Approach to fallrate problem.

[Airviking 0]

I'm wondering if there is a quick approach to the fallrate question. Currently, I may be falling too fast, or the few folks who have had the misfortune of jumping with me may be falling too slow. I want to know that I am falling at a current "standard" belly-flying fall rate, and I don't want to blow a lot of season to get there, jumping with different folks who's fallrates are also unknown. I have a Zute Suit which I bought used, and it's almost all spandex. But I don't want to start changing things until I know what's going on.

Back in my glory days, I'd give Flight Suit my measurements and desired fallrate (100mph! ), and they'd make me a suit that was dead-nuts. Case closed!

I guess I could do the same today, but like I said, I'd like to quantify the situation before I throw money at it.

I believe you have my stapler.

[wmw999 2,116]

It's relative. If the people you jump with don't fall at the same rate as you, then it's a relative problem. Different DZ's can actually have different standard fall rates, depending on that DZ. Different groups definitely do. Maybe a different group at the same DZ?

If you're the fastest-falling guy at a slow-falling DZ, then you either need to find a new DZ, or figure out how to fall a little slower -- because convincing the whole DZ to pick up their fall rate is going to be a tough sell.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Airviking 0]

Hey Wendy,

SLOW-FALLING DZ!!! OMG, give me strength! That means that a nomad like me might have to commit to a "home" DZ, because recreational jumpers can't agree on a standard fall-rate?!

Side-note:
I don't understand why casual jumpers abandoned their big suits with swoop cords back in the '80s. (Actually I do: it's because all the RW teams went to tight, fast-falling suits, and everyone copies the skygods, even though they are doing a totally different type of skydive.) Big suits are so much fun to fly and the fallrate control is huge.

I believe you have my stapler.

[Southern_Man 0]

If you had or borrowed for a few jumps an altimeter with a datalogger then you could at least know what your current fall rate is. In my opinion it is the best thing about having an audible altimeter for me.

"What if there were no hypothetical questions?"

[Deisel 35]

There are a ton of variables surrounding this question;
- how many people were on the jump?
- what was the experience level of the other jumpers?
- what was your slot?
- what kind of exit (grip or free fly)?
There are a couple of things I’d look at here. If you were a late diver then move to the front of the lineup. Formations slow down as they build and if you’re hauling ass to catch it you can easily over boggie and blow by it. A lot of jumpers tend to stop flying their bodies once they get to the formation. They all must continue to arch in order to maintain the fall rate. If you’re free flying the exit try launching chunks. It can save time by building your base quickly and will help those struggling to ‘just get in’. Once everyone is stable and relative it’s fairly easy to see who can’t maintain the fall rate once you drop grips. But at the end of the day, everyone has to adjust to everyone else.

The brave may not live forever, but the timid never live at all.

[Abedy 0]

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Hey Wendy,

SLOW-FALLING DZ!!! OMG, give me strength! That means that a nomad like me might have to commit to a "home" DZ, because recreational jumpers can't agree on a standard fall-rate?!

Well, Wendy is - at least according to what I found - right. We have two parachuting clubs in my town. My club is centred on RW, most skydivers are either younger or the older farts are still in good shape. So, bellyflying is usually at a speed of ~180 km/h.
I also jumped with folks from the neighbouring club. Their alpha males are all belly jumpers in a literal sense. Which led to the fact that even the few lighter folks (girls, younger males) fall at quite a speed, usually ~190 km/h. (Both speeds SAS = Skydiver's AirSpeed, broken down to 4000 ft, have a look, at L&Bs website...)

I find it quite interesting that the heavy folks (usually older males) never ever even consider to slim or something but constantly demand that folks with normal weight just "have to arch harder, it ain't that difficult!" Don't take that personally, I'm just venting

The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

[airtwardo 6]

I find it quite interesting that the heavy folks (usually older males) never ever even consider to slim or something but constantly demand that folks with normal weight just "have to arch harder, it ain't that difficult!" Don't take that personally, I'm just venting

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Great, now I'm Old AND Fat...Oy Vey!

I have 3 very different jumpsuits in my gear bag, my usual mid-rate Tony Suit that has a good range of fall rates, an 'old school' Flite Suit with swoop-cords for when the big boyz show up and a tight little spandex fast faller for when I want to feel pretty.

~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

[Abedy 0]

Twardo you're neither old (you're just getting better!) nor are you fat.

Having two or even three jumpsuits is something that really helps, especially when one is "gravitationally challenged" Not that I consider you are but your approach is something I like.

I also have several jumpsuits and even a lead belt around, just in case.

The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

[JohnRich 4]

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I find it quite interesting that the heavy folks (usually older males) never ever even consider to slim or something but constantly demand that folks with normal weight just "have to arch harder, it ain't that difficult!"

It's a lot easier for light people to add a little weight, then it is for heavier people to slim down. And just because someone is heavy, doesn't mean they're fat. You can be heavy and not really have room to lose weight.

And the name of the game is still "RW" - RELATIVE work, although many newbees seem to have forgotten that, or never learned it at all. You don't get to just fly at your own comfortable body position. You have to adjust to fall with the fastest guy, if you want to build formations.

[wmw999 2,116]

Sometimes the fastest guy needs to learn more range, and sometimes the fastest guys all decide to jump together (Anvil brothers).

I can assure you that it sucks to be loaded down with weights all the time, just as it used to suck to always be the low guy when the idea was to fall as slow as possible.

Wendy P.

There is nothing more dangerous than breaking a basic safety rule and getting away with it. It removes fear of the consequences and builds false confidence. (tbrown)

[Airviking 0]

These were simple 2-way & 3-way dives, free-fly exit. One guy in floater position, me (and jumper 3) following out the door. The thing is that almost immediately, I had a lot of horizontal separation to the floater, but not much vertical, again indicating an issue with mismatched drag. The rest of the dive became a challenge. I didn't exactly do a dead spider, but the FS did suffer as the result of fallrate mismatch.

Although I do appreciate the suggestion, to me launching pieces eliminates a couple of the awesome aspects of fun-jumping, i.e. exit and initial formation.

I'm already understanding from you fine folks that a slightly larger suit is in my future.

I believe you have my stapler.

[davelepka 4]

Your profile indicates a Spectre 210 loaded at 1.0. If you correctly calculated your exit weight to include 25 lbs of gear, that puts you at 185lbs body weight. Unless you're 6' 1" or taller, you're probably just too heavy for a suit that's 'mostly spandex'.

Go with your original plan and call Flite Suit. I jump their stuff, and they still build a solid suit that will last you 1000+ jumps. Shoot for a slower fall rate, and then you can either just arch harder when you need to, or if it proves to be way too slow, it's easy enough for a rigger to pinch off some of the baggy material and stich it down to speed the suit up. Slowing down a fast suit requires adding material, and is exponentially harder.

[ufk22 32]

I spent many years jumping a dive-rite suit (no longer made) and after a lot of research bought a Bev suit a couple of years ago that has fantastic range.
It's the "comp" suit, pleated booties, s little extra fabric in the lower arms, nylon front (for fashon), with continuous swoop cords. The suit is all spandex under the arms and around the back, so I have "retractable" wings.
It gives you the ability to go slow sithout wearing an old, baggy, poly-cotton suit.

This is the paradox of skydiving. We do something very dangerous, expose ourselves to a totally unnecesary risk, and then spend our time trying to make it safer.

[Airviking 0]

Thanks Dave,

Actually, I'm more like 6'2", 200lbs, but my metal picture is a little old, so it still has me at 180-185. Yeah, I remember checking into Flight Suit, just to see if they are still around, and it looks like a pretty good thing for me.

I should try my old Flight Suit just for sh*ts and giggles. I can still fit into it, and these guys wouldn't mind an experiment. I'm betting our "team performance" would improve!

I believe you have my stapler.

[Abedy 0]

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And just because someone is heavy, doesn't mean they're fat. You can be heavy and not really have room to lose weight.

If I might guide you back to my OP: I wrote about FAT folks, folks with a swollen belly. I called them "belly flyers in a literal sense". I mean folks with a belly circumference 100cm+ or BMI way beyond 25.
I am perfectly comfortable with folks who weigh 100 kg at a height of 2 metres, coz they are well-built and their weight comes from muscles mainly rather than belly fat. The aforementioned sturdy guys are capable of both "fast" and "slow" bellyflying.
HTH

The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

[Abedy 0]

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I can assure you that it sucks to be loaded down with weights all the time...

I can understand when girls here have a "girls only" jump. One of the reasons: NO weights! - They tell you with a broad smile

I usually took 5 kg (11 lbs) when I did tandem video with ...erm... students whose belly circumference was ... interesting. So I know what it feels like to be loaded with lead and the first thing back in the hangar was to get rid of the lead belt...

The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks

[dragon2 0]

5kg is not all that much... Lightweights often wear more than that.
I used to wear up to 13kg (28lbs) for the "homesick bowlingball" tandems and for filming CRW. Lugging around 1/5 of your body weight in lead is not much fun, and can't be all that healthy either

These days though, I rarely have to use weights... I like to think I've I've learned to fly better, but mostly I'm afraid I now have my lead "built-in" so to speak, ahem

ciel bleu,
Saskia

[mchamp 1]

Simple solution....strap on a weight belt (if need be) and do 4 way except get the 3 others freeflying! Spin do a 360 ankle docks, side body to arm....you get my drift etc

For info regarding lift ticket prices all around the world check out
http://www.jumpticketprices.com/dropzones.asp

[Abedy 0]

Homesick bowlingball tandem, muhahahaha... I like this term. We often call them Kugelbomber

13 kg, wow. Must suck you down, literally. I sometimes thought about buying a new belt (mine is only capable of housing five 1kg-packs) that allows for 7 kg, but up to 10 might be an idea.

But hey, I'm doing tandems now, har har. And all of a sudden I like bowlingball tandems... if winds are 10+ knots

The sky is not the limit. The ground is.

The Society of Skydiving Ducks