GroundResonance 0 #1 August 8, 2012 I emailed the factory but they've been slow to respond. I have a vector II size "4 1/2" container. I bought it with a Falcon 215 with dacron lines. My rigger has repeatedly reminded me that the 215 "barely fits." I'm looking to downsize to a Sabre 190 (yes i'm broke), but looking at the pack volume charts from the vector owners manual, and the chart from paragear i've come up with the following numbers: suggested container volume: 450-550 Vector Manual: Falcon 215: 480 Sabre 190: 415 Paragear: Falcon 215: 465 Sabre 190: 500 I understand that are various factors associated with the tests that produced these resulting "pack volumes," but I hope you can understand my confusion regarding the large variation in results for the sabre, as well as the low falcon numbers corresponding to a tight fit in a container that should take 70+ more sq/in. All I really want to know is will my container hold a Sabre 190? If the falcon 215 is tight but close-able, then my guess would be yes? Also, can any canopy attach to any risers? or does it have to be "compatible?" I would go see my rigger to figure this out, but I live 2.5 hours from the DZ and want to get a deal done for the canopy. I hope I've provided enough information, thanks in advance Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Mr_Polite 0 #2 August 8, 2012 Yes that canopy will attach to whatever risers you have. You should buy new soft links (or hard) since you're going to have to attach the canopy anyway. It's a cheap investment to proper gear care. As far as will it be a perfect fit. The best way is to pack it in your gear and find out. You can look at specs all day long but you really won't know till you try. Does anyone at your dz have a sabre 190 you pack in your container? Also there is nothing wrong with a sabre! Yes people will bitch and moan about the smacker openings but if you pack it right, maybe get the modified slider it will treat you well. Once open they are a great canopy to start with. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GroundResonance 0 #3 August 8, 2012 Canopy is out of state, I don't know anyone with one and I'm a 4-8 jumps a month kind of guy.. trying to make a rational decision based on... semi-science? I figure if the 190 packs smaller it will definitely fit the container, but I also understand that manufacturers measure their square footage differently. Thanks for the riser info Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #4 August 8, 2012 And Jumpshack has more numbers to confuse the situation: (value 1 = "our numbers", value 2 = "PIA") FALCON 215 520 564 SABRE 190 -- 509 SABRE 190 W/MICRO LINE 416 -- I'm no expert on these things, but I wouldn't be surprised if the Sabre packs up at least as large as the Falcon. One may squeeze out most of the air to get a book value for volume, but that'll be different than trying to do a regular pack job where a Z-P canopy is going to puff up a lot more than a possibly baffed out old F-111 canopy. Do YOU feel the Falcon barely fits? I have a spare rig that's a Vector II V4 size, for a 390-490 main, smaller than your V4.5. Mine fits a dacron Maverick (200) just fine when it comes to packing -- although the loop is fairly long, thus bulging the lower flap out more, which probably makes the bridle protection a little worse than it would normally be, not freefly friendly in either case. The Maverick is quoted as 468 to 500 in volume. So it isn't an issue of packing, rather whether the rig stays safe for the intended purpose. Have a look at how it is on your rig now. Taking a larger canopy might not be as much of an issue, if one say had a bridle cover flap added. Still, I wonder about the puffiness of a Sabre 190. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
GroundResonance 0 #5 August 8, 2012 I did have bridle protection added, and it works well even with the 215. The Falcon is rather "old" at 800 jumps and pushes air out.....Effortlessly? Regardless, as a mechanic, I am the type of person who is fairly meticulous with tasks like packing, and if it takes longer to flatten that wont be a problem. The Sabre I'm looking at is spectra lined though, and should pack a little smaller? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skybytch 259 #6 August 8, 2012 It should fit fine. Spectra lines take up less room than Dacron. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
councilman24 36 #7 August 8, 2012 One set of volumes all done by ONE person with one set of equipment are available here. http://www.pia.com/piapubs/TSDocuments/TS-104CanopyVolume.pdf Note the sizes for Saber's with spectra versus dacron and the two sizes shown for Falcon 215's. Your so close to the limit that any individual canopy may be too big, or at least as big as your Falcon. Canopy volumes can vary by 10% between individual example of a particular model. My guess would be that the Sabre would fit as well as your Falcon, maybe better. But if you have a SMALL Falcon and get a LARGE Sabre it may not fit. YMMVBTW I think the Vector manual Sabre size is a typo. I'm old for my age. Terry Urban D-8631 FAA DPRE Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
