koppel 3 #1 October 20, 2012 Timestamp: Down Under - Saturday morning ie Manufacturer Closed Anyone out there know if NAA have an approval for the use of a Vigil in their Centaurus container? Manual appears rather dated and only notes that the rig is Cypres ready. Have a customer that needs rig for training for competition urgently.I like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
NovaTTT 1 #2 October 20, 2012 My understanding is the Vigil is compatible with rigs that are configured for a CYPRES. From the Vigil II manual (emphasis added). Similar instructions are found in the Vigil manual: The Vigil® has been designed to be compatible with most sport rigs on the market today. If a suitable installation kit for an electronic AAD is not yet installed by the rig manufacturer, a Vigil® Installation Kit (pocket, loop, washer and cutter retainer) can be supplied and installed in your container by the rig manufacturer or by an authorized rigger. It can be easily sewn into any harness/container system designed for an electronic AAD. All reserve closing loops currently on the market that are similar to Vigil® Dyneema or the Spectra CSR style #9512-300 or the Cypres™ Loop (Spectra Cord) are acceptable for use by the installation of the Vigil®. The Vigil®’s cutter must be positioned as specified by the rig manufacturer’s instructions for electronic AAD’s."Even in a world where perfection is unattainable, there's still a difference between excellence and mediocrity." Gary73 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 3 #3 October 20, 2012 Thank you for the reply Nova Bottom line is some manufacturers require a seperate authority for each brand of device. Others leave it open by not giving approvals and leaving it to the rigger. Vigil have allowed the use of an existing cypres installation kit but that does not mean the container manufacturer has. This does not answer the question above. At this point I can either pack without installing the vigil or not pack itI like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #4 October 20, 2012 So the question is, is there any rule requiring a container company to approve AADs? (Rather than just allowing them to do so.) I can't think of any FAA rule, but I could be wrong. The PIA's statement in 2011 about the Argus mess doesn't pin it down one way or another, even though it talks about container manufacturers' approval of AADs. (http://www.pia.com/TechnicalArgusDocuments/ToAllHarnessContainerManufacturers.pdf) PIA TS-112 "Harness/Container – AAD Installation Test Protocol" is about approvals, but doesn't address whether any AAD must be. Nor is the test protocol required. Just my opinion: If you think there isn't a requirement, then pack the rig up, because the manual doesn't say you can't. Also, even if there were an FAA requirement, does that matter in Australia? You probably only need to make sure you aren't breaking the container manufacturers' rules, if the APF requires you to follow them. If you don't care about the FAA, then you have an easier time, since the manual doesn't prohibit Vigils. The only issue would be is if you agonize over some statement that CYPRES' are approved, and does that imply that others not mentioned are not? (Whether or not they came on the market after the manual was written.) (NAA has some other compatibility issues: Maybe just my computer, but Java or something on their site crashed both Firefox and Chrome...) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 3 #5 October 20, 2012 Hey pchapman There you hit the nail on the head. Checking the PDF manual provided me by the company previously shows it was outsourced and is version 1.3 but has no date so can't be used to determine whether it was printed prior to other AAD's being released. APF require me to follow manufacturers instructions and is becoming closer to the methodology of FAA through an aligning of CASA with FAA. This leads me to choose the "cypres is approved" means cypres and not other AAD's. Picky but more obvious and no chance of re-visiting me in the future. Solved the time factor by juggling AAD's and rigs and installing a Cypres Will wait for reply next week. Cheers for input. I like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #6 October 21, 2012 Quote Timestamp: Down Under - Saturday morning ie Manufacturer Closed Anyone out there know if NAA have an approval for the use of a Vigil in their Centaurus container? Manual appears rather dated and only notes that the rig is Cypres ready. ... .................................................................... Cypres was the first modern, electronic AAD and all the later models merely copied Cypres' configuration and pockets (Argus, FXC Astra, Vigil). Cypres is the only modern AAD manufacturer to publish a manual on how to sew AAD pockets into a variety of containers. I have sewn Cypres pockets into hundreds of containers, but ... some of them ended up with Argus, or Astra, or Vigil AADs ... don't know how that happened ... nudge ... nudge ... wink ... wink ... say no more ... say no more ... IOW all the later electronic AADs are compatible with Cypres pockets and closing loops. Chances are, your Centarus manual was written after the invention of Cypres, but before the introduction of Vigil. If I were you, I would stuff the Vigil into the Cypres pockets and pack that reserve. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
koppel 3 #7 October 22, 2012 Quote Quote Timestamp: Down Under - Saturday morning ie Manufacturer Closed Anyone out there know if NAA have an approval for the use of a Vigil in their Centaurus container? Manual appears rather dated and only notes that the rig is Cypres ready. ... .................................................................... Cypres was the first modern, electronic AAD and all the later models merely copied Cypres' configuration and pockets (Argus, FXC Astra, Vigil). Cypres is the only modern AAD manufacturer to publish a manual on how to sew AAD pockets into a variety of containers. I have sewn Cypres pockets into hundreds of containers, but ... some of them ended up with Argus, or Astra, or Vigil AADs ... don't know how that happened ... nudge ... nudge ... wink ... wink ... say no more ... say no more ... IOW all the later electronic AADs are compatible with Cypres pockets and closing loops. Chances are, your Centarus manual was written after the invention of Cypres, but before the introduction of Vigil. If I were you, I would stuff the Vigil into the Cypres pockets and pack that reserve. sure thing... except there are manufacturers that require a specific approval for each and every AAD model to be installed and that do not allow others... or rather there are/were some that allow Cypres but not Vigil-Argus-M2 etc Its nit picking mostly but I try and lead by example and if that means that I cant pack a rig there and then so be it, the sky isnt going anywhere :)I like my canopy... ...it lets me down. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
