RevJim 0 #51 January 23, 2003 Quote Your reading comprehension is failing you! I said it's a skydive. It is. I never said it made the person a skydiver. Actually it is my written expression that's failing me... That's what I was trying to say, that it's not a skydive. It's a "parachute jump" in my book. That's not to say that it's not fucking cool and that the person doing it has notably larger prodigal balls than any tandem-passenger. I guess many of those on the Pro Swoop Tour have very few skydives, huh? All those parachute rides don't count, right? Quote If you think it's the freefall, and not the self control that makes a skydiver, should we call all those one tandem wonders "skydivers"? FUCK NO! FUCK NO! Perhaps the combination of the two that defines a skydiver? You exit a plane without anyone being attatched to you in any way, ie:No tandem master and/or AFF JM to save your ass, you make it to the ground, manifest, go back and do it again...you are a skydiver. Quote S/L students take their own lives in their hands. 1 S/L jump does not a skydiver make, but a few sure as hell does. One who performs a skydive is not necessarily a skydiver? Ah, the good'ol debate on the definition of a skydiver... You know, we could continue this all night.All day here. It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #52 January 23, 2003 Erno you're cracking me up I did static line progression because it's the only progression my DZ offered at the time. We now have Tandem progression and I would indeed recommend it. But the thing about S/L is that you are always on your own. Thus, there is no 'resiliance' factor. From your first jump, nobody can make it work for you... Only you. That's why I recommend the S/L progression to people I know will keep a cool head. It will save you major $$$ if you just get the "sack o' shit" jumps done and then your 5, 10 and 20 sec freefalls Nick My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #53 January 23, 2003 Quote You exit a plane without anyone being attatched to you in any way, ie:No tandem master and/or AFF JM to save your ass, you make it to the ground, manifest, go back and do it again...you are a skydiver. Yes if you are the Tandem master,or else you are an passenger on a skydive.. You aint the driver just becours you are in the car rigthBut the make a Skydive... Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #54 January 23, 2003 Quote Quote You know, we could continue this all night. You will lose,its only 0341pm here 9:04 a.m. here. Bet I could stay up longer posting about this....It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #55 January 23, 2003 Quote Quote You exit a plane without anyone being attatched to you in any way, ie:No tandem master and/or AFF JM to save your ass, you make it to the ground, manifest, go back and do it again...you are a skydiver. Yes if you are the Tandem master,or else you are an passenger on a skydive.. You aint the driver just becours you are in the car rigthBut the make a Skydive... Thank you Faber! Exactly what I was saying. They are all skydives, but you need to do it ALONE more than once to be a skydiver!It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #56 January 23, 2003 BAD Suz! Bad! Bad Suz! hehehe Deep breaths, visualize the outcome, develop muscle memory, and it'll happen."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #57 January 23, 2003 QuoteFrom your first jump, nobody can make it work for you... Only you. I agree,and hva to say(sorry Suz)that many AFF jumpers(at least here),are a bit scared to preform a solo,even while they have been there. They also often are afraid of jumping off in "low"altitude(thinking around 3300ft).Even while they have plenty of time... But they fly better than a s/l student,in freefall Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #58 January 23, 2003 Quote I guess many of those on the Pro Swoop Tour have very few skydives, huh? All those parachute rides don't count, right? The same could be then said about the crew-doggies, but no... it's the rope. Anyone can fall out(or be "helped" out) of an airplane, when the static-line will deploy for you. It still doesn't make you a skydiver. Quote You exit a plane without anyone being attatched to you in any way, ie:No tandem master and/or AFF JM... ...Or a S/L JM attached to you via the "umbilical cord" and the plane... Yup, when you exit the aircraft without anyone or anything attached to you, you're a skydiver. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
KawiZX900 0 #59 January 23, 2003 dont drink all night the night before. breathe deeply and relax Accelerate hard to get them looking, then slam on the fronts and rollright beside the car, hanging the back wheel at eye level for a few seconds. Guaranteed reaction- Dave Sonsky Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #60 January 23, 2003 still trying,huh... Quote when you exit the aircraft without anyone or anything attached to you, you're a skydiver. Im not sure i want to be a Skydiver then..i really need my gearSounds like BASE are safer Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ernokaikkonen 0 #61 January 23, 2003 >Im not sure i want to be a Skydiver then..i really need my gear LOL! Touche... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #62 January 23, 2003 During the statc line progression, I did not ever refer myself as a skydiver until I did my first freefall. At 5 seconds, some could argue that I was not by then, I had already jumped out of a plane 6 times (attached = no-skydive) and planned on doing it some more. IMHO, you are not a skydiver until you get out of the plane unattached. I consider AFF students to be skydivers once they've made a couple. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CornishChris 5 #63 January 23, 2003 I did a tandem... ...then 5 S/L jumps... ...got bored with UK weather and 'wind over's all the time... ...did AFF. I disagree that S/L is cheaper - can be equally expensive if it takes you time (if in the UK you end u waiting months in between each jump and not progressing as happens a lot) but it does get you used to getting out the door at a reasonably loe height. I think the AFF course in Oz has too much tandem too it but I think the 3 hop n pops (5K, 4K, 3K) are a great idea. Just enjoy it - remember, you are paying so get the most out of it you can and don't be afraid to fail - it's no big thing CJP Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #64 January 23, 2003 you are even harder than erno... then you can take off 8jumps of my # at my first "freefall" i went 2,5sek from 4500fti were afraid of the clouds,they looked hard to me.first time i were in an airplane i jumped out of it first time i landed whith one we had motor problems. Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Vallerina 2 #65 January 23, 2003 QuoteI disagree that S/L is cheaper - can be equally expensive In the long run, maybe. However, it is much easier to scrape up $35 a week than $170 a week. I don't know of many college students that could've stayed as current with AFF as they were on static line.There's a thin line between Saturday night and Sunday morning Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mindygirl 0 #66 January 23, 2003 Ok...My home dropzone must take it really easy on us. The students here can't fail. No matter how bad you do on any of the levels you move on to the next one and after you have completed the course, the AFF instructor will keep jumping with you and trying to help you, but he doesn't charge anything for it. He is a really cool guy though. There was a guy that came out and was doing absolutely horrible on his AFF jumps. As soon as Dave(instructor) let him go he would flip over on his back and be completely out of control. Dave jumped with him alot and did everything he could but nothing seemed to help. Finally Dave decided to let the guy start going solo. Dave was doing nothing but videoing him flipping out of control. And the guy was pulling at the right altitude. So, now we have a guy at the dz with 50 jumps who is still out of control. He is actually dangerous to be in the air with... Wow! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bluefingers 0 #67 January 23, 2003 Quote You exit a plane without anyone being attatched to you in any way, ie:No tandem master and/or AFF JM to save your ass, you make it to the ground, manifest, go back and do it again...you are a skydiver. I like your thinking ALthough I have to agree with what others are saying, s/l sack of potatoes - parachutist. Leave the plane on your own and pull your own ripcord .... newbie skydiver with shitloads to learn. And S/L is waaaaay cheaper. I went on and off the rope a bit but in total I have done 22 x S/L, 6 x 3sec, 2 x 5sec, 2 x10sec. (can you say perseverance!) I've still spent less than what I would have on AFF. (but AFF is quicker) I've jumped out of a plane 32 times, but in my very humble opinion, i've only skydived once. That was on sunday when I heard the wind for the first time Kerry Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #68 January 23, 2003 Quote The students here can't fail. No matter how bad you do on any of the levels you move on to the next one sad to you guysSo if a student make his/hers Aff jumps there,and actualy cant the stuff,and move away then you lot lousy jumpers,not good to the student!!! The reson you need to complete is that you need to be sure that you can it.. Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deuce 1 #69 January 23, 2003 Suz, there's a lot of stuff planned into the dive that's not in the Targeted Learning Objective. You only have to complete each TLO one time. What are they on #4? Just make sure you complete those and then enjoy the view! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Blue2003 0 #70 January 23, 2003 Hey, I have been trying to pass AFF since last April. I started working at the drop zone at level 3. We do it like above, 1,2,3 two jump masters 4, 5,6 7, and 8 with one jump master. We had to do two tandems and pull to be cleared onto AFF. Anyway, I have been on level 5 since Aug. Everything gets in the way. Money, kids, my own stress. I went to Eloy to complete AFF and Pulled ligaments in my ankle on my recurrancy jump. I had landed all my other jumps standing up. Who knew. Well I'll try again when the Doctor clears me. Like someone said the sky isn't going anywhere. Nothing replaces free fall and canapy for me. No matter how long it takes I have to be in the sky. In the meantime since it is 10 degrees I read my magazines and watch many videos. It is good for feeding my skydiver soul. This seasonno working at Drop Zone till AFF is done."Cloudy Skies look different through skydivers eyes. Is that a hole in the clouds I see?" Let's get driving! Blue Skies and Sweet Dreams Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mindygirl 0 #71 January 23, 2003 Quotesad to you guysSo if a student make his/hers Aff jumps there,and actualy cant the stuff,and move away then you lot lousy jumpers,not good to the student!!! The reson you need to complete is that you need to be sure that you can it.. The instructor keeps jumping with them, just doesn't charge after the first nine jumps. Wow! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Faber 0 #72 January 23, 2003 QuoteThe instructor keeps jumping with them, just doesn't charge after the first nine jumps. I can see what you say,his a nice guy.. BUT,when this student goes to a Boogi,and show a complete logcard(or what you use).They say go afther the signs in the book,while the student migth aint ready to go solo,or there comes a problem.The student migth get hurt,and then what? To do that kind rigth way,he would get mony for the first 9 jumps,and sign for the levels the student are cleared to,then keep going not taking mony for his jumps. It not a law to get mony for a job,but its a law that your sign says ok for your job...He can get in BIG trouble by doing what he does...even while his a nice guy,and want to help Stay safe Stefan Faber Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Sebazz1 2 #73 January 23, 2003 Performance anxiety is a killer... You have to focus, breath, and relax. That's all. Have fun and kick some @ss! Think loose... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enrique 0 #74 January 23, 2003 ...I can see myself still repeating AFF4... Be careful there! The mind is our most powerful tool. If you can see yourself doing something, you probably will. Why don't you lose the negative picture in your mind and trade it for a positive one (i.e., enjoying your canopy ride because you kicked ass during your freefal and you feel confident you PASSED!!!) Try it. It might just work! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kopelen 0 #75 January 23, 2003 Hmmm, I see a pattern here for many people posting on DZ.com that are AFF lvl 4 repeats......failure. You all make it sound like it's the end of the world, it isn't!! This sport like many is about learning, so if you are worried about having to repeat a level then maybe you should take up another hobby!! FYI I voluntarily redid a level six because the instructor said I was a go to the next level, but I felt like a needed to work more, her first response was that will cost you more money, my response was it could cost me my life!!!! So if you are not willing to spend the time, money, and effort then you should definitely consider another sport!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
