GPSJane 0
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Congrats, Zagor for taking control of your situation and making the decision for yourself. Others be damned.
Good stuff. Don't be a lemming.
Tom put it very nicely saying your instructor blew it with attitude and inattention.
I would hope that your DZO would give you a price break for the non-jump. Paying for the slots and your instructor's time is reasonable, though.
Good stuff. Don't be a lemming.
Tom put it very nicely saying your instructor blew it with attitude and inattention.
I would hope that your DZO would give you a price break for the non-jump. Paying for the slots and your instructor's time is reasonable, though.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239
rehmwa 2
QuoteI would hope that your DZO would give you a price break for the non-jump. Paying for the slots and your instructor's time is reasonable, though.
In one way it's 'reasonable' from the student's perspective. In another way, they could have taken a jumping student up on that load and made full profit. So covering that missed cost is also 'reasonable'.
IMO, I would hope they give him a break also. Though he doesn't sound like someone that's really into it enough to finish.
...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants
Squeak 17
Gee I'm glad you dont instruct hereQuoteQuoteI would hope that your DZO would give you a price break for the non-jump. Paying for the slots and your instructor's time is reasonable, though.
In one way it's 'reasonable' from the student's perspective. In another way, they could have taken a jumping student up on that load and made full profit. So covering that missed cost is also 'reasonable'.
IMO, I would hope they give him a break also. Though he doesn't sound like someone that's really into it enough to finish.
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?
AFFI 0
This may be kind of a long post, but I will compose it carefully to keep it as short as possible, it might be worth the read to anyone that has been as interested in this thread as I have been.
It was July 4th, Independence Day – a personal story.
I am terrified of heights and especially airplanes, in fact I still will not fly commercially to this day - I am the last person that would ever skydive. In order to try and get over my fear of heights, and a few other somewhat critical personal reasons I decided to go and make a skydive, just once.
AFF Level 1:
Compared to the rigs my instructors were utilizing, the one I had on my back was an old ragged out of date piece of shit, at least that was my conception because I knew nothing about how skydiving equipment worked and knowing what I know now, I wouldn’t jump the rig I used on my first jump, must have been 20+ years old but I know if I had to bail out with that same rig today that it would work because if I have learned anything at all about skydiving – the gear is very reliable. I have been amazed over the years how incredibly reliable it is!
To make a really LONG story less long:
On jump run we approached the door and I said NO, I am not going to jump. I did not feel confident in my gear and mostly, in all honesty, I was terrified!
FUCKING TERRIFIED!!!
Every sense told me that if I jumped out that door that I was most certainly going to DIE.
Rather than just taking me down, my instructors signaled the pilot to make a go around. Chuck, the instructor that taught the FJC that morning knew my reasons for wanting to jump, and he wanted to try to calm me down and get me out the door because he knew I desperately needed what skydiving could provide me.
Skydiving is the builder of self confidence and self esteem, both of which I was at the time, in desperate need of…
Phil, the reserve side JM probably hadn’t said 5 words to me, he was assigned to jump with us at the last minute and that only added to my anxiety.
The Otter turned port, the view of the sky outside the door turned to ground and I starred at it, not even hearing the words that were coming out of Chuck’s mouth, I was mesmerized. The plane leveled and I must have been shaking my head, giving signals that I was absolutely not going to jump when something interesting happened.
Phil, the JM I had hardly even spoken to turned me to him and he literally put his nose to mine and looked me square in the eye with his huge, budging and commanding eyes and screamed much like my drill sergeants during boot camp did:
“Did you come here to fucking skydive or not”?
I reacted exactly as if it was 1987 and I was in Ft. Ln-wood and Drill Sergeant Green was in my face. I shouted in reply at the top of my lungs – Yes, I am here to skydive!
He than ordered me to take my place in the door. I did.
Check Left – Check Right – Ready, Set, Go…
The very moment my feet left the door ALL the fear was gone and I was overwhelmed with the most amazing sensation I have ever been exposed to.
Freefall really lit me up, it totally did it for me – I had found what I was looking for all my life.
It was beautiful…
Right after I landed, the first words out of my mouth to Chuck were:
“I am going to become a skydive instructor”.
And I worked toward that goal from the very start.
Even though I completed AFF in 7 without any repeats and was what is referred to as a “natural” did not mean I was not nervous, scared or even terrified at times.
But I made the decision that no matter what my brain was telling me, that I was going to get in the door, check in and exit because I made a CONSCIOUS DECISION from that point on that I was going to take my training seriously and that I was going to TRUST the gear and the process.
Some people may have opinions that the way Phil got me out the door was right or wrong, but it was EXACTLY what I needed.
Thanks Phil…
It was July 4th, Independence Day – a personal story.
I am terrified of heights and especially airplanes, in fact I still will not fly commercially to this day - I am the last person that would ever skydive. In order to try and get over my fear of heights, and a few other somewhat critical personal reasons I decided to go and make a skydive, just once.
AFF Level 1:
Compared to the rigs my instructors were utilizing, the one I had on my back was an old ragged out of date piece of shit, at least that was my conception because I knew nothing about how skydiving equipment worked and knowing what I know now, I wouldn’t jump the rig I used on my first jump, must have been 20+ years old but I know if I had to bail out with that same rig today that it would work because if I have learned anything at all about skydiving – the gear is very reliable. I have been amazed over the years how incredibly reliable it is!
To make a really LONG story less long:
On jump run we approached the door and I said NO, I am not going to jump. I did not feel confident in my gear and mostly, in all honesty, I was terrified!
FUCKING TERRIFIED!!!
Every sense told me that if I jumped out that door that I was most certainly going to DIE.
Rather than just taking me down, my instructors signaled the pilot to make a go around. Chuck, the instructor that taught the FJC that morning knew my reasons for wanting to jump, and he wanted to try to calm me down and get me out the door because he knew I desperately needed what skydiving could provide me.
Skydiving is the builder of self confidence and self esteem, both of which I was at the time, in desperate need of…
Phil, the reserve side JM probably hadn’t said 5 words to me, he was assigned to jump with us at the last minute and that only added to my anxiety.
The Otter turned port, the view of the sky outside the door turned to ground and I starred at it, not even hearing the words that were coming out of Chuck’s mouth, I was mesmerized. The plane leveled and I must have been shaking my head, giving signals that I was absolutely not going to jump when something interesting happened.
Phil, the JM I had hardly even spoken to turned me to him and he literally put his nose to mine and looked me square in the eye with his huge, budging and commanding eyes and screamed much like my drill sergeants during boot camp did:
“Did you come here to fucking skydive or not”?
I reacted exactly as if it was 1987 and I was in Ft. Ln-wood and Drill Sergeant Green was in my face. I shouted in reply at the top of my lungs – Yes, I am here to skydive!
He than ordered me to take my place in the door. I did.
Check Left – Check Right – Ready, Set, Go…
The very moment my feet left the door ALL the fear was gone and I was overwhelmed with the most amazing sensation I have ever been exposed to.
Freefall really lit me up, it totally did it for me – I had found what I was looking for all my life.
It was beautiful…
Right after I landed, the first words out of my mouth to Chuck were:
“I am going to become a skydive instructor”.
And I worked toward that goal from the very start.
Even though I completed AFF in 7 without any repeats and was what is referred to as a “natural” did not mean I was not nervous, scared or even terrified at times.
But I made the decision that no matter what my brain was telling me, that I was going to get in the door, check in and exit because I made a CONSCIOUS DECISION from that point on that I was going to take my training seriously and that I was going to TRUST the gear and the process.
Some people may have opinions that the way Phil got me out the door was right or wrong, but it was EXACTLY what I needed.
Thanks Phil…
Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…
Zagor 0
Hello AFFI,
I thank you a lot for your kind answer, also because it makes hope I will be able to jump.
And I can see my doubts and emotions were not so different from those of many others.
I think I have a will strong enough to be able to overcome my fear when I feel that I have done and I have received everything I need, but in that situation I had chosen I wouldn't jump because I didn't feel safe.
But also, I think that if my instructor had acted like yours, it wouldn't have succeded with me, because I would have shouted at him to leave me alone and that I didnt' mean to jump
eheheh
But everyone is different and maybe I need somebody reassuring and who is willing to listen to me and my requests.
I will certainly update this thread when I try to jump next time.
AFFI 0
QuoteI will certainly update this thread when I try to jump next time.
Don't try, decide before you board the plane, and then follow through.
Trust me, on of your parachutes will work and after you land, you will find that it was not that big of a deal.
I suppose it's like getting laid for the first time, at first you’re all nervous and kinda scared, and then you get into it and say hey, this aint nothing to be nervous about!
Unless of course it was with Father McCulady!
Mykel AFF-I10
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…
Skydiving Priorities: 1) Open Canopy. 2) Land Safely. 3) Don’t hurt anyone. 4) Repeat…
Hello! 
First of all: many people have had a cutaway on their very first jump, and been fine. If you doubt that you're able to perform your EPs, you shouldn't go up. This applies to your first jump and every jump you do after that. People can have 500 jumps and not a single malfunction, especially if they don't fly fully elliptical high performance parachutes, but they still have to be ready for a malfunction, because they happen.
Second: you shouldn't go up with a rig that you don't think is packed properly. I have unpacked routinely the PC of gear that I was renting, and found it still collapsed, so that I could have gotten a pilot chute in tow. That unpacking and repacking of the PC could have saved me money and time on the reserve repack and retrieval of the main and freebag, and could also have saved me from a dangerous situation. (a collapsed pilot chute can pull out the parachute, but will not always do that). If you think there is reason to unpack and repack something, then do it, instead of worrying about it in the plane and getting a malfunction or an ncomfortable opening that you could have been avoided. That's why it's important to have a enough time before getting on the load, especially if you're not jumping your own gear.
You picked up on these two things, and didn't jump, and I think that was the right thing to do. Later in your skydiving career, you'll get situations like the one that you described, and if you feel that it's not right to get on the plane, then don't do it. I recently got injured because I ignored my gut feeling that I shouldn't jump. We have a saying that goes: "It's better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air than being in the air wishing you were on the ground".
I also think there were two things wrong with your DZ and instructor: Your instructor rushed things, making you more stressed than you already were, and I don't think he should have commented loudly on your rig. He wouldn't have let you jump it if he didn't think it was OK, so it was really unnescesary of him to tell you. Maybe he was just angry with the packers or something. I had about 30 jumps, and just learned to pack, when an instructor took the student rig I'd just packed and said he needed it for the level3 student he was going up with. I knew better than telling that student that it was maybe my 5 pack job since getting my packer certificate. i felt confident in the pack job, but I knew the student wouldn't trust me.
I also think the DZ should give you a discount on your "failed" level 1 jump. Not because of the above, but because it would be good service and encourage you to jump there again. If not, I would look for somewhere else to jump.
These are just MHO based on what you said.
Don't worry about fear, t's normal, and gear fear will go away when you learn more about the gear and how it works. It willl definetely get better when you start packing yourself.
And you don't have to jump, you jump because you choose to. But try to make that decision on the ground rather than in the plane. It makes everything easier for everyone. 
Relax, you can die if you mess up, but it will probably not be by bullet.
I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?
I'm a BIG, TOUGH BIGWAY FORMATION SKYDIVER! What are you?
Zagor 0
Quote
you shouldn't go up with a rig that you don't think is packed properly. I have unpacked routinely the PC of gear that I was renting
Yes, that's true. But here in Italy it's not required for main parachutes to carry the signature of the person whoe packed them.
So it's normal to have main parachutes packed by the students who rent them.
When packing for the very first times, students are normally watched by instructors, but nobody will put his signature for that. And I have personally seen students make some mistakes and then heard instructors yell because they had found something was wrong. But sometimes they don't see it.
Zagor,
You did right. If you had any doubt about the rig or competency of the riggers or lack thereof then you were right not to jump. However, you should not have boarded the plane. I had a friend get me into skydiving and he didn't jump when he was in the plane. He was well trained and fully instructed on the procedures to go through during high speed malfunctions, he freaked but pressed on because everyone else was totally excited about the first jump. The plane was a C182 so with three static line students and a JM it was crowded and dangerous to move him from student position to the rear of the aircraft so the other jumpers could exit. Your instinct is good and can save your life but if you feel like fear may cloud or overwhelm your judgement, don't board the aircraft. Good luck and keep trying. Definitely find another DZ if this one makes you uncomfortable. Hang around awhile and meet the JM's and Staff. If they answer questions freely and make time for you even if it is just an acknowledgement of your conern then you should be in good shape.
Blue Skies!
I think you have the right attitude Zagor. You realise what you did wrong but you expect a certain amount of professionalism and personal attention as a first time jumper.
In the future, remember this incident and be more assertive in asking to be made more comfortable. Request that your instructor does whatever it is that you need to be completley satisfied. It IS your responsibility and you should never again get on a plane without being comfortable with your equipment/the weather/the people you are jumping with etc etc. This applies to ALL jumps - tandems, AFF and even once you are more experienced.
Learn to pack as soon as you can but it doesn't have to be before your first jump either. Of course there's no harm in learning to pack before jumping either!
I once took myself off a load because I had a fight with my boyfriend while we were walking out. People were all annoyed with me but I did not feel comfortable going up in that state so as far as I was concerned that's was how it was going to be.
Moral of the story: don't let people walk all over you just because they are all experienced and stuff! (PS but also trust your instructor to know what is safe - sometimes just asking him some questions will ease your mind)
Edited to add: Oh and why don't they have apacking slip for each rig. Then you know when and by whom it was packed! At our dz you can't jump a student rig unless it had a packing slip and the packer has a packing license.
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