Help to ID a "Call Ralph" canopy

[gowlerk 1,903]

I bought another Ebay item. Just can't help myself. It was advertised as a PD 210. When it arrived I got a "Western Parachute Sales" Model 210, PN P1150 00, Ser# 1393 90,DOM 01-03-93.

7 cell f-111 type, lined with flat braided dacron. The bottom skin measures about 19 ft by 9.75. The line lengths don't match up with any PD 7 cell I can find.

It's low mileage for sure. It came with risers and was misrigged. On one end all the lines were attached to the rear riser. I'm not sure what effect that would have on flight, but I'm guessing it would cause a significant turn. Maybe that's why it wasn't used much.

I've heard that Ralph relabeled stuff all the time. Anybody know what this canopy is?

Thanks
Ken

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[Southern_Man 0]

Can you post some pictures?

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[woppyvac 0]

LOL for home much?

Woot Woot!

[skytribe 16]

Get it rigged correctly by a rigger. If all lines on one side are rigged to the rear risers it will not fly correctly (if at all) and result in a reserve ride.

As to what it is - is there any indication on the data panel on the tail as to the manufacturer or any advertising name panels on the outside of the end cells. This picture of data panel may provide some clues as to manufacturer.

Quite frankly from the description it could be a lot of things. A roughly 200 sq foot 7 cell canopy from 93 or f111 (ZP was around then) was a very common general design.

From a dim distant memory of when I started jumping and I remember a COE canopy with flat Dacron lines.

http://www.dropzone.com/forum/Skydiving_C1/Gear_and_Rigging_F6/Anyone_ever_heard_of_this_main_P39981/

I'm not sure how the serial numbers would match up but as I said the data panel may shed some light on the manufacturer/canopy.

[councilman24 36]

PD didn't make a 210 7 cell, They made a 176, 193, and 218, (plus others) They did have a 210 nine cell but the span was 23' The size of the 176 was published in 1993 as 19.22 x 9,15. I have a 1995 PD-260 and their part number was simply 260-c.

Are there logos on the end cells? Most canopies had something there. If not are there stitch holes where they were removed?

I can't find or think of any 7 cell F-111 canopy that was called 210 in 1993. Using my excellent reference ParaGear catalog.

Not sure how long GQ made X-210's. Here is a ling to the manual for the reserve version.
http://www.parachutemanuals.com/index.php?option=com_remository&Itemid=40&func=startdown&id=436 Cord not quite right but different folks measure differenly, It's not too far off. See if the lines spec in the manual match. They would be different than most stuff.

Buying from Ralph was always tough. You were never quite sure what you were going to get.

I hate questions like this because I spend two hours trying to figure it out!

BTW if you can return it you probably should. Clearly not a "PD 210". Or dispute it with ebay, paypal or credit card.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[gowlerk 1,903]

The info from my post came from the data panel, which is the only marking on it. Yes, I will get my rigger to install it correctly, easily done because I am he. And I only paid $165 with risers ,d-bag, and pc, so I'm ok there.

Call Ralph sold lots of stuff out west back then. I'm hoping one of the western riggers who have been around a while will know something about it.

Ken

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[skytribe 16]

Thinking about it the COE were probably 9 cell only. I'd take a look through Poynters manual 2 as this is around the 90's time period and covers many of the manufacturer no longer around. Something in there may help identify it.

[gowlerk 1,903]

Sorry Terry, I hate to trouble your brain like that. No other panel and I couldn't see any stitch line either. I sent the seller a message asking why he described it as pd210, but no answer yet

I was assuming it was a 9 cell because I know that's the only 210 they made. I am suspecting it's a 7 cell 193, but who knows? At the price I paid I'm going to keep it. I've already hooked it up to a rig I have here as a rental, but I'll need to do a couple test jumps first. If I get a good answer from the seller I may just not leave feedback, but if he doesn't have a good explanation it will hurt his record. But I haven't left anyone bad feedback before.

It's made in three shades of blue. And it has non cascaded center A-B lines. With the flat braided dacron it reminds me of my old Cruiselite, but it's not big enough for that. LSTs are heavier dacron. Bartacks don't look like PD to me, but I'm not that good at IDing them.

Ken

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[councilman24 36]

I took a look through PPM Vol II and couldn't find anything that matched.

COE?

Of course you could always call Ralph.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[councilman24 36]

193 listed 20.13 x 9,59.

176 is closer. Have a little guy test jump it?

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[gowlerk 1,903]

What? you don't think I'm little enough? Only 6' 2" and 195. No sweat.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[skytribe 16]

Coe canopies were made by PISA (Parachute Industries of South Africa). I believe there were basic PD designs but made under license with some minor changes.

[councilman24 36]

On a 176 F-111 seven cell? Loading it to 1.3 or 1.4? The 140 pound girl had trouble landing a Maverick.

Hope your real good and PLF's. Have fun.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE

[gowlerk 1,903]

Ha! I'm thinking it is near Maverick sized. Here's another clue. The slider doesn't use the usual 3" white tape. Instead it's constructed with what appears to be black 3" type IV webbing. It also has a piece of 2" velcro sewn to it for collapsing the slider. I do remember seeing that on PD mains before they figured out draw strings.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[JerryBaumchen 1,047]

Hi gowlerk,

Re: A "Call Ralph" canopy

I can only provide some stuff that I have heard.

I have known Ralph since 1964 and if I know anything about him is that I know that he is a business man.

I 'understand' that for some time, back about then, he was having canopies built for him in South Africa. My money is that this is one of them.

Have fun with it,

JerryBaumchen

[stratostar 5]

Most likely a skymaster by PISA

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[ufk22 32]

Quote

Most likely a skymaster by PISA

All the Skymasters I've seen were 9 cell

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[stratostar 5]

Oh your right I forgot he said earlier 7 cell f-111 type. I've seen those call Ralph canopies before 15 yrs ago, so was trying to remember, then the talk of PISA came up and I'm pretty sure the one I had seen was a skymaster, sorry for the confusion.

you can't pay for kids schoolin' with love of skydiving! ~ Airtwardo

[SStewart 13]

If you want to know exactly what it is you should "call Ralph" that is what the label says isn't it?

Ralph never "re-labeled" anything. That was done at the factory by his request. I would bet it was made by Pisa but I seem to recall he had other companies put his label on the canopies he sold. He is still in business and running his DZ. His Phone number is listed in the classifieds in Parachutist.

Onward and Upward!

[IanHarrop 37]

http://www.callralph.hatley.com/

"Where troubles melt like lemon drops, away above the chimney tops, that's where you'll find me" Dorothy

[gowlerk 1,903]

Thanks, I couldn't find that. But I just sent him an email.

Ken

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[gowlerk 1,903]

I finally heard from the seller. He claims that he contacted Western about the canopy and that they told him it was a PD 210. I haven't heard from them yet, but I sent the email on Friday night.

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[gowlerk 1,903]

Two weeks and no answer from Ralph. I interpret this as " if you phone me, I'll tell you it's a PD 210, even though it is not. But if you want me to write it down, I'll just ignore you."

Always remember the brave children who died defending your right to bear arms. Freedom is not free.

[stayhigh 2]

Sometimes you pay for what you get.

Bernie Sanders for President 2016