? If your cypres then responds with a blinking LED, it is in function.I had in my hands one of the "frozen" CyPReS. It wouldn't do anything but remain "apparently" ONscissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,870 #12 February 4, 2013 > If it can fail between jumps, why can't it fail between takeoff and landing? It can, as always. In this case the only reported issues have been during packing, so it looks like the odds are lower that it will fail between takeoff and landing. >And what are you supposed to do if it fails? Don't jump it. > But you can't turn it off if the light won't blink, and if the failure mode is an >unintentional firing, doesn't that expose everyone on the plane to an unacceptable >risk? Well given that they indicate they've only seen one firing (and there have been far more misfirings than one with Cypreses and other AAD's) it's probably a low risk. But yes, the risk is there if you jump it. Would be wise to remove the failed AAD before jumping the rig again IMO. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 7 #13 February 4, 2013 ...as the local rigger told me in the loft yesterday ~ "Yeah sure it's a pain in the ass & it might still fail... but if it DOES happen to work - it's got a really good cutter!!" ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
iambeav2 0 #14 February 4, 2013 I am the rigger for my DZ, and made sure everybody knew about this prior too, and for the Sigma's we have the have Cypres II's instead of Vigil's, everyone checked (and regardless of whether they did or not, I walked to each rig between jumps and did it anyway). It's 1 button press, what's it hurt....it's not the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until it's gone...it's the fact that you don't appreciate what you have until someone appreciates it for you! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Southern_Man 0 #15 February 4, 2013 Saturday I checked as I packed. It was very slow and I am not sure I will have time to continue to do that if we are busier, especially for experienced jumpers."What if there were no hypothetical questions?" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Abedy 0 #16 February 4, 2013 I didn't... ...as I was not skydiving I intend to do so but hey, if I happen to forget... at least it won't pop out the reserve when I don't expect it and I "only" have to take care of silver entirely myself. Yeah I know, irresponsible attitude, just being obnoxious, will really try to put it into my pre-jump gear check every time. The sky is not the limit. The ground is. The Society of Skydiving Ducks Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airdvr 204 #17 February 4, 2013 Quote at least it won't pop out the reserve when I don't expect it How can you be sure? No matter how much things change they remain the same. Took forever for AAD's to gain acceptance, and only then when marketing convinced people it was failsafe. In reality it never has been failsafe and now we're back to the late 70's/early 80's where the operation of the device is again called into question. Please don't dent the planet. Destinations by Roxanne Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GLIDEANGLE 1 #18 February 4, 2013 Quoteat least it won't pop out the reserve when I don't expect it REALLY???? Direct quote from last week's Cypres2 SB: "In addition, a recent activation, after the rig had been placed on the packing mat, has been linked to this phenomenon. "The choices we make have consequences, for us & for others! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
labrys 0 #19 February 4, 2013 Quote"In addition, a recent activation, after the rig had been placed on the packing mat, has been linked to this phenomenon. " It's unknown how many non-working CYPRES 2s there are out there, but seriously... this has been a problem for 4 years. How many "unexplained" CYPRES fires have there been in that time? None? Are you *really* that afraid that you'll have a reserve out because of this?Owned by Remi #? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ErleGardner 0 #20 February 4, 2013 QuoteI don't jump airtec, but I do check before every jump, including aad. Why would I only check half my gear? Do you check your entire reserve repack on every jump? How about the tightness of the swage on the reserve ripcord cable ball? Do you check the hardness of the steel in your three rings? Do you thumb test canopy fabric strength on each cell? Is there a pebble inside your ripcord cable housing? Is your leg strap webbing okay inside the leg pads? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
3mpire 0 #21 February 5, 2013 Quote "Yeah sure it's a pain in the ass & it might still fail... but if it DOES happen to work - it's got a really good cutter!!" Vigil AADs have a great cutter, too. If they didn't forget to put it in at the factory! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skydivesg 7 #22 February 5, 2013 QuoteQuoteI don't jump airtec, but I do check before every jump, including aad. Why would I only check half my gear? Do you check your entire reserve repack on every jump? How about the tightness of the swage on the reserve ripcord cable ball? Do you check the hardness of the steel in your three rings? Do you thumb test canopy fabric strength on each cell? Is there a pebble inside your ripcord cable housing? Is your leg strap webbing okay inside the leg pads? I make every effort to check my gear before donning it, including pulling on both ends of the reserve ripcord to check for foreign objects in the housing, my Vigil and everything else that is within my capabilities. Of the 360 jumps I made last year I'd wager I only failed in that task about 20 times. Which is when I ask someone I trust for a pin check. It's my life and the responsibilty for preserving it rests entirely on my shoulders. Please know and check your gear people. Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. .Be the canopy pilot you want that other guy to be. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 402 #23 February 5, 2013 QuoteQuote"In addition, a recent activation, after the rig had been placed on the packing mat, has been linked to this phenomenon. " It's unknown how many non-working CYPRES 2s there are out there, but seriously... this has been a problem for 4 years. How many "unexplained" CYPRES fires have there been in that time? None? Are you *really* that afraid that you'll have a reserve out because of this? Well there has been at least one 'unexplained' CYPRES fire - it is in their own service bulletin! It is also a stretch for them to claim the problem happened AFTER it was placed on the packing mat. The truth is that it FIRED on the packing mat, nobody knows when it became unstable.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nigel99 402 #24 February 5, 2013 Quote> If it can fail between jumps, why can't it fail between takeoff and landing? It can, as always. In this case the only reported issues have been during packing, so it looks like the odds are lower that it will fail between takeoff and landing. >And what are you supposed to do if it fails? Don't jump it. > But you can't turn it off if the light won't blink, and if the failure mode is an >unintentional firing, doesn't that expose everyone on the plane to an unacceptable >risk? Well given that they indicate they've only seen one firing (and there have been far more misfirings than one with Cypreses and other AAD's) it's probably a low risk. But yes, the risk is there if you jump it. Would be wise to remove the failed AAD before jumping the rig again IMO. Isn't that a huge leap? The fact is that the problem is FOUND on the packing mat. Who really checks an AAD at other times? I don't believe many(any?) people are pressing CYPRES buttons on jump run.Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DavieCrockett 0 #25 February 5, 2013 QuoteQuoteQuoteI don't jump airtec, but I do check before every jump, including aad. Why would I only check half my gear? Do you check your entire reserve repack on every jump? How about the tightness of the swage on the reserve ripcord cable ball? Do you check the hardness of the steel in your three rings? Do you thumb test canopy fabric strength on each cell? Is there a pebble inside your ripcord cable housing? Is your leg strap webbing okay inside the leg pads? I make every effort to check my gear before donning it... everything else that is within my capabilities. Right. That's why we only check half our gear, because much of it is beyond the capability of field testing, and impractical to do if you want to make more than one jump per month. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
