airtwardo 6 #26 June 25, 2011 Quote Ahhh yes, thanks for the input, Jim. I can see that even in your scenario, the RSL would be relatively free (after it pulled clear of the ripcord and broken closing loop) but it's still worth considering. ~That's what I was looking at, I'm not sure it would 'every time' considering the angle and the remnant of the loop maybe pinning it to the grommet...then again, I tend to over think some of this stuff. I figure if I ever end up with 2 out, it will probably be a low pull followed by an AAD fire, similar situation. ~If I end up with a two out because of a low pull & AAD fire, I got more problems than that...I got somebody else's RIG on! Remember when all these piggy back rigs with 3 rings and hand deploys were all new, and we had to figure a lot of this $hit out? ~Damn hippies and them new fangled 'handy-ploys'... ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meresa 0 #27 January 31, 2015 As much as I love my Racer (my second one), I will not use a double-sided RSL under any circumstances. I have two reasons for my choice. One: In the event of a clean total, my plan would be to just pull the reserve. However, depending on what is behind me I may end up pulling the cutaway handle along with the reserve as a precaution (and many people do). If the main deploys late after the cutaway handle has been pulled and reserve is out, then the RSL is around the front of the reserve risers and the canopy is inflating behind them. In that scenario, the main canopy has now become a death noose that can choke off the reserve. One which may or may not come off with sufficient altitude for the reserve to re-inflate. Two: the original intent of the double sided RSL was to prevent activating the reserve in the event of one riser failing to release. First off, that scenario is exceedingly rare in a properly maintained rig. Second, I am not convinced that a double-sided RSL would prevent activation of the reserve in that scenario, anyway. Here's why: If one riser were to release and one remain attached, then the drag of the main would likely pull the released riser as far behind the rig as possible. It would only be stopped when the RSL was pulled tight between the two riser connections. At that point, the RSL would be completely clear of the reserve container, and will have activated the reserve, regardless of which riser failed to release. At least with a single-sided RSL you only get a premature reserve activation if the riser opposite the RSL fails to release. So with a double-sided RSL, you effectively double the chances of a main/reserve entanglement that way. I know there are many arguments pro and con on this, but this is my personal choice. I would rather rely on myself (backed up by my CYPRES) to make a timely reserve pull after a cutaway, than to use something that could potentially get me into a whole lot more trouble. Now, if there are any alternative RSL arrangements available for the Racer (i.e single-sided, skyhook etc.) I am open to suggestions. But a double-sided RSL is off, and staying off, of any rig that I jump. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
megamalfunction 1 #28 January 31, 2015 My buddy had a two out jumping a round reserve and a square main on jump number 8. I wonder if he remembered to disconnect his RSL prior to chopping? I know I wouldn't! P.S. That was a rhetorical question. I know he didn't disconnect the RSL. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #29 January 31, 2015 Some people attach both sides of a RACER RSL to one main riser. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
gunsmokex 1 #30 January 31, 2015 I'm just curious if all Racer are like this or if its only certain years. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meresa 0 #31 February 1, 2015 riggerrobSome people attach both sides of a RACER RSL to one main riser. I've thought of doing that. But then you have to be sure to disconnect both ends. It's not likely to pull the reserve with only one end attached, but it's a non zero probability... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aarco 0 #32 February 1, 2015 I think he's trying to say, if a function and format work, why bother with the risk,, or why is that gear involved with that risk, if we knew we were jumping out of a plane in the first place,, day and age type thing, , see the sun in the sky before you raise your head out of the dirt... Having something never beats doing (>|<) Iam building things - Iam working on my mind- I am going to change this world - its what I came here 4- - - Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Meresa 0 #33 February 1, 2015 chuckakersQuoteAnd on a Racer, the RSL could strangle and deflate the reserve as the main departs. That resulted in a fatality a while back if memory serves. Your memory does serve you correctly. It was a long-time Racer owner who bought one with an RSL for the first time when they became popular. He didn't bother reading the manual which clearly warned that the double-sided RSL MUST be disconnected on at least one side before chopping a main during a 2-out situation. His ended up with 2 out and cutaway the main while both sides were attached to the risers. The main slid straight up the reserve lines, choking it and causing it to collapse. This is precisely why I will NOT under any circumstances use the double sided RSL. My main concern is in the event of a total. In that scenario the reserve is deployed inside of a closed loop made by the main canopy, lines and the RSL. If the main comes out after the reserve opens (happened to me once) and the cutaway handle has been pulled (many people do so in response to a total as a matter of course), then the main canopy has effectively become a deadly noose. If I have a total, I don't want to spend seconds agonizing over whether or not to pull the cutaway handle. I currently own a racer (my second one) and I am happy with every other aspect of the rig, but the RSL. I spent many sleepless hours over the RSL before I jumped it, and in the end I had to just take it off for my own piece of mind. If there are any other alternate RSL arrangements for the racer that don't involve a cross connect I would love to hear them, because I would really like to have an RSL on my rig. A cross connector on the main risers is unsafe at any speed if you ask me. There is a reason why they went away once the reserve moved from the front to the back. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jumpsalot-2 2 #34 February 2, 2015 Would you consider changing container types for your peace of mind ? I only have 2 cut-aways. I was fast to the reserve handle on both, but the RSL beat me both times. I'm glad the RSL was there.Life is short ... jump often. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mentosfresh 0 #35 February 2, 2015 Last week, a jumper had a double malfunction on his Racer with the double RSL. The main choked off the reserve and he spiralled into the ground. By some miracle, he walked away from the incident. The video footage is insane. This has definitely convinced me to never jump a double RSL. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #36 February 3, 2015 I know Jumpshack offers a single sided RSL as an option, but I completely do not understand why they still sand by the double sided design and still offer it....Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
377 20 #37 February 3, 2015 jumpsalot-2Would you consider changing container types for your peace of mind ? I only have 2 cut-aways. I was fast to the reserve handle on both, but the RSL beat me both times. I'm glad the RSL was there. I also have had 2 cutaways, once in the early 70s on surplus rounds with no RSL and once at WFFC on modern squares with an RSL. The RSL beat me handily and I tried to pull fast. I had plenty of altitude on that 2nd cutaway but... if I was running out of altitude the RSL could have made the difference between "splat" and "whew". Great invention, thanks to Perry Stevens and other gear pioneers. 3772018 marks half a century as a skydiver. Trained by the late Perry Stevens D-51 in 1968. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
chuckakers 370 #38 February 3, 2015 RemsterI know Jumpshack offers a single sided RSL as an option, but I completely do not understand why they still sand by the double sided design and still offer it.... John Sherman posts on here. I'm sure he would explain.Chuck Akers D-10855 Houston, TX Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #39 February 3, 2015 chuckakers***I know Jumpshack offers a single sided RSL as an option, but I completely do not understand why they still sand by the double sided design and still offer it.... John Sherman posts on here. I'm sure he would explain. I've read his explanation (he posted it somewhere in the forum not that long ago). I still don't get it.Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #40 February 4, 2015 How about 2 separate RSLs, one from each riser, but not making a contiguous loop? Would that satisfy John Sherman's requirements AND enable the main to be cutaway without choking off the reserve? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #41 February 4, 2015 yeah. Lets make things even more complex... Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #42 February 4, 2015 Remster yeah. Lets make things even more complex... Nope, think about it. It's the same setup, but with the connection in the middle "cut". No more problem of choking off the reserve, right? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jerolim 7 #43 February 4, 2015 That was already invented by Parachute de France. They had 2 pins from RSL lanyard, and reserve closing loop was 2 loops. Reserve ripcord ends in loop and pulls both RSL pins. http://avstop.com/ac/prh/images/fig2-49.jpg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,381 #44 February 4, 2015 >Lets make things even more complex... Tongue Well, that would be less complex than the Skyhook. Two reserve pins, one RSL per pin, tack the continuous loop in the center. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnMitchell 14 #45 February 4, 2015 billvon>Lets make things even more complex... Tongue I concur with you. I'm quite happy with my single RSL. But if you want a double, why not get rid of the biggest danger? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 24 #46 February 4, 2015 billvon >Lets make things even more complex... Tongue Well, that would be less complex than the Skyhook. Two reserve pins, one RSL per pin, tack the continuous loop in the center. You're not helping me change my opinion of the skyhook, Bill... Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deimian 43 #47 February 5, 2015 jerolimThat was already invented by Parachute de France. They had 2 pins from RSL lanyard, and reserve closing loop was 2 loops. Reserve ripcord ends in loop and pulls both RSL pins. http://avstop.com/ac/prh/images/fig2-49.jpg Looks to me like one pin coming out can easily dislodge the other one if just one riser gets released. Anyone more experienced want to comment? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Deyan 31 #48 February 5, 2015 Quote Looks to me like one pin coming out can easily dislodge the other one if just one riser gets released. Anyone more experienced want to comment? For about 50 test I've done, I couldn't open the rig by pulling only one lanyard. Don't worry, it works "My belief is that once the doctor whacks you on the butt, all guarantees are off" Jerry Baumchen Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
