Skyrad 0 #151 February 11, 2003 Hi Michelle, Responding to 'Something is indeed going on, and I don't understand what. And I do hear a lot of anti-americanism (not just CNN, etc. but in sites that I go to and read on originating outside the US), but I am really unclear as to why, exactly, this feeling is so pervasive.' I honestly think one reason is that because Americans hardly travel they often see the US as the world (World series Baseball for example) alot of people I belive see that as arrogance. (Not having a dig here just saying it as I see it). I think that this insularity fosters a sense of paranoia based in ignorance of others which is at the moment being reinforced by your government for their own aims. On an international level America is seen as supporting and upholding terror regimes such as the Israeli Government (genocide of Palastinians) and sucking upto the Saudi royals who are not much better than Sadam. The whole system of corporate greed that runs American politics is often confused (by a world that has little day to day contact with American's) for American culture and values. Americas self centeredness when it comes to consumerism and the destruction of the enviroment also contribute. The fact that america won't sign upto the convention on child rights and along with China stil holds minors on death row. I used to think I didn't like Americans, then I went there and found some fantastic people (they were on holiday as well ) But really, I think one reason is that people don't often get to meet real americans because the majority of Americans stay at home. most of those who do travel are in the millitary and live on bases which may as well be America. My question to you is 'Why don't Americans travel?' That often used excuse that 'we have everything here in the US' doesn't wash. Look at Australia, they have a whole continent to themselves and are on the other side of the world yet they travel more than any other nationals and I'm sure that they're richer culturaly for it. So 'Why don't Americans travel?' When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyhi 24 #152 February 11, 2003 Quote Yes, America Has given Europe so much... Starbucks, McDonalds, Jimmy Osmond, Michael Jackson, Liberace, Jerry Springer... The list just seems to go on and on... Jumped from page 1 to page 6 (ADD), so I don't really know if anyone has mentioned Jerry Lewis, yet. After all, Europeans, and specifically the French, were the first to use the words "Jerry Lewis" and "genius" in the same sentence. BTW, I fully intend to steal the "Mousewitz" and "Duckau" comments. That's funny.Shit happens. And it usually happens because of physics. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #153 February 11, 2003 Dear Mike, Those that have had U.S. Aid after War (even ones they have started the Wars). Have always hated the U.S. This is always been since I can remember. I'm Scot/Can. & lived in UP-State N.Y. mostly. Having had a father in Anti-terroism, InterPOl & My Step-Mom in France,also a Counter-Terr. agent now. I have found that the general "blame the U.S. for everything" attitude I found everywhere(Alot in Can.& France) is the same deal as a 15year old saying I hate my parents. I feel the U.S. should withdraw troops for around the World and full out foreign trade boycotts imposed. When eating sand and no cash flow hits, they will be so greatful: The Americans have left them alone(Scotland shall never be combined w/England, as the Lion Rampant goes forth!) -Grant (of Strathspey) _______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeemax 0 #154 February 11, 2003 Scotts of the world unite..! rahhh..!!!Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bobsled92 0 #155 February 11, 2003 Quote Scotts of the world unite..! rahhh..!!! Yep, I grew up in a town in the Mountains of N.Y. (Below Canada by a few mintues). We had 200 Mass bands each year. I did Highland Games Comp and have the Lion Rampant Flag as big as my hand across my right upper arm. (my job is here but, we're visiting Scot this June)They'll like me there right? (I'll speak of beer but, no talk of football or politics) -Grant_______________________________ If I could be a Super Hero, I chose to be: "GRANT-A-CLAUS". and work 365 days a Year. http://www.hangout.no/speednews/ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #156 February 11, 2003 Quote So 'Why don't Americans travel?' Quite honestly....Our food is better, our women are hotter, our country is prettier and let's face it...we have the best damn country on the face of the Earth! I am totally kidding. Seriously, who says Americans don't travel? I don't know if I know anyone who doesn't travel. Those that don't travel overseas may not do so for reasons of finance or the fact that there is so much to see right here. The United States is a large country with various cultures and climates. I honestly don't think it has to do with a thinking that we are the center of the world. Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Zeemax 0 #157 February 11, 2003 Quote Quote Scotts of the world unite..! rahhh..!!! Yep, I grew up in a town in the Mountains of N.Y. (Below Canada by a few mintues). We had 200 Mass bands each year. I did Highland Games Comp and have the Lion Rampant Flag as big as my hand across my right upper arm. (my job is here but, we're visiting Scot this June)They'll like me there right? (I'll speak of beer but, no talk of football or politics) -Grant Aye, i ken wha yeer sayin' beer is a braw langauge..Phoenix Fly - High performance wingsuits for skydiving and BASE Performance Designs - Simply brilliant canopies Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
miked10270 0 #158 February 11, 2003 QuoteJumped from page 1 to page 6 (ADD), so I don't really know if anyone has mentioned Jerry Lewis, yet. After all, Europeans, and specifically the French, were the first to use the words "Jerry Lewis" and "genius" in the same sentence. Err yes... Althrough I believe the actual quotation was: "Le Français qui tire Jerry Lewis avant qu'il puisse chanter sera grêlé comme génie musical." with which I can sympathise...[;P] Mike Taking the piss out of the FrenchAmericans since before it was fashionable. Prenait la pisse hors du FrançaisCanadiens méridionaux puisqu'avant lui à la mode. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,398 #159 February 11, 2003 >If you are not giving more than you are taking, or at least equal give > and take, then you are hurting society as a whole....thats more > clearly what I mean. That I would agree with. There's always give and take, and if you can break even you're doing ok, I think. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,398 #160 February 11, 2003 >Then there's still that ever present pesky little detail about what > happened to all that VX nerve gas, Anthrax and missiles. Agreed; Michele's comment was more along the lines of "he seems like he's connected to Al Quaeda, and since that's not impossible it's probably true." We still have to get a reasonably accurate account of his WMD's. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skyrad 0 #161 February 11, 2003 Did you know that only 4% of Americans hold a passport? 'Those that don't travel overseas may not do so for reasons of finance or the fact that there is so much to see right here. The United States is a large country with various cultures and climates. ' Isn't that exactly the same for Australians? They've got an entire continent! They also have rain forests, deserts, mountains, Snow for skiing, beautiful beachs. It also costs them almost twice as much to come to Europe than it does for Americans, yet the place is full of them.When an author is too meticulous about his style, you may presume that his mind is frivolous and his content flimsy. Lucius Annaeus Seneca Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ladyskydiver 0 #162 February 11, 2003 Quote My question to you is 'Why don't Americans travel?' My reasons for not traveling (yet) outside of the US are: 1. Don't have the money. But I've got my passport. 2. Single woman - if I go out of the country by myself to explore the world (and there are quite a few places on my list of "Must See Before I Die"), would I be safe since I'm an American? If I had all the money that I needed to explore the various countries I want to see and knew I'd be safe, I'd be overseas in a heartbeat. There are many interesting cultures, places, and people to meet.Life is short! Break the rules! Forgive quickly! Kiss slowly! Love truly, Laugh uncontrollably. And never regret anything that made you smile. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gravitymaster 0 #163 February 11, 2003 Quote>Then there's still that ever present pesky little detail about what > happened to all that VX nerve gas, Anthrax and missiles. Agreed; Michele's comment was more along the lines of "he seems like he's connected to Al Quaeda, and since that's not impossible it's probably true." We still have to get a reasonably accurate account of his WMD's. *There is also the very real possibility that disclosure of what happened to it may bring the fury of the entire world down on him. Why is Saddam willing to risk his own life and his rule over Iraq because of this non-disclosure? The simple solution, if he has nothing to hide, would be to come clean on what he did with it. This would end all this conflict. Why is that so difficult for him to do? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kiltboy 0 #164 February 11, 2003 Procrastination strikes again. Hi Michelle, I think France has been doing thing it shouldn't be doing. Breaching trade embargoes etc. one thing I heard (can't remember where) is that the US will go in when the last French memo gets destroyed. Germany I think is different from what you say. German forces were only recently allowed outside German borders and there is a lot of guilt about what happened in WW2 that could account for the lack of interest in a war. The assault on Iraq that is being considered is not in response to an act of aggression, such as the invasion of Kuwait, which would make the decision easier. As for Turkey, NATO did offer to invoke the same clause when the US was attacked on 9/11 so I'm not sure what Frnce and Germany are up to. The UN has been embarrassed frequently lately such as Bosnia (safe havens? stealing equipment from UN troops) and Iraq so I get the feeling that it does run the risk of becoming a non-entity. Taking down Iraq is a major undertaking and the problem here is that the country they can turn to capable of doing the job is the very country that is pushing to do it. Is the UN going to change forever after in that you can invade a country and change it's government? I think the UN believes war can always be avoided and they're now having to face up to the fact that that isn't always the case. The AQ/terrorism conection to Iraq is certainly plausible (my enemies enemy is my friend) but I've not seen that much of it in the press. I would have thought that if they'd found evidence in a cave in Afghanistan pointing that way they would have produced it. It could be that the US administration strongly suspects it but has a stronger case for the WMD and so is going down that line. However I would have thought that after Afghanistan Iraq would have cleaned house so as not to attract attention. How difficult would it be to bomb the crap out of somewhere in Iraq where there was an AQ training camp? A couple of cruise missiles? I know Isreal produced paperwork linking Arafat to funding terrorism. All I'd need for the AQ link to Iraq is a training camp or former Taliban saying he was trained there. The main problem that I have with Dubya and the other guys pushing for war is that they've seen the smart weapons and think this will be a push over. I don't think that's going to happen and I think you're looking at street fighting which will take away a lot of the technological edge the US/UK have. Iraq isn't Somalia but years of sanctions may mean that the Iraqi population does not look to the US/UK as the liberators they were in Afghanistan and subsequently they may put up a fight. I hope I'm wrong and Saddam gives it up. As for my thought's on Bush's reputation maybe that's wrong. I do believe that he feels an enormous amount of responsibility for what happened on 9/11 as he was President. I'm not saying he was responsible but that as President he feels he was. As such he's now doing what he can to ensure it never happens again. The downside to that is that will require a monumental shift in the US attitude to the Middle East and a serious long term (talking generations) commitment to be carried on by subsequent administrations. Bombing the crap out of people and alienating generations to come won't help. I hope he has a very, very good plan for quickly returning Iraq to being an independant sovereign state that will be recognised by the UN. Immediately after Iraq throws in the towel. Doing so would go a long way towards the future safety of the US. Having the troops hang around could be portrayed as an occupying force exploiting the country which would be an excellent recruiting tool for future extremists. David Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #165 February 11, 2003 QuoteDid you know that only 4% of Americans hold a passport? Really? I have to honestly plead ignorance on this statistic. Now we should ask the question, Why do Australians travel? Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,398 #166 February 11, 2003 >Single woman - . . . would I be safe since I'm an American? For the most part, yes. A former girlfriend of mine has traveled through Pakistan, India, Nepal, China - at one point Bin Laden had put a $10,000 bounty on the head of any american. She was OK, despite her sticking out like a sore thumb on occasion. She wore a shalwar kameez while she was there (pakistani version of the burqua) mainly out of respect for their culture and had no problems. I've found that if you avoid large cities people are pretty nice no matter where you go. The people in small towns in France are really nice, even to an american who can barely speak french. When Heidi and I traveled through Europe, the only places we had any problems communicating were Heidelburg and Brussels. The rest of the time we avoided big cities and had no problems in Belgium, France, Luxembourg, Germany, or the Netherlands. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,398 #167 February 11, 2003 >There is also the very real possibility that disclosure of what >happened to it may bring the fury of the entire world down on him. You answered your own question, I think. If, at this point, he said "Oh yeah, I have two hundred rockets loaded with VX ready to fire at Israel" think the fury of the whole world might be even _more_ likely to come crashing down on his head? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JJohnson 0 #168 February 11, 2003 You friggin Euro-trash are very bit as screwed up as us trailer trash. What's worse, us making Jerry Springer and exporting it to you or you watching it?In fact that is why most U.S trailer trash don't travel over by you, cause we get tired of watching old Springer reruns. That and Mad Cow disease??? How fucked up do you have to be to make a cow angry??? On the serious side I have traveled a great deal in my 39 years on Earth. I am quite grateful to have seen the things I have. I am a chronic people watcher and have obcerved my fellow man from ghettos in the Phillipines, where people live is shacks right out of Gilligans Island, to Europeans slamming MacDonalds down their throats..... It has all brought me to the conclusion that as human beings we are pretty much all the same. We are fairly intelligent, know right from wrong and don't really want to hurt anyone else. But when gathered in groups we get stupid. So as more people get into politics and stuff, the more stupid their rationale becomes. If you do not belive my opinion, go out to a large international airport or shopping center. The more people, the bigger the vacant looks on their faces, the more they walk around like sheep. The human race is better off when only gathered to party....when stupidity is the purpose. God created us as flawed creatures and we have been abusing those flaws since day one. Just my inane ramblings for the day. Peace. JJ "Call me Darth Balls" Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 4 #169 February 11, 2003 Mike, You and I had a conversation before around the Nascar thread. I listened to you and I gave you the benefit of the doubt. By giving me another load of the same stuff in this thread you're simply abusing my trust. I've banned your username.Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ifrinn 0 #170 February 11, 2003 The thing is, we think that the US sometimes first should look at themselves and then try to teach other countries how they have to be!! A point I understand but don't really get is why is the US so concerned about the things going on on the other side of the world? Don't understand me wrong please, it's only a question! Turkey ... well I thing to understand that, you should know a bit about the history ... and especially the numbers of turkish people. We do have problem with them .. you can compare it in a way with the problems the US is having with Mexicans. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #171 February 11, 2003 Quote It has all brought me to the conclusion that as human beings we are pretty much all the same. We are fairly intelligent, know right from wrong and don't really want to hurt anyone else. But when gathered in groups we get stupid. So as more people get into politics and stuff, the more stupid their rationale becomes. If you do not belive my opinion, go out to a large international airport or shopping center. The more people, the bigger the vacant looks on their faces, the more they walk around like sheep. The human race is better off when only gathered to party....when stupidity is the purpose. God created us as flawed creatures and we have been abusing those flaws since day one. Holy shit, that is so funny.I think you are on to something. Think about it, the foreigners first enter our country through our airports (everyone looks dumb in airports), then perhaps they take public transportation to their hotel (everyone looks dumb that takes public transportation), then they check into our hotels (which we all know that American Hotels do not offer the hospitality that European Hotels do). If they are going to stay awhile they may have to visit our INS offices (no explanation necessary) to extend their visas. And lastly, if they wish to get an American driver's license, they have to visit our RMV's (as Jerry Seinfeld calls them...leper colonies). It makes you wonder if we are putting our best foot forward.Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Muenkel 0 #172 February 11, 2003 QuoteI've banned your username. For those who don't know, that is the infamous "Hot Fork". Chris _________________________________________ Chris Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rhino 0 #173 February 11, 2003 I warned him.. Darnit.. That fork stings.. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymama 35 #174 February 11, 2003 Quote I warned him.. Darnit.. That fork stings.. Sigh....kids these days, they just won't listen! She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man, because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Gawain 0 #175 February 11, 2003 Quote Quote I've banned your username. For those who don't know, that is the infamous "Hot Fork". See, I didn't know and suspected it was something more than the "padlock".Now if that happened to me, or anyone, does that also prevent "Gawain2" from coming into the fray? Or is there a permanent list? So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright 'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life Make light! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
