linebckr83 3 #51 December 20, 2012 I know why the mod was added and I didn't interpret anything. You asked for an example of a skyhook-related fatality and I listed one. I also wanted to point out how many things had to happen at once for this to happen, and how it is being prevented with the staging loop."Are you coming to the party? Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!" Flying Hellfish #828 Dudist #52 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisHoward 8 #52 December 20, 2012 QuoteI know why the mod was added and I didn't interpret anything. You asked for an example of a skyhook-related fatality and I listed one. I also wanted to point out how many things had to happen at once for this to happen, and how it is being prevented with the staging loop. Then you would agree that this actually is not a skyhook related fatality? As the skyhook played no part in causing this fatality. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ufk22 32 #53 December 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteI know why the mod was added and I didn't interpret anything. You asked for an example of a skyhook-related fatality and I listed one. I also wanted to point out how many things had to happen at once for this to happen, and how it is being prevented with the staging loop. Then you would agree that this actually is not a skyhook related fatality? As the skyhook played no part in causing this fatality. My understanding is this may or may not (but probably was) caused by the skyhook and its configuration at the time. The staging loop one only part of the modification, and one that was mandatory on tandems but optional on sport rigs. The big change was a new-differnt RLS/colins ribbon assembly. On the original skyhook the RSL ribbon ran from the riser connector to the colins loop and then on to the reserve pin/skyhook. After that incident, the design was changed. There are now 2 ribbons running from the riser connector, one to the pin/skyhook and a seperate one to the colins loop. Having a reserve deploy could pull on the main riser, but would not put any pull on the colins loop.This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linebckr83 3 #54 December 20, 2012 You are correct I forgot there was also a modification to the RSL lanyard. Either way, it was my understanding that, among many other variables, the skyhook partially contributed to the fatality which resulted in UPT making the modifications mentioned. Chris I am a fan of the skyhook and own one myself. I'm not hinting that they are unsafe, only that it was my understanding there has been a fatality in which the skyhook was partially to blame."Are you coming to the party? Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!" Flying Hellfish #828 Dudist #52 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChrisHoward 8 #55 December 20, 2012 Quote Chris I am a fan of the skyhook and own one myself. I'm not hinting that they are unsafe, only that it was my understanding there has been a fatality in which the skyhook was partially to blame. No offense taken at all. I still feel that the Skyhook being to blame in that particular incident was more than a little speculative. Ofcourse there is the possibilty that I don't even have a clue Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 31 #56 December 20, 2012 Quote As far as I understand it the theory of the skyhook backloading was entirely speculation. Sure it was. Unless you have it on video, everything is speculation. But speculation or not, the described scenario was definitely possible. What about the student in Chicago 2 years ago. Not a fatality , but serious injury. For its short life Skyhook has handful modifications and there are more to come. Not to mention the disconnection rate. When the Skyhook disconnects, it works as good as the normal RSL, just 5-6 times more expensive. Don't get me wrong. If you gonna do something stupid like cutting away below 500 ft, you'll be better with one, assuming that it will work as a MARD ,but no guarantees there. Other than that, I don't see the advantage."My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linebckr83 3 #57 December 20, 2012 QuoteNot to mention the disconnection rate. When the Skyhook disconnects, it works as good as the normal RSL, just 5-6 times more expensive. When would the skyhook disconnect and act as a normal rsl? The red safety tie thread prevents it from slipping off unless the reserve pc is activated."Are you coming to the party? Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!" Flying Hellfish #828 Dudist #52 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 31 #58 December 20, 2012 QuoteQuoteNot to mention the disconnection rate. When the Skyhook disconnects, it works as good as the normal RSL, just 5-6 times more expensive. When would the skyhook disconnect and act as a normal rsl? The red safety tie thread prevents it from slipping off unless the reserve pc is activated. I don't know. It just does . Here is a really nice POV video . http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?v=10150255643198247&set=o.64761516148&type=2&theater"My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linebckr83 3 #59 December 20, 2012 Right it comes off when the reserve pc is creating more drag than the malfunctioning main. Which is a pretty rare case but apparently it happens. The vast majority of the time it only disconnects when the reserve is activated without a main canopy out."Are you coming to the party? Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!" Flying Hellfish #828 Dudist #52 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 31 #60 December 20, 2012 QuoteRight it comes off when the reserve pc is creating more drag than the malfunctioning main. Which is a pretty rare case but apparently it happens. The vast majority of the time it only disconnects when the reserve is activated without a main canopy out. Not so rare as you think. I can send you more videos if you wish. I'd like to ask the people who buy the Skyhook so they can chop lower, can you be sure that the Skyhook will work as a MARD in your case? And if somebody can explain to me , how it's possible that a 3 sq.ft reserve PC will out drag 100+ sq ft main in less than a second.... The only time when Skyhook works 100% is the UPT promo video."My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhreeZone 14 #61 December 20, 2012 I've seen cases where the red seal loop was not super tight and the skyhook disconnected after a cutaway. The seal thread was found still in place but the skyhook had slipped off.Yesterday is history And tomorrow is a mystery Parachutemanuals.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
linebckr83 3 #62 December 21, 2012 Is there anybody with editing software that can analyze that video super slow? I wonder if the skyhook could pull on the bridle and activate deployment while the pc catches enough air to be trailing in the same direction but not actually overpowering the main. I think there are far more videos of skyhooks working as a mard compared to acting like a regular rsl. Thanks for bringing up the possibility of this happening though, I wasn't aware. My skyhook was a free option, I'm not sure if I would have paid the $250 for it (I bought a new rig from Karnage Krew before Gary went down the shitter). Of the skyhook cutaways I've seen in person, I'm glad I have it just in case but I didn't change my hard deck any. I think that's the thing to take away here. Sure, having a skyhook means you can generally count on quicker reserve deployments, but it shouldn't be banked on. Like any other piece of safety equipment."Are you coming to the party? Oh I'm coming, but I won't be there!" Flying Hellfish #828 Dudist #52 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Joellercoaster 6 #63 December 21, 2012 QuoteThe vast majority of the time it only disconnects when the reserve is activated without a main canopy out. Not so rare as you think. I can send you more videos if you wish. Indeed. I realise the plural of 'anecdote' is not 'evidence', but since everyone else here has provided little of either: my only Skyhook cutaway resulted in a disconnection and ordinary RSL deployment. It was nothing extreme, just asymmetric twists on a semi-elliptical loaded about 1.7. I've watched at least one other very similar chop with the same result. Make of this what you will. I still think the Skyhook and Collins lanyard are impressive innovations, but implying that anyone who's not sure they're a good deal foolish is wrong.-- "I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan "You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DougH 270 #64 December 21, 2012 Quote Almost looks like the reserve pilot chute beats the skyhook as you suggested. Looks like a fucking nightmare to me, and it makes me like the Strong drogue setup much better!"The restraining order says you're only allowed to touch me in freefall" =P Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Looks like a fucking nightmare to me, and it makes me like the Strong drogue setup much better!
=P
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