outofit 0 #1 January 28, 2003 i guess i kind of ignored the reality of it but from all the posts of those being activated i guess war is upon us once again. let us be vigilant in our prayers for our service men and women who r protecting our everyday freedoms! GOD BLESS AMERICA! It is better to be dead and cool than alive and uncool! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #2 January 28, 2003 War is coming? I didn't even know it was breathing hard yet... Ok, seriously, yup, we're on the dawn of a new war in a new era, after the loss of inocence of the United States (the first major terrorist attack on domestic soil by foriegn nationals), so my thoughts and prayers are with those fighting to keep our lives the way they are!--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #3 January 28, 2003 We'll all know for sure in more detail tonight I guess. IMHO WWIII has begun and even us North-Americans will see it on our soil this time around. In other words, you will not have to enlist to see a little action. Makes me nautious. My thoughts and prayers to those in the ugly pit of it all. God forgive us all. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #4 January 28, 2003 Some excerpts from Colin Powell's speech at the World Economic Forum in Switzerland (courtesy of the Wall Street Journal, Jan. 27): "When we feel strongly about somthing, we will lead. We will act even if others are not prepared to join us." "Multilateralism cannot become an excuse for inaction." "We continue to reserve our sovereign right to take military action against Iraq alone or in a coalition of the willing." This is some of the strongest language since 9/11. This was a diplomatic "push-back" against the anit-Americanism that has been brewing for the past few weeks. The timing of this language, ahead of the State of the Union speech tonight by President Bush will comprise the final sharpening of the blade. The Bush administration is fully aware of the rift on this policy between the US and Europe. They knew even before decisions on the World Court and Kyoto Accord were made. I highly recommend the article if you can find a copy of yesterday's WSJ.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enrique 0 #5 January 28, 2003 I am just sad to know that the U.S. doesn't mind all the hatred. Yes, it is a powerful Country. Yes, they have proven it over and over and over again. Yes, it is obvious they need to pick a fight with some other Country.... anyone will do. And being so close to them really makes me scared. The Coronado fleet is only a few miles away, and so is the San Onofre nuclear plant........ It seems hard to believe that the U.S. is willing to drop nuclear bombs to stop Iraq from producing weapons of mass destruction. Wait a minute, then, what are nuclear bombs? Oh, yeah! They're weapons of mass destruction........ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerry81 10 #6 January 28, 2003 Quote IMHO WWIII has begun and even us North-Americans will see it on our soil this time around. Please excuse me if I say "Yeah, f$%#$ing right!" Using the biggest military force in the world to attack a far-away country can hardly count as a world war, even if it does cause some retaliatory terrorist attacks. IMO, the only way ww3 could start is if the rest of the world, namely Europe, Russia, China and some optional other countries at some point decided they are sick of United States' behaviour and formed an anti-USA alliance. And the chances for that happening are infinitesimally small, so please, if you do speak of a world war starting, try to explain why you feel it should be labeled as such. And on a closely related subject; exactly when is the State Of the Union address scheduled tonight? (time&timezone) It will be too late for tomorrows' papers to report it here, and I'm really interested in what GWB will say. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #7 January 28, 2003 There's a thread started about how the U.S. might use Nukes. Generally, it seems the source may be a little shady??? I don't think the U.S. will be using Nukes in Iraq. If they did, you'd better believe it to be their biggest mistake in history! That hatred of which you speak spans all over the globe for the U.S. and a large part of it resides in the Orient, where large Armies are amassed and they know all too well about the American use of Nuclear weapons. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #8 January 28, 2003 QuoteYes, it is obvious they need to pick a fight with some other Country.... Yeah, we're just a bunch of war mongers up here always ready to duke it out. James Baker didn't spend days trying to avert the Guld War. We were just looking for a fight when we intervened in the Balkans. Afghanistan was an appetizer. When France was getting ripped by terrorist bombings in the 70s, we tried the same model they did after the first WTC bombing: Nothing. Absolutely nothing. What happened? US Embassies in Africa getting leveled, killing hundreds in the 90s, squandered opportunities to get UBL from Sudan, Iraq paying families for their homicide bombing sons, and 9/11. Appeasement doesn't work. We've tried it many times ourselves and see the defects in action. How many more times do we need to try it for everyone to understand that? Should diplomacy be used? Absolutely, everytime with reasonable expectations and a desire to make it work. However, beating one's head against a wall does not cure the headache. Israel/PLO: Treaties abandoned. Somalia: in a perpetual sh*t-storm. DPRK: Self explanatory. Ivory Coast: We'll see. Iraq: How many more decades does one want to wait? Afghanistan: Nope Balkans: Nope Pre-WWII Germany: Nope Vietnam: Nope One plan that worked: Egypt and Israel. Saddat was assassinated for his trouble. Pick a conflict. I do not want us to go to war. Yet I feel that all other courses of action have failed.So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #9 January 28, 2003 Quote And on a closely related subject; exactly when is the State Of the Union address scheduled tonight? (time&timezone) It will be too late for tomorrows' papers to report it here, and I'm really interested in what GWB will say. 9:00 PM Eastern Standard Time (GMT -5 hours)So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #10 January 28, 2003 Quote Please excuse me if I say "Yeah, f$%#$ing right!"...IMO, the only way ww3 could start is if the rest of the world, namely Europe, Russia, China and some optional other countries at some point decided they are sick of United States' behaviour and formed an anti-USA alliance. Don't think that's possible? I most certainly do. The entire planet is waiting in suspense to hear what Bush is gonna say tonight. the entire planet knows he's gonna say: "let's kick some ass". The entire planet knows the reasons for this are shady at best. The entire planet has pleaded with the U.S. to slow down, take care of matters at hand and wait for UN resolution. The entire planet knows that Bush will not. And lastly, the entire planet has shady views of the U.S' moral stand in the first place. All I'm saying is that there is a possibility that others take the U.S. going to war as a reason/opportunity to attack the U.S. again. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enrique 0 #11 January 28, 2003 Israel/PLO: Treaties abandoned. Somalia: in a perpetual sh*t-storm. DPRK: Self explanatory. Ivory Coast: We'll see. Iraq: How many more decades does one want to wait? Afghanistan: Nope Balkans: Nope Pre-WWII Germany: Nope Vietnam: Nope *** I didn't mean to offend anyone. But the above is exactly my point.... none of those places are part of the U.S. ASMOF, they're in different continents. Coincidently, some of them have large oil fields. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #12 January 28, 2003 Quote And lastly, the entire planet has shady views of the U.S' moral stand in the first place. That is funny! Coming from the "pure as snow" northern neighbor...well, because there's snow up there . You wanna know the difference between the US and the rest of the world? The USA is more than a physical "thing" or plot of land. It's an attitude too. The attitude is strong to be sure, it is quick to act, and equally quick to accept accountability, and acknowledge its mistakes, and display its scandals to the world. What does the rest of the world do? Sit, point, and gawk at the crazy Americans. Please, keep doing that. We're not always right. But we're not always wrong either. Our failures have made our successes far more palatable to the world, the same world that just loves to sit and point, gawk and laugh, speak up in criticism and hush to silence rather than acknowledge progress and prosperity. If we do nothing, everyone bitches and moans. If we do something, everyone bitches and moans. Bring it on, we can take it, because we never stopped getting slapped in the face by a bunch of ankle biters. Criminy !!!!! So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
misskriss 0 #13 January 28, 2003 You are my hero... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
wmw999 2,121 #14 January 28, 2003 QuoteYou wanna know the difference between the US and the rest of the world? The USA is more than a physical "thing" or plot of land. It's an attitude too. Do you really think that people from other countries don't feel the same way about their countries??? QuoteIf we do nothing, everyone bitches and moans. If we do something, everyone bitches and moans Also true. There are arenas where nothing the US ever did would be right. And that doesn't mean we shouldn't take chances. But let's imagine you're a young canopy pilot who's doing really really well; immensely talented. So you rush out and decide you're the guy who's going to land that Cobalt 25 (or wingsuit). Everyone tells you you're an idiot. Chances are, they're right. Only we're not playing around with one person's health here. It's a damn country, and a damn world. Imagine you're that same canopy pilot, only your husband has died and you're the sole support for 6 children. It's not just you any more. And it's not just the US. Wendy W.There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jraf 0 #15 January 28, 2003 Honey, ain't no war commin' this way God bless your little heart, and I strongly suggest you pray to whoever is your maker of choice that it don't come, caue if WWIII should happen it is going to be the last war humanity gets to see. No more skydiving, noe more beer, no more boobies just a whole pile of ashes and you among it. That is if you don't get drafted first and don't die in a filthy muddy ditch in a far away place with rats eating your spilled guts. Ain't no calling Mama then, cause she will be soon to be dead. Think before you speak - it has a great future! There is nothing glorious of good about a war. Just tears, fear the smell of shit and blood. Torn of limbs, maimed friends and lot's of painful deaths. There are no heroes, just kids scared shitles doing stupid things to survive. If war happens it will affect YOU, so don't call for it unless you don't like your hands, legs, friends and neighbours.jraf Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui. Muff #3275 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zinger 0 #16 January 28, 2003 Quote Quote And lastly, the entire planet has shady views of the U.S' moral stand in the first place. That is funny! Coming from the "pure as snow" northern neighbor...well, because there's snow up there . You wanna know the difference between the US and the rest of the world? The USA is more than a physical "thing" or plot of land. It's an attitude too. The attitude is strong to be sure, it is quick to act, and equally quick to accept accountability, and acknowledge its mistakes, and display its scandals to the world. What does the rest of the world do? Sit, point, and gawk at the crazy Americans. Please, keep doing that. We're not always right. But we're not always wrong either. Our failures have made our successes far more palatable to the world, the same world that just loves to sit and point, gawk and laugh, speak up in criticism and hush to silence rather than acknowledge progress and prosperity. If we do nothing, everyone bitches and moans. If we do something, everyone bitches and moans. Bring it on, we can take it, because we never stopped getting slapped in the face by a bunch of ankle biters. Criminy !!!!! That was so well said it needed to be said again.. And we have a B.I.N.G.O ------Have a good one!-------- Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #17 January 28, 2003 Quote Quote And lastly, the entire planet has shady views of the U.S' moral stand in the first place. This quote remains true regardless of everything you've said below it. That's the problem which makes the hatred for your Country grow: You don't acknowledge that it exists and that it may exist for good reasons. Quote That is funny! Coming from the "pure as snow" northern neighbor...well, because there's snow up there . I'm not saying we're perfect but there is a difference. Every Canadian knows that when travelling abroad, you must wear a Canadian flag so that waiters don't mistake you for Americans and spit in your food. Quote You wanna know the difference between the US and the rest of the world? The USA is more than a physical "thing" or plot of land. It's an attitude too. You wanna know the difference between Canada and the rest of the world? Canada is more than a physical "object" or place. It's an attitude too. Quote it is quick to act, and equally quick to accept accountability, and acknowledge its mistakes, and display its scandals to the world. WHAT??? I think the speed at which your Country acts is countless times faster than the rate at which it displays its scandals to the world. Your scandals LEAK out to the rest of the world. Your government would keep them from YOU if they could. Quote We're not always right. But we're not always wrong either. However, the killing never stops Quote Our failures have made our successes far more palatable to the world Just like how if I punch you in the nose now, you will appreciate it more when I am civil to you tomorow. This is not the way to 'love thy neighboor' Quote the same world that just loves to sit and point, gawk and laugh, speak up in criticism and hush to silence rather than acknowledge progress and prosperity. Who's progress and prosperity? YOURS! Nobody CARES about your progress because you have "Progressed" more than, and at the cost of, everyone else already! Again, I don't know how you came up with your entire post as a result of the quote you pulled from mine. There is really no relevance between them. My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dave610 0 #18 January 28, 2003 QuoteHoney, ain't no war commin' this way Do you actually believe that? Do you think that we are going to just sit here perfectly safe because we are in the USA? If we start a war in the middle east, there will be more terrorist attacks in the USA than can be imagined, that this the only way they can contend with the USA. and that is "war comin' this way" QuoteThink before you speak - it has a great future! There is nothing glorious of good about a war. Just tears, fear the smell of shit and blood. Torn of limbs, maimed friends and lot's of painful deaths. There are no heroes, just kids scared shitles doing stupid things to survive. If war happens it will affect YOU, so don't call for it unless you don't like your hands, legs, friends and neighbours. I agree with everything your saying about what war really is. Maybe it was titled wrong. I think this thread was started by a person trying to say "war is likely, support the men and women who are being called to action and be PROUD TO BE AN AMERICAN" Pray, or whatever it is you choose to do, for a peacefull resolution to this. If this does turn into a war,and god I hope it doesn't, I believe it will be like no other we have seen in history. GOD BLESS OUR COUNTRY AND THE MEN AND WOMEN WHO PROTECT IT! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
arlo 0 #19 January 28, 2003 Quote And lastly, the entire planet has shady views of the U.S' moral stand in the first place. as a US citizen, I don't necessarily agree with everything our gov't does, but I surely will stand up to ANYONE that knocks our country as a whole...morals and all. I'm sorry that people can't get along in this world and blah blah blah, but i honestly could give a rat's ass how other countries view us. I've heard that people in other countries think George W is an idiot. Well guess what? So do alot of Americans! But we have an option. We can get the hell out. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but I DO take it personally when the USA (me being part of that) is slammed. My recommendation is that if people don't like what we do, then don't buy our products, don't visit our country, and leave it if you're here. I'm terribly sorry for this being harsh because I'm usually pretty neutral in these types of matters, but I am a citizen of this country and proud to be one. I believe in solidarity and i am deeply proud of the men and women that protect our freedoms. blues and hopes of peace, arlo Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Enrique 0 #20 January 28, 2003 My recommendation is that if you don't like what we do, don't buy our products, don't visit our country, and leave it if you're here.*** I agree with you. But isn't the U.S. pretty much involved (i.e., trying to control) most of the world, anyways? Peace out! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #21 January 28, 2003 I'm not suprised that of the two direct replies my post got, the same quote was addressed. I'm not knocking the US! But you - being a citizen - cannot deny the quote you pulled from my post. You get all excited and out of whack because of it? It is a simple FACT that generally, the world looks down at your country's moral adgenda in this and many other matters. It's true that if an American Citizen "has something to say", that they can "get the hell out" but what does the rest of the world do? My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #22 January 28, 2003 Arlo, I'm not picking an argument with you but how can you follow: Quote but i honestly could give a rat's ass how other countries view us. With: Quote I DO take it personally when the USA (me being part of that) is slammed. Don't you see that's kinda my point? 'As a whole' (if that's what you want to say) your Country doesn't CARE that countless people are angry with it. Edited to say: On a lighter note, I just made 'Addict' My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #23 January 28, 2003 > IMO, the only way ww3 could start is if the rest of the world, namely > Europe, Russia, China and some optional other countries at some > point decided they are sick of United States' behaviour and formed > an anti-USA alliance. And the chances for that happening are > infinitesimally small, That's been said many times before. It was said after the Great War, which is what world war I was called before world war II. The papers were full of how we will never again have a global war. Who would start it? Crippled Germany? The Russian monarchy? Our ally China? The French battlefield? There was no way anyone was strong enough to stand up to the allies. It took only 30 some odd years before World War II began. We resisted being drawn into it at least partly because we believed in all the talk, that there would never be another world war. So "Yeah, f***ing right" you say? I think the people of 1935 would say the same thing about a Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, and I know the people of 2000 would say the same about an attack by terrorists that would destroy the WTC and part of the Pentagon. How about a China-Korean-Arab alliance? We've branded them all terrorists or communists, and they have a lot to gain by allying (if they can deal with their own squabbles of course.) Combined, they could pose the same threat that the USSR did - greater, if we continue to depend on them for fuel. We've managed to piss most of them off with our empire building, and eventually they will decide that the threat from the expanding US empire is greater than their differences - unless, of course, we start behaving like a citizen of the world instead of its judge, jury and executioner. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #24 January 28, 2003 > Bring it on, we can take it, because we never stopped getting > slapped in the face by a bunch of ankle biters. Criminy !!!!! Some day, one of those ankle biters may just blow our head off. We're not the only nuclear power in the world any more, and someday we better start treating our neighbors like neighbors and not a "bunch of lousy ankle biters." I know, we can beat them in a war, but if we lose, say, 20 of our biggest cities, did we 'win?' Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
goose491 0 #25 January 28, 2003 Well put Bill, this is indeed the Alliance I am most concerned with. If Korea wasn't such a risk, the U.S. would roll right over them... and they know it. China? They hate us to hell and if the U.S. ever went with the notion of using Nukes, the people of China would absolutely EXPLODE with anger. Anyone here ever play Risk? There comes a time where you all have to work to gether and take out the big guy, otherwise, you're going down right? I'm moving to Australlia! It always seems to be a tough continent to get hold of My Karma ran over my Dogma!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
