scottbre 0 #26 December 19, 2002 Just like the first movie, it was OK and too long. "Your mother's full of stupidjuice!" My Art Project Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #27 December 19, 2002 I hate directors!!! The movie was very good. Had me completely entertained and then ended while I'm at the edge of my seat waiting.... They definitely ended the movie in a way that will ensure I go see the last one.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #28 December 19, 2002 The trilogy deals with Good and Evil on a cosmic scale the Last War for a society trying to avoid slipping into a literal darkness of Evil. It had to end that way. I mean they are good, but saving Middle Earth all in one 3 hour movie....well that would be a lot. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
VivaHeadDown 0 #29 December 19, 2002 Good movie. Very happy with it. Liked the added scenes, gave it a little different direction rather than just deleting scenes and asking you to follow along anyway. Looking forward to the rest. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #30 December 19, 2002 Work is boring so I might as well write about something I know about Film and print are dramatically different media. I think that almost all the scenes were 100% in keeping with the spirit of the book. I think one of the best example's is Faramir taking Frodo to Osgiliath. In the book Faramir was in fact going to Osgiliath to try and help hold the ford of the river. That is why he had to make a judgement call and let Sam, Frodo, and Gollum go. He was tempted by the ring, and waivered for a moment. The only difference is that in the book, this all happens in the cave and you 'read' his mental turmoil. Well in a book, you can relate a minute of thoughts over pages without seeming cheesy. In film it is much harder to do without resorting to narration, thinking out loud, etc. So I think that Faramir taking them to Osgiliath and then choosing to release them was symbolic of the same idea. (syyyyymbolism -- AggieDave/Boondock saints ) Although I am not really a fan of the enhancement of Arwen/Aragon, I think it also tends to show the same thing. A director always wlks a line of two much foreshadowing appearing cheesy (Attack of the Clones anyone?) and foreshadowing so little that only die hard literary fans follow the history behind the plot. I think that Jackson did a masterful job of walking that line. -- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #31 December 19, 2002 I liked it but was disappointed at the lack of drama in the battle scenes. They added humor when there should have been none. It didnt have the dramatic effect like the scene where boromir died in FOTR. I liked it though but find myself looking forward to the last one rather than seeing this one again. For those who havent seen it check out the FOTR extended dvd. Some very good scenes that should not have been left out of the movie. Johnny Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,618 #32 December 19, 2002 QuoteI liked it but was disappointed at the lack of drama in the battle scenes. They added humor when there should have been none. It didnt have the dramatic effect like the scene where boromir died in FOTR. I liked it though but find myself looking forward to the last one rather than seeing this one again. For those who havent seen it check out the FOTR extended dvd. Some very good scenes that should not have been left out of the movie. Johnny Did you find the hidden "extra" Council of Elrond scene?... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,618 #33 December 19, 2002 Quote Work is boring so I might as well write about something I know about Film and print are dramatically different media. I think that almost all the scenes were 100% in keeping with the spirit of the book. Ok, why did the trip from Edoras and the events at Helm's Deep expand from 4.7% of the book to about 33% of the movie? That's not minor change due to the nature of the medium, nor in keeping with the spirit of the book, IMO.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #34 December 20, 2002 I dont know. I watched the movie on the 2 dvd's straight through with the extra scenes. Is there a another spot for extra stuff or is it on the other 2 dvds of behind the scenes stuff? Johnny Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,618 #35 December 20, 2002 QuoteI dont know. I watched the movie on the 2 dvd's straight through with the extra scenes. Is there a another spot for extra stuff or is it on the other 2 dvds of behind the scenes stuff? Johnny You'd know if you found it! It doesn't come up if you just play through. It's on disk 1.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
johnny1488 1 #36 December 20, 2002 How do I get to it? Johnny Johnny --"This ain't no book club, we're all gonna die!" Mike Rome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kallend 1,618 #37 December 20, 2002 QuoteHow do I get to it? Use scene select, and go one beyond the last scene shown on disk 1 (council of elrond). It's "hidden" so kids don't come across it easily. The only reason I found it was because I had a new DVD player and pressed the wrong buttons in error.... The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
misskriss 0 #38 December 20, 2002 what can I say....i just would like to get crazy with Aragorn, Frodo, and Legolas.. yummmmmy Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #39 December 20, 2002 QuoteOk, why did the trip from Edoras and the events at Helm's Deep expand from 4.7% of the book to about 33% of the movie?It's called "artistic licence" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #40 December 20, 2002 QuoteQuoteJust saw the movie and wasn't too happy. Should have been called "The Battle of Helm's Deep". Helm's Deep occupies 15 pages in my copy of the book, out of 320 (that's less than 5%) but it must be fully 1/4 of the movie. They omitted the reunion of Gandalf, Legolas and Gimli with the young hobbits, the Palantir, Shelob's Lair, and the choices of Master Samwise. They invented some mushy stuff about Aragorn and Arwen, and whole lot about Faramir kidnapping Frodo and Sam and taking them to Osgiliath. Also invented was a bit about Aragorn falling off a cliff during an ambush by wargs on the journey from Edoras to Helm's Deep. The rumor is the third movie will be about 3 1/2 hours long. I am not a purist of the books, realizing that anytime a book is translated to film there will always be something lost, omitted, condensed or done with "re-imagination." However, I do feel there could have been some better choices made story wise for TTT (esp the part about Faramir), and I wonder how they are going to fit everything in for Return of the King. There is just way to much story left (I'm guessing the Oathbreakers will be cut from the story). I think ending with the events at Orthank and Frodo's run-in with Shelob (along with Samwise's "mistake") would have made a much better cliffhanger._________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skygirlpc 0 #41 December 20, 2002 I jsut saw it last night and I loved it! Funny, because I wasn't a huge fan of the first one but I really enoyed Two Towers. I haven't read the books but still really enjoyed the movie! Danielle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites BikerBabe 0 #42 December 20, 2002 I don't know, ending on Gollum's, "We'll let her do it...ssshhhhheeee can do it for ussss..." is pretty good cliffhanger-wise. For the non-book-readers, they leave thinking, "Who the hell is "she" and how can she kill Frodo and Sam??" Yes there were changes, but you have to remember that what works in a book may not work in a movie, such as Faramir's inner turmoil over the ring, his brother's death, etc. Plus, most of Faramir's dialogue was straight from the book. As a matter of fact, the screenwriter, Philippa Boyens, explains this a lot better than I can (this is a paraphrase by a reviewer who spoke with her): "My good friend Matthew went to the NYC premiere and had a personal chat with screenwriter Philippa Boyens afterward. He had the chance to talk with her about the intense changes to Faramir. According to his report, Philippa "had some interesting things to say on the above -- basically saying that Faramir's character is completely static in the books, and thus wouldn't translate well filmically. She wanted to extend his character to give him more of a journey, and also seemed to imply that it would seem incongruous were Faramir immediately sea-green incorruptible; whereas all other Men in the film (even Aragorn) definitely have to wrestle with their conscience to a greater or lesser extent." As for the other changes, they serve mostly as a means to introduce material that wasn't included by Tolkein in the books, but WAS in the appendices or the Silmarillion (yes, I'm a geek). Aragorn/Arwen and Arwen's choice, for example. Book readers know about Beren and Luthien. Movie-goers may not understand the choice Arwen must make, and it needed to be addressed. As for elves at Helm's deep...there was not enough time to introduce the concept of other rangers or have them come to Helm's deep without adding several more precious minutes of film. So they were replaced by people already introduced. I thought it worked. I go in expecting a good movie, rather than a perfect translation from book to film. It CAN'T happen. It would be a horrible film if they tried. Look at the first Harry Potter for a good example. Some will never be happy, because Peter Jackon's vision of a hobbit or of an Ent or of Gandalf is different than theirs. Oh well...if we all thought alike, this world would be a pretty boring place.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ChasingBlueSky 0 #43 December 20, 2002 QuoteI don't know, ending on Gollum's, "We'll let her do it...ssshhhhheeee can do it for ussss..." is pretty good cliffhanger-wise. I have no problem that this is Peter Jackson's vision of LOTR. He was the one that took the time, energy, etc to get this finally on film. Therefore, in my opinion, he has the right to make some changes. As I mentioned - I am NOT a purist for the books. If I was, I would be upset with the Elves at Helms Deep(I would have loved to seen the rangers, however), Wargs showing up (they were only in the Hobbitt), Oliphants (only in ROTK), and not showing the theft of Shadowfax. In my opinion these changes do help make the world the movies take place in seem a bit real, and the danger of Saurman of Many Colors (yet another thing they don't use) seem that more present. The Elves at Helms Deep actually address a long standing question of mine from the books. Why at the dawn of the 4th age did the elves decide they no longer wanted to fight? It couldn't just have been from the possible destruction of the ring and the end of magic, since that would have happened at the dawn of the third age if the last alliance was successful. I have started to read the Similarian to help flesh these questions out (and to read the extra stories about Aragon/Arwen). Phillipa's explanation of Faramir helps me understand that change a bit more. I always enjoyed Faramir's character and the stark contrast between him and his brother and father. I guess it does still set up for the events with his father in ROTK. However, I am am disappointed with the scenes at Gondor. That environment just doesn't seem as glorious as all the other locations in the movies to date. I just hope Minus Tirith looks better. Bo_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyingferret 0 #44 December 20, 2002 Actually....Wargs did attack the fellowship before the attempt to pass Caradhras, or at least what appeared to be wargs. I am just arguing trivia now. Bottom line: I was very impressed and think that most of the changes just moved things around without really changing anything. I am even happier with this one than FOTR.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pds 0 #45 December 20, 2002 you guys are doin just fine geeking out on the details, so i will just say it seemed a little more of the same, but all in all a good watch.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #46 December 20, 2002 Think "head-down base-jump with swordplay". Very exciting scene. I was VERY happy with the movie. I've read the trilogy three times, and I thought Jackson did a SUPERB job. Golum was done well, Treebeard was done well, wolves were done well. Helm's Deep was as good as you can ask for. A few differences from the book, but nothing too important.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Guest #47 December 20, 2002 Quote I am even happier with this one than FOTR. So is the TomatoMeter. Didn't think The Fellowship of the Ring could be exceeded, but it has. Left the theater last nite going "Wow...wow...wow..." In a word - phenomenal. It's an epic for the ages. If AMPAS snubs Peter Jackson again, I'm personally going to go to LA and rip out Jack Valenti's black heart. "The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #48 December 20, 2002 QuoteWhy at the dawn of the 4th age did the elves decide they no longer wanted to fight? My take on this was the the elves prophesized that they were at the end of their time on middle earth, and further conflict was a waste of life. Elves can only die from battle or a broken heart, and they didn't want anyone else to die needlessly. The elves not only see the future, they kind of live in it - since they are immortal, their idea of time is completely different than ours. The whole pseudo-science about if time is really linear, or do humans just perceive it that way.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites LouDiamond 1 #49 December 22, 2002 I just found this unofficial photo of the lord of the rings, two towers. It's quite a cool shot "It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riddler 0 #50 December 22, 2002 Please attach it Trapped on the surface of a sphere. 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skygirlpc 0 #41 December 20, 2002 I jsut saw it last night and I loved it! Funny, because I wasn't a huge fan of the first one but I really enoyed Two Towers. I haven't read the books but still really enjoyed the movie! Danielle Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BikerBabe 0 #42 December 20, 2002 I don't know, ending on Gollum's, "We'll let her do it...ssshhhhheeee can do it for ussss..." is pretty good cliffhanger-wise. For the non-book-readers, they leave thinking, "Who the hell is "she" and how can she kill Frodo and Sam??" Yes there were changes, but you have to remember that what works in a book may not work in a movie, such as Faramir's inner turmoil over the ring, his brother's death, etc. Plus, most of Faramir's dialogue was straight from the book. As a matter of fact, the screenwriter, Philippa Boyens, explains this a lot better than I can (this is a paraphrase by a reviewer who spoke with her): "My good friend Matthew went to the NYC premiere and had a personal chat with screenwriter Philippa Boyens afterward. He had the chance to talk with her about the intense changes to Faramir. According to his report, Philippa "had some interesting things to say on the above -- basically saying that Faramir's character is completely static in the books, and thus wouldn't translate well filmically. She wanted to extend his character to give him more of a journey, and also seemed to imply that it would seem incongruous were Faramir immediately sea-green incorruptible; whereas all other Men in the film (even Aragorn) definitely have to wrestle with their conscience to a greater or lesser extent." As for the other changes, they serve mostly as a means to introduce material that wasn't included by Tolkein in the books, but WAS in the appendices or the Silmarillion (yes, I'm a geek). Aragorn/Arwen and Arwen's choice, for example. Book readers know about Beren and Luthien. Movie-goers may not understand the choice Arwen must make, and it needed to be addressed. As for elves at Helm's deep...there was not enough time to introduce the concept of other rangers or have them come to Helm's deep without adding several more precious minutes of film. So they were replaced by people already introduced. I thought it worked. I go in expecting a good movie, rather than a perfect translation from book to film. It CAN'T happen. It would be a horrible film if they tried. Look at the first Harry Potter for a good example. Some will never be happy, because Peter Jackon's vision of a hobbit or of an Ent or of Gandalf is different than theirs. Oh well...if we all thought alike, this world would be a pretty boring place.Never meddle in the affairs of dragons, for you are crunchy and taste good with ketchup! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ChasingBlueSky 0 #43 December 20, 2002 QuoteI don't know, ending on Gollum's, "We'll let her do it...ssshhhhheeee can do it for ussss..." is pretty good cliffhanger-wise. I have no problem that this is Peter Jackson's vision of LOTR. He was the one that took the time, energy, etc to get this finally on film. Therefore, in my opinion, he has the right to make some changes. As I mentioned - I am NOT a purist for the books. If I was, I would be upset with the Elves at Helms Deep(I would have loved to seen the rangers, however), Wargs showing up (they were only in the Hobbitt), Oliphants (only in ROTK), and not showing the theft of Shadowfax. In my opinion these changes do help make the world the movies take place in seem a bit real, and the danger of Saurman of Many Colors (yet another thing they don't use) seem that more present. The Elves at Helms Deep actually address a long standing question of mine from the books. Why at the dawn of the 4th age did the elves decide they no longer wanted to fight? It couldn't just have been from the possible destruction of the ring and the end of magic, since that would have happened at the dawn of the third age if the last alliance was successful. I have started to read the Similarian to help flesh these questions out (and to read the extra stories about Aragon/Arwen). Phillipa's explanation of Faramir helps me understand that change a bit more. I always enjoyed Faramir's character and the stark contrast between him and his brother and father. I guess it does still set up for the events with his father in ROTK. However, I am am disappointed with the scenes at Gondor. That environment just doesn't seem as glorious as all the other locations in the movies to date. I just hope Minus Tirith looks better. Bo_________________________________________ you can burn the land and boil the sea, but you can't take the sky from me.... I WILL fly again..... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingferret 0 #44 December 20, 2002 Actually....Wargs did attack the fellowship before the attempt to pass Caradhras, or at least what appeared to be wargs. I am just arguing trivia now. Bottom line: I was very impressed and think that most of the changes just moved things around without really changing anything. I am even happier with this one than FOTR.-- All the flaming and trolls of wreck dot with a pretty GUI. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pds 0 #45 December 20, 2002 you guys are doin just fine geeking out on the details, so i will just say it seemed a little more of the same, but all in all a good watch.namaste, motherfucker. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #46 December 20, 2002 Think "head-down base-jump with swordplay". Very exciting scene. I was VERY happy with the movie. I've read the trilogy three times, and I thought Jackson did a SUPERB job. Golum was done well, Treebeard was done well, wolves were done well. Helm's Deep was as good as you can ask for. A few differences from the book, but nothing too important.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #47 December 20, 2002 Quote I am even happier with this one than FOTR. So is the TomatoMeter. Didn't think The Fellowship of the Ring could be exceeded, but it has. Left the theater last nite going "Wow...wow...wow..." In a word - phenomenal. It's an epic for the ages. If AMPAS snubs Peter Jackson again, I'm personally going to go to LA and rip out Jack Valenti's black heart. "The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #48 December 20, 2002 QuoteWhy at the dawn of the 4th age did the elves decide they no longer wanted to fight? My take on this was the the elves prophesized that they were at the end of their time on middle earth, and further conflict was a waste of life. Elves can only die from battle or a broken heart, and they didn't want anyone else to die needlessly. The elves not only see the future, they kind of live in it - since they are immortal, their idea of time is completely different than ours. The whole pseudo-science about if time is really linear, or do humans just perceive it that way.Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
LouDiamond 1 #49 December 22, 2002 I just found this unofficial photo of the lord of the rings, two towers. It's quite a cool shot "It's just skydiving..additional drama is not required" Some people dream about flying, I live my dream SKYMONKEY PUBLISHING Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riddler 0 #50 December 22, 2002 Please attach it Trapped on the surface of a sphere. XKCD Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
