C9 or T-10 rig?

[nigel99 143]

An odd question for riggers here. I learn't to jump on C9's (about a 100 jumps on a steerable version). I really loved the total peace and quiet under canopy, and I'm interested in seeing if it would be possible to put together a round rig.

There are a few challenges that I'd need to cover, so I'm looking for input. It may not be feasible/practical for me.

Firstly I'm quite happy to have a belly reserve and capewells for the rig - that's what I used to jump with.

A good friend is a licensed Packer A (legal to pack reserves in Australia for those that don't know). He has lots of experience packing round reserves, but I need to check if his rating covers rounds.

The biggest problem I can think of is an AAD. My DZ has a blanket rule that everyone jumps with an AAD. I've not discussed any of this with the Chief Instructor or DZ safety officer yet, as I want to gather more information first (hence this thread).

Another thing, I'm not in a hurry and I wouldn't jump a round in our summers with the winds that we get!

Naturally if it is possible the 'simplest' solution would be a square reserve and 3 ring cutaway system on the main.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[RiggerLee 61]

Base-R or what ever he's calling him self along with Jump shack are building a version of the old strong pop top belly reserve. Fully TSO'ed. I'm wondering if they have an instalation for a modern AAD? If not they're at least active in the market. I supose you could find an old Sentnal, that is if you could find cartradges and get it callibrated... They did instal them on the old belly warts. There were some piggy backs that people installed FXC's on that were from the "Round" eara.

One relitively modern option that comes to mind is a Strong Starlight Tandom rig. Tandom in the sence that the reserve was on the back. I think of this because that was what I learned to jump with as a student rig. I'm honestly not sure what they originally put in the main but the manta 288 rattled around in there and they had to instal a second set of gromets to make it tighter. It probbable held the later lower bulk PDA's. In this case a Star Light main. I don't know if you could get a full on PC with sleave to fit or not. If you did a dyper or bag/POD it might fit but you'd probable be better off looking for an RW PC or one of the other low bulk designs. I don't know how big you are but piglets with dypers pack up pretty small. They cam eaven fit into some of the larger "modern" rigs. You used yo see them in large wonder hogs. One cheap option would be a Mill free fall rig. Tom picked one up for $500 bucks compleate, actually I think it was missing the Ripcord but it was not demilled. Short of a tandom it's got the largest tray around that I can think of and would defanently hold a dypered round.

I honestly don't think you would enjoy jumping a 7TU bone crusher again. Honestly there are better rounds out there. Speaking of which did any one ever come up with real honest to god patern sets for a PC or any of the other clasic PDA's? I'm in a slow spell here between launches and my double neadle with a puller needs some exercise.

Lee

Lee
[email protected]
www.velocitysportswear.com

[mr2mk1g 10]

If you sacrifice the freefall could you just hook it to your current risers and direct bag deploy it on a hop and pop?

[nigel99 143]

Quote

If you sacrifice the freefall could you just hook it to your current risers and direct bag deploy it on a hop and pop?

I don't have the knowledge, to know how feasible that is. But it would be a nice option. I'm quite happy doing a static line type exit.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[pchapman 261]

AAD rules really make it tough to jump old gear.

One can still find old gear kicking around but it may be simpler to just jump an old main rather than old main/reserve/rig.

If going with a belly mount, and you can get around the stupid AAD rules, it is nice to have a decent more modern reserve too (especially if one isn't light), and get something like a diapered Strong Lopo. Nicer for deployment than some old military style reserves (even if the military ones are very strong). And the Strong Lopo is still tougher than the wimpy light weight round reserves skydivers used for a while.

For a main, something like a ParaCommander is a little more practical than a T-10 for providing some forward speed. I don't know about T-10s, but PC's land relatively soft. (And by being able to counter moderately low winds, that also reduces total velocity on impact.). Put it on 3 ring risers, with a bag and regular throw out pilot chute. (There are minor complications - crown line stowage, brake line positioning, but that's for later.)

One standard answer is to find old student gear to put a round main in. Even that may not be big enough, as a ParaCommander in a bag (not even a bulky sleeve) is quite a bit bigger than a ParaFoil 282 which I think offhand is bigger than a student canopy.

So then one would do some sewing to rebuild flaps to accommodate a larger canopy. An alternative to that is to build a separate main container that velcros on over top of the existing smaller main container, so one doesn't wreck the original rig, if it is ever going to be used for other canopies. That's what I did for an accuracy rig to convert it to a ParaCommander. (It was a tip I got from the Aussie style & accuracy team a decade back.)

[airtwardo 6]

How about an FXC for the reserve? I remember seeing them used 'back in the day' .

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[pchapman 261]

FXC's may indeed be kicking around and essentially free at any DZ that converted away from them. You might also figure out the proper mounting on a belly reserve.

The problem that skydiving authorities always insist on following manufacturer's directions for maintenance --- just as for one's Cypres. So then if you want to have a LEGAL AAD on the reserve, you're on the hook for the $160 or $200 ???? every 2 years for the disassembly & inspection at FXC Guardian, plus shipping.

That's not to say that I haven't thought about rigging up a KAP3 to a reserve and telling the authorities to prove to me that the 40 year old device needs maintenance.

[nigel99 143]

Peter thanks for the information. I'm not nostalgic for uncomfortable and heavy harness's!

I like the option of using a 'large' rig with a modified main pack-tray. So I'm going to look into that further.

There is a rigger in the US who sells un-used C9 canopies for a reasonable price, so the main is quite easy to take care of.

Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

[anj4de 0]

Hi...

If freefall is not required, just a beautiful ride under a quite round...I would suggest to get an SF-10A! The civilians may know it as FS-14. It's a state of the art round that is being used by the SOC and by the Forrest Service...and the canopies are available with very few jumps on them as surplus. There are some on E-bay right now that are new (0 jumps) and only cost 350$. I have 3 sets myself by now and I am not looking back to T-10s or MC1-1cs. They are just great parachutes...

cheers
Uwe

For once you have tasted flight you will walk the earth with your eyes turned skywards, for there you have been and there you will long to return.

-Leonardo da Vinci

[J-Rock 0]

If you can't get around the AAD thing you can get ahold of one of these. I don't see why you couldn't put a cypres two pin in it as it is basically a racer reserve container. Get a decent Lopo for cheap and you will be all set. Go to the jumpshack website and check it out, it's a chest reserve for the BaseR system and should work with any rig new or old that is set up with chest rings. Have fun landing the main

Im gonna need a bigger hammer....

[riggerrob 558]

You are repeating what "buddy" said earlier.

Just think ... a mere 35 years ago ... Dan Poynter's Pop-Top, chest-mounted reserve was the most fashionable reserve on the market. You could buy one with a Strong Lo-Po ... also sewn and sold by (the dear departed) Ted Strong.
The biggest (excuse the pun) advantage of the Pop-Top was its through-loops, which made it half as thick as a military reserve. If every man wore a Pop-Top, that could shave several seconds off the exit time for a Ten Man Speed Star Team!
A lesser advantage was the semi-submerged ripcord handle, that was`more difficult to pull accidentally.

That was back when (mid-1970s) most "skygods" were still jumping military-surplus, chest-mounted reserves.

[kd5xb 1]

If you get the right container, a Para Commander will fit nicely. Thirty years ago, I had a Wonderhog with a PC and a 24' flat reserve. Worked good -- even the "little" reserve let me down OK.

I'm a jumper. Even though I don't always have money for jumps, and may not ever own a rig again, I'll always be a jumper.

[councilman24 36]

If all you want is a round jump it's easy.

Get a Phantom 28 (or 26 or 24) or FFE Preserve I or III (20 year old ones have been retired, no don't start this argument), Strong Lopo 26, etc. Put on three ring risers and add a bag with a throw out PC. Lots of non collapsible PC hanging around.

A Phantom 28 will go in a rig for a 170 sabre. Probably one size smaller. Either use your rig or borrow one. A Phantom will fit, I expect the others will to. Hook it up to your rig and your ready to go with your square reserve and AAD. No reason not to freefall this rig. At your weight you should stand up.

My last round jump (and first since a busted up an ankle in 1987) was a few years ago at naked weight about 220lbs on a Phantom 28 in my Reflex. Terminal opening on a Phantom 28 using a D bag and not the diaper. If you have that many round jumps your accuracy will come right back. I have to admit that at my weight I was VERY GLAD I hit the pea gravel pit.

Don't know if there are APF rules against this but don't know why there should be. Unless they have a drop dead service date on mains.

Now if you want a nostalgia jump with belly wart and capewells then you've heard some ways above. The BaseR chest, based on the manual, uses a speed loop like a Racer and should be able to take a two cutter Cypres. But this a lot harder and/or more expensive than just putting one in your rig.

I have my Phantom hooked up ready to put in a rig right now. Finding the round might be a little hard. Look around. I've gathered a bunch but right now the only one on ebay is overpriced at $229.

I'm old for my age.
Terry Urban
D-8631
FAA DPRE