Bad exit, big FAIL for AFF3

[nerd137 0]

Okay, I read just about every post here regarding other people's "difficulties" passing their AFF levels, so I no longer feel annoyed with myself for having to repeat level 2 and now level 3. But I'd still like feedback on my specific experience.

Out of my 4 AFF jumps so far, my exits have been fine. Maybe a little dearched at first, but that's all. I failed level 2 due to bad leg control, repeated it yesterday and got a solid PASS. I felt so good I decided to do AFF3 right away. I don't know why, but apparantly I went into a fetal postion upon exit. Next thing I know, I'm on my back like a upturned turtle, arms and legs all over the place, as I see the plane above and one instructer waaaaaay above me. I wasn't panicked, but was very close until I realized one instructer was still holding on. I started to arch at this point to flip over, which I finally did, but my instructor later said it was mostly her forcing me to flip. About that time (at about 9k ft) instructor #2 caught up, grabbed on to me, and we finished the dive. After a few hand signs, apparantly my body position was quite good. At about 6,000 ft, when I locked on, I realized I forgot to do my p/p's. (For a brief second I considered quickly doing them. Haha.) By 5,500 ft I said "fuck it," waved off and pulled even though it was 500 ft early. Needless to say, I was still a little zonked from the exit. My landing went fine.

My first instinct was to get up there and go again immediately. My instructors were willing, but they were also busy with other students scheduled before me. After sitting around for like 2 hours, thinking about what happend, I managed to scare myself beyond the point where I thought I had a chance of doing well on a jump. (Besides, I was really coming down hard from that adrenaline rush and felt very sleepy.) I went home deciding to come back the next day to rejump. I slept like 12 hours, but woke up at least 5 times from bad dream about that exit. Today I woke up nearly ready to ask for a refund on my pre-paid A license jumps. I have since calmed down, but still don't feel up for jumping yet. (NOTE: If the DZ was closer, I probably would have forced myself.) I'm gonna go again Saturday...by then I should have relaxed quite a bit.

My questions are this:

(1) Am I wierd for wanting to wait a few days before trying again?

(2) For you AFF instructors out there, is an exit like mine where a student flips on their back something you'd qualify as especially dangerous? Or is this not uncommon? My instructors seemed super calm about it, but I'm kinda curious if I scared the shit out of them or not. (And, duh, I don't wanna ask them!)

Thanx!

[jbrasher 0]

Ask them.
They've either heard it before or will someday.
Communication is a good thing.

I've had people blow the exit and then settle down and do a super fine jump from there.

I'd much rather have you blow the exit and recover then go unstable at pull.

You know what you need to do (you've done it well already) you just want to work on consistency.

How many minutes of freefall do you have so far: under 4 minutes?
Did you learn to drive a car in 4 minutes? Think about how good you've done with the limited amount a time in the air that you've had. Put it in perspective; you'll be fine, do as your instructors and taught you.

Red, White and Blue Skies,

John T. Brasher D-5166

[firstime 0]

***How many minutes of freefall do you have so far: under 4 minutes?
Did you learn to drive a car in 4 minutes?


LMAO, but a very good statement It makes most of us newbie's say "mmm" ya gotta point!!

[Brian425 0]

Nerd,
Talk with your instructors. Bad exits are very common for students. My exits SUCKEd until about jump 8 or 10. Then they were just inconsistent until about jump 15. The key for me to passing was that I could ALWAYS get stable quickly. This is new and puts a lot of stress on us.

Talk to your instructors about you concerns. That is why you have them. Also just MY OPINION, don't force youself to jump. Deal with your concerns and be prepared to jump. This way you learn something.

You can do it. Be prepared, be safe and HAVE FUN!

B

The only time you should look down on someone is when you are offering them your hand.

[skyhighkiy 0]

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don't force youself to jump.

I agree and disagree with that statement. don't force yourself if you're paralyzed with fear and all, but if it's really something you want to do, get up and make yourself do it. YOur instructors won't let you progress if you don't have the ability to do so. If they pass you, you should be good to go. I have some friends that had to make themselves do the next jump and are glad they did.


Nerd,
It sounds like you are doing DAMN well at your progression, great job
mistakes, nervousness, inability to do certain things, these are all part of the learning process; present through your entire skydiving career, difference is that right now you have two instructors by your side

what you're experiencing is normal and even the best guys have been there at one point or another. Keep up the good work and stay hungry for the skies

BE THE BUDDHA!

[robertmicp 0]

You said instructor #2 caught up to you and grab on, that must have been one hell of an exit to shake your instructor. I know all of my 2 instructor AFFs jumps with some messed up flipping exits they stuck right with me.

BTW, most of my exits up to 10 really sucked, but, I was able to get stable within 5 sec each time. As my instructor said, stable exits are prefered, but getting stable fast is far better then a good exit. Dont worry, stable exits will come with more jumps.

my .02

"Also I heard the voice of the Lord saying who shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, here am I, send me."

[Lostinspace 0]

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You said instructor #2 caught up to you and grab on, that must have been one hell of an exit to shake your instructor. I know all of my 2 instructor AFFs jumps with some messed up flipping exits they stuck right with me.

On my second AFF 1, I was minus 2 instructors.

But all went well. I didn't die, It was the funnest jump I had at that point, and I passed.

[nerd137 0]

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The key for me to passing was that I could ALWAYS get stable quickly.

Really? At what level were you able to regain stability like that? I'm not there yet, but I'm excited thinking about getting to the point where I can continually reposition myself at will. Ya know?

~nerd

[tdog 0]

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You said instructor #2 caught up to you and grab on, that must have been one hell of an exit to shake your instructor. I know all of my 2 instructor AFFs jumps with some messed up flipping exits they stuck right with me.

I lost one AFF instructor on level 2. We had a good exit, but he left just a little before me for no specific reason other than timing issues. (He was not used to the smaller plane for AFFs and I had to relearn a new exit too.) I saw him on his back below me (we were nearly face to face and perpendicular with his legs near the other instructor) as he let go. AFTER he let go, I deacrched and I went unstable and flipped but resolved the problem on my own. He came up next to me and decided not to hold on until the pull, at which time he had his hand ready to grab if I went unstable." He said, you were stable and flying without me, you proved you could regain stability in the flip you did, why should I grab on and change that?"

So, I disagree that only real unstable exits cause instructors to let go or be thrown off.

[adamUK 3]

Hey Nerd,

Don't think you failed the jump... you jumped, lived and still have same number of bones in your body after the jump as before.. so that's a big PASS in my book. It just gives you extra time to get to know and appreciate your (and all) AFF instructors a bit more.

BTW my exits still suck.

take it easy and good luck for next time
Adam.

[Shark 0]

Nick,

I recommend doing 15 minutes in the tunnel, then doing your Level 3.

Mark

[mattjw916 2]

How about just extending those legs, facing the relative wind on exit instead, and making more skydives.

I'm still not a big fan of people pushing tunnel for AFF students unless they have serious body position problems. But hey, instructors are never wrong.

My $0.02.

edit: grammer

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[skyhighkiy 0]

Is it getting hot in here?

BE THE BUDDHA!

[mattjw916 2]

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[LiveLifeGoJump 0]

I got into skydiving the RAPS way, no instructors holding me. I struggled with my eixts but kept trying till I could do them stable out of the plane, then I HAD to do an unstable exit (easy after all the practice I'd had). The main thing is that you get stable for the pull.

In the plane I was so scared that I was going to pack in jumping after each one of my first 85 jumps but as soon as the cut was called I knew 'I'd be back'.

Jump when YOU feel ready, not when others tell you you are ready. Talk to your instructor BEFORE you decide whether to jump again or quit jumping.
DO WHAT YOU DO BECAUSE YOU WANT TO DO IT, NOT BECAUSE OTHERS WANT YOU TO DO IT.

OK so the jump didn't go according to plan, did you enjoy it? Do YOU WANT to jump again?

Get out, Land on a green bit. If you get the pull somewhere in between it would help.

[nerd137 0]

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How about just extending those legs, facing the relative wind on exit instead, and making more skydives. I'm still not a big fan of people pushing tunnel for AFF students unless they have serious body position problems.

Well, I don't see how some tunnel time can hurt. I just want to boost my confidence a bit for freefalling. I know what I did wrong with my exit & won't repeat it, but there is always going to be a chance of becoming unstable in the air. What concerns me is my ability to regain control after it is lost. If I can improve that ability in a controlled environment, I think that's a good thing. I don't want to be overly dependent on my instructors in the air. Besides, there are numerous posts here from AFF students who seemed to do much better in the air after some tunnel training.

[mattjw916 2]

I agree tunnel time can help you in freefall... but you said your problem was going fetal on your last exit. Other than giving you more self-confidence... you can't practice exits in the tunnel and you don't practice getting unstable in the tunnel either.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[nerd137 0]

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The main thing is that you get stable for the pull.

See post above.

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(1) Jump when YOU feel ready, not when others tell you you are ready. (2) Talk to your instructor BEFORE you decide whether to jump again or quit jumping. (3) DO WHAT YOU DO BECAUSE YOU WANT TO DO IT, NOT BECAUSE OTHERS WANT YOU TO DO IT. (4) OK so the jump didn't go according to plan, did you enjoy it? (5) Do YOU WANT to jump again?

(1) Don't worry, I will only go when I feel ready.

(2) Quitting not an option in my mind. I was freaked out for a day, and now I'm over it. Hell, jumping out of an airplane can be a little scary sometimes, right? And I will definitely work with my instructors on my concerns.

(3) See answer #1

(4) I enjoy jumping like crazy, but I'm also used to doing things well. Doing things poorly isn't my style, even when I'm learning. Part of my problem is that most of my hobbies include things that I can read 5 books about in my easy chair and then be pretty good at whatever it was I wanted to learn. That's not the case with this sport, so it's a new kind of challenge for me.

(5) See answer #4 (...and, hell yeah, I wanna jump again! )

By the way, the RAPS method sounds scary as fuck! Man, I'm glad I'm going the AFF route!

But thanks for the feedback, I appreciate all the responses I have gotten!

[bodypilot1 0]

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you don't practice getting unstable in the tunnel either.

You don't have any tunnel time do you....





Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[nerd137 0]

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I agree tunnel time can help you in freefall... but you said your problem was going fetal on your last exit. Other than giving you more self-confidence... you can't practice exits in the tunnel and you don't practice getting unstable in the tunnel either.

I honestly don't know either way. (I'm still the youngin here.) Again, it can't hurt. Tell ya what...after my tunnel time and AFF 3 repeat I'll post here what I think the benefits were or weren't.

• Quote

[mattjw916 2]

Yes, I have more than a couple tunnel sessions.

First timers, i.e. AFF students, in the tunnel (that I witnessed) are closely monitored and grabbed the second they start to go unstable. Maybe this varies, but that was what I have witnessed to-date.

You don't practice barrel rolls from back to belly in your first few, or even ten, minutes of tunnel training that I have ever seen. Turns, PRCPs, and basic "fly the column of air" seems to be the norm. Since the student in question was more concerned about recovering from an unstable body position and had one bad exit... tunnel training wasn't the first thing I would have suggested.

If a new skydiver wants to do tunnel, I say great, go for it. More training never hurt anyone. At the same time I think that the best way to build the necessary skills to pass AFF is to get up there and jump.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[mattjw916 2]

Good luck... I hope you stick with it!

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080

[Casurf1978 0]

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Nick,

I recommend doing 15 minutes in the tunnel, then doing your Level 3.

Mark

Tunnel worked wonders for me. After that session I blew through AFF. Although I still remember making you and Ed really work on my release dive .

[bodypilot1 0]

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I think that the best way to build the necessary skills to pass AFF is to get up there and jump.

I can see since you have been an AFF Instructor for so long, your skill in knowing exactly what a troubled student needs is worth listening to.

Shark made a suggestion to the student after evaluating his air skills I"m sure, and I'm sure he didn't just throw the suggestion out for no reason.

After all, Shark was a student of mine.

At times the tunnel is great for students to gain stability before going into real freefall, therefore making it less stressfull when adding altitude awareness and canopy control.



Be safe
Ed

www.WestCoastWingsuits.com
www.PrecisionSkydiving.com

[mattjw916 2]

1. Lots of people pass AFF without a wind tunnel, as you know.

2. I wasn't disagreeing with Mark, I just offered another point of view.

3. I was just offering my experience (the point of the forum).

4. I am sure the guy was intelligent enough to see the "B" next to my name.

I have no doubt that the guy was getting good advice at Elsinore. First timers are uber impressionable and people often pimp the tunnel a little too much. I am not saying that was the case here, it is just what I have noticed, esp in SoCal.

NSCR-2376, SCR-15080