JerryBaumchen 1,047 #26 June 26, 2012 Hi Lee, Quote Did they actually bend or was there concern that they would? I'm going from memory but as I recall it was in 1982 and the first ring to bend was a US Army Team guy. I had a couple of rigs that I had built that had the bad rings. To John Rich: They did not need to go back to the factory for testing. There was a field test to determine the good from the bad. JerryBaumchen PS) At the '93 PIA symposium, three guys from Forgecraft gave a seminar on hardware manufacturing. I asked one of them about the elongation characteristics of parachute hardware. Not one of three had any idea of what I was talking about. I then tried the term ductility and they still had no clue. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #27 June 26, 2012 QuoteQuoteI was expecting some hardware failures as well.... hip/chest/ rings or chest/leg/ strap adapters, stuff like this. Back in the early 80's there was a batch of 3-rings that got through the fabrication process without the second heat-treatment process to re-harden them. A few of those soft rings got elongated into ovals upon hard openings. ..." ...................................................................... The soft rings were stamped RW-1-81 and RW-1-82. The repair was to cut off the soft rings and replace them with screw-in RW-6 rings. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #28 June 26, 2012 "Quote... I remember a problem with hip ring deformation on a Wings some years back, but only deformation. Nothing broken ..." ...................................................................... Back during the early 1990s, Rigging Innovations built its first few hundred ringed harnesses (Flexons and '94 Talons) with stainless-steel RW-0 rings (hip or chest). A few of those hip rings bent during painfully hard openings. I vaguely remember Tom Falzone suffering neck injuries when he shredded his main canopy. Tom was the smallest guy to bend hip rings. Those rings suffered permanent deformation, but were still many thousands of pounds away from failure. I did not notice any damage to webbing. These bent during the "perfect storm" of ZP fabric, zero-stretch suspension lines, Tube Stows, and wing-loadings starting to exceed one pound per square foot for the first time. I remember re-building three R.I. harnesses with cadmium-plated RW-0 rings. The cadmium-plated rings were stiffer and eliminated problems with bending. Wings had a similar problem with stainless steel hip rings a decade or so later. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #29 June 26, 2012 "Quote.. I've seen damage to the hip junctions of Javelins where they torque down wards popping stiches above the legstrap. ... I've seen damage in the same spot on a number of other rigs. Designs with the webbing sandwiched in between the layers of the main lift web seem to show this damage less often but I still see it. ... I've seen harnesses with a significant amount of the pattern broken, 50%. ... As an example remember when Booth changed his harness design so that the legstrap wraps around the inner peace of type 8? The change was made back in the middle of the Vector 2's. V1 and early V2 are just sandwiched in and the later V2's and V3 wrap around. Looks the same from the outside but it was a "minor change" that he could make to give it some redundancy. There are plenty of others that still use a plug in sandwich on there continuous harnesses. ..." ......................................................................... On conventional (non-ringed) hip joints (Vector 1 or Talon 1), the upper leg strap tries to bend down-ward to equalize the load. That shift can put all the load on the top edge of the upper leg strap. This concentrates the load on one stitch, where the top edge of the upper leg strap meets the main lift web. Circa 1990, RWS issued a Service Bulletin saying to inspect Vector 1 Tandem instructor harness hip joints to ensure that they had a double row of stitching (5 cord) along the forward edge. If not ... riggers were supposed to overstitch ... I have seen that stitch popped on a variety of harnesses, including: Vector 1, Talon 1, Javelin, etc. Amusingly, rings help reduce this point loading. When Al MacDoanld (Flying High) introduced hip rings (on Sidewinder harnesses), he did a few tensile tests and found that ringed hip joints were 15 percent stronger. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #30 June 26, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteI was expecting some hardware failures as well.... hip/chest/ rings or chest/leg/ strap adapters, stuff like this. Back in the early 80's there was a batch of 3-rings that got through the fabrication process without the second heat-treatment process to re-harden them. A few of those soft rings got elongated into ovals upon hard openings. ..." ...................................................................... The soft rings were stamped RW-1-81 and RW-1-82. The repair was to cut off the soft rings and replace them with screw-in RW-6 rings. http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/PDF/Support/Product%20Service%20Bulletins/09207.pdf SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites skydiverek 54 #31 June 26, 2012 Two harnesses broke on Javelin containers around year 2004. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #32 June 26, 2012 QuoteTo John Rich: They did not need to go back to the factory for testing. There was a field test to determine the good from the bad. From my memory the procedure was to return the rig to the manufacturer, who then did a Rockwell hardness test on the rings. That involves pushing a diamond tip into the steel under a certain amount of pressure, and by then measuring the depth of the penetration it determined the hardness. And that certainly isn't a simple field test that just anyone could do. You also got a little slip of paper back with your rig to show the test results, and you could then present that to anyone who questioned you on the matter to prove that you had the test done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #33 June 27, 2012 QuoteFrom my memory the procedure was to return the rig to the manufacturer, who then did a Rockwell hardness test on the rings. John, I posted the SB from RWS that outlined the procedure for testing the rings. (#30) It also explains how to replace them if they fail the test. Very few riggers or jumpers for that matter had access to a Rockwell hardness testing equipment. Even if they did, RWS did not give any parameter for the test. I did manage to test mine with a Rockwell machine and it came out at Rc-50. They can be very expensive. http://www.timegroupusa.com/index.php?cPath=2_84_93 SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ctrph8 0 #34 June 27, 2012 This isn't exactly what you are talking about but here goes: When I was going through my rigger training I borrowed an old Racer that had lived a heroic and hard life to practice packing. During the inspection I found that all of the hardware had rusted and that some of it had been slowly sawing through the harness in places until it was retired. Nothing was cut all the way through but if memory serves, I'd guess that there were places in the webbing that were 25% degraded. I also seem to remember a Vector where the adapter for the chest strap had done the same thing and was cutting through the attachment point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites RiggerLee 61 #35 June 27, 2012 Used to see the same thing on a lot of the security rigs. Sail planes. People sweat like pigs in them, hardware coroads. The security had the hard ware up on the chest crossed in an X. As I recall it was in a type 7 loop but I don't think it had a buffer strip. Tended to knaw on the webbing. I was glad to see them go. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #36 June 27, 2012 QuoteI posted the SB from RWS that outlined the procedure for testing the rings. (#30) Hi Sparky. How did one perform a 2,500 pull test in the field? Not being a smart-alek, just trying to understand how that would be done. I'm imagining a VW Beetle for weight, a lthick rope, a strong tree limb, and some pulleys... I guess if you had a heavy duty tension gauge, you could just pull on it with a car until someone holllers "stop!". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #37 June 27, 2012 QuoteQuoteI posted the SB from RWS that outlined the procedure for testing the rings. (#30) Hi Sparky. How did one perform a 2,500 pull test in the field? Not being a smart-alek, just trying to understand how that would be done. I'm imagining a VW Beetle for weight, a lthick rope, a strong tree limb, and some pulleys... I guess if you had a heavy duty tension gauge, you could just pull on it with a car until someone holllers "stop!". I saw a 'mobile unit' years back when this was happening fresh...it was a 2-ton hyrdalic cylinder with a hand pump like a car jack that was mounted on a piece of 4x4. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #38 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteHow did one perform a 2,500 pull test in the field? Not being a smart-alek, just trying to understand how that would be done. I'm imagining a VW Beetle for weight, a lthick rope, a strong tree limb, and some pulleys... I guess if you had a heavy duty tension gauge, you could just pull on it with a car until someone holllers "stop!". I saw a 'mobile unit' years back when this was happening fresh...it was a 2-ton hyrdalic cylinder with a hand pump like a car jack that was mounted on a piece of 4x4. Now that I think about it, just about any good redneck could figure out a way to perform such a test. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #39 June 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote How did one perform a 2,500 pull test in the field? Not being a smart-alek, just trying to understand how that would be done. I'm imagining a VW Beetle for weight, a lthick rope, a strong tree limb, and some pulleys... I guess if you had a heavy duty tension gauge, you could just pull on it with a car until someone holllers "stop!". I saw a 'mobile unit' years back when this was happening fresh...it was a 2-ton hyrdalic cylinder with a hand pump like a car jack that was mounted on a piece of 4x4. Now that I think about it, just about any good redneck could figure out a way to perform such a test. Are you calling me a redneck? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites airtwardo 6 #40 June 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote How did one perform a 2,500 pull test in the field? Not being a smart-alek, just trying to understand how that would be done. I'm imagining a VW Beetle for weight, a lthick rope, a strong tree limb, and some pulleys... I guess if you had a heavy duty tension gauge, you could just pull on it with a car until someone holllers "stop!". I saw a 'mobile unit' years back when this was happening fresh...it was a 2-ton hyrdalic cylinder with a hand pump like a car jack that was mounted on a piece of 4x4. Now that I think about it, just about any good redneck could figure out a way to perform such a test. Are you calling me a redneck? Sparky Was that yours? I remember 'someone' having it at Elsinore back in the day. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #41 June 29, 2012 Quote Quote Now that I think about it, just about any good redneck could figure out a way to perform such a test. Are you calling me a redneck? Sparky Yours is more orange than red, I believe. But at any rate, that's a compliment to a man's ingenuity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #42 July 3, 2012 QuoteTwo harnesses broke on Javelin containers around year 2004. ..................................................................... Yes, Student Javelins suffered broken main lift webs where they wrapped through the friction adapters (MS-22040). On July 19, 2004, Sun Path issued Service Bulletin SP03 ordering the inspection of all adjustable MLWs on Student Javelins. Over the following winter, I replaced adjustable MLWs on twenty Student Javelins and refused to waste my time on another twenty Student Javelins that were frayed even worse! We never did hear the full story, but I have seen fraying on adjustable harnesses from other manufacturers. I suspect that the problem started with rough edges on the hardware. Also, most designs of adjustable MLWs slip a little during the first fraction of a second of opening shock. Once the webbing is correctly aligned with the load, they quit slipping, but that fraction of an inch of slippage is enough to abrade webbing. For example, I have replaced frayed MLWs on at least a dozen Student Sidewinders (Type 13 webbing). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites mjosparky 3 #43 July 3, 2012 It doesn’t take much to weaken webbing a whole bunch. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites voilsb 1 #44 July 3, 2012 Now that's interesting. I wonder how much damage it would take to weaken it to half it's rated strength ...Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #45 July 3, 2012 "Quote... I also seem to remember a Vector where the adapter for the chest strap had done the same thing and was cutting through the attachment point." ....................................................................... In March 1986, DJ Associates (hardware wholesalers) issued "MS 7010 Warning Notice" about rough edges on lightweight chest strap buckles. Several harness manufacturers installed these defective friction adapters. The last defective one - that I found - was on a '94 Talon. The problem originates during manufacture, and should be caught by inspectors before it leaves the hardware factory. Remember that MS 70101 are one of the few pieces of parachute hardware cold-stamped from sheet steel. Then the hardware is supposed to be tumbled until all the rough edges disappear. If the manufacturer does not remove all the sharp edges, eventually webbing suffers. This problem is not unique to the parachute industry. Seat-belt manufacturers can suffer the same problem. For example, I know of a bus company that is in the process of discarding a batch of (hundreds of) seat belts - some as little as three years old - because rough edges on (cold-stamped) buckles have frayed through selvage edges of seat-belt webbing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fcajump 153 #46 July 3, 2012 Quote"Quote... I also seem to remember a Vector where the adapter for the chest strap had done the same thing and was cutting through the attachment point." ....................................................................... In March 1986, DJ Associates (hardware wholesalers) issued "MS 7010 Warning Notice" about rough edges on lightweight chest strap buckles. Several harness manufacturers installed these defective friction adapters. The last defective one - that I found - was on a '94 Talon. The problem originates during manufacture, and should be caught by inspectors before it leaves the hardware factory. Remember that MS 70101 are one of the few pieces of parachute hardware cold-stamped from sheet steel. As I recall that's why the part was changed to "MS 70101-1" and now "PS 70101-1", to indicate that it's been further processed (tested?) to ward against that issue. Before my time, but good stuff to know. JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fcajump 153 #47 July 3, 2012 QuoteIt doesn’t take much to weaken webbing a whole bunch. Sparky I wish there was a central repository for stuff like this for riggers. Some rigs are easy, this one is "as new" that one is beat to sh!t and I can pull it apart with my hands... Its the 18 year old, mostly good, slightly sunfaded, velcro picked with a selvage edge nick low on the running end of the leg strap that worry me... Samples/examples/studies and tests of the old gear would be much better at helping us inspect and, if needed, explain why a trusted rig shouldn't be trusted (or packed) any more. JW PS - think about it... do you really want to continue using the gear until all service life is used up? (i.e. it won't take even one more jump) Unless you are willing to do that, then yes... you are going to retire a rig that "still has some life left in it."Always remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites JohnRich 4 #48 July 3, 2012 QuoteQuote"Quote... I also seem to remember a Vector where the adapter for the chest strap had done the same thing and was cutting through the attachment point." ....................................................................... In March 1986, DJ Associates (hardware wholesalers) issued "MS 7010 Warning Notice" about rough edges on lightweight chest strap buckles. Several harness manufacturers installed these defective friction adapters. The last defective one - that I found - was on a '94 Talon. The problem originates during manufacture, and should be caught by inspectors before it leaves the hardware factory. Remember that MS 70101 are one of the few pieces of parachute hardware cold-stamped from sheet steel. As I recall that's why the part was changed to "MS 70101-1" and now "PS 70101-1", to indicate that it's been further processed (tested?) to ward against that issue. Before my time, but good stuff to know. JW Also why rigs now are built with a chest strap that has a sacrificial strip inside the load-bearing chest strap, so that if any sharp edge is present to cut into the webbing, the sacrificial strip will absorb that wear, and protect the load-bearing chest strap from being cut. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites pchapman 261 #49 July 3, 2012 Quote Also why rigs now are built with a chest strop that has a sacrificial strip inside the load-bearing chest strap, so that if any sharp edge is present to cut into the we. Of course that protects just the fixed side. The side that threads through the buckle can't benefit from that fix. On the other hand, rigs nowadays used doubled-up chest strap webbing much more than they used to, when a single type 8 strap was more common. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites fcajump 153 #50 July 3, 2012 QuoteQuote Also why rigs now are built with a chest strop that has a sacrificial strip inside the load-bearing chest strap, so that if any sharp edge is present to cut into the we. Of course that protects just the fixed side. The side that threads through the buckle can't benefit from that fix. On the other hand, rigs nowadays used doubled-up chest strap webbing much more than they used to, when a single type 8 strap was more common. Some do, some don't... JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Prev 1 2 3 Next Page 2 of 3 Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. Display as a link instead × Your previous content has been restored. Clear editor × You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL. Insert image from URL × Desktop Tablet Phone Submit Reply 0
mjosparky 3 #30 June 26, 2012 QuoteQuoteQuoteI was expecting some hardware failures as well.... hip/chest/ rings or chest/leg/ strap adapters, stuff like this. Back in the early 80's there was a batch of 3-rings that got through the fabrication process without the second heat-treatment process to re-harden them. A few of those soft rings got elongated into ovals upon hard openings. ..." ...................................................................... The soft rings were stamped RW-1-81 and RW-1-82. The repair was to cut off the soft rings and replace them with screw-in RW-6 rings. http://www.unitedparachutetechnologies.com/PDF/Support/Product%20Service%20Bulletins/09207.pdf SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skydiverek 54 #31 June 26, 2012 Two harnesses broke on Javelin containers around year 2004. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #32 June 26, 2012 QuoteTo John Rich: They did not need to go back to the factory for testing. There was a field test to determine the good from the bad. From my memory the procedure was to return the rig to the manufacturer, who then did a Rockwell hardness test on the rings. That involves pushing a diamond tip into the steel under a certain amount of pressure, and by then measuring the depth of the penetration it determined the hardness. And that certainly isn't a simple field test that just anyone could do. You also got a little slip of paper back with your rig to show the test results, and you could then present that to anyone who questioned you on the matter to prove that you had the test done. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #33 June 27, 2012 QuoteFrom my memory the procedure was to return the rig to the manufacturer, who then did a Rockwell hardness test on the rings. John, I posted the SB from RWS that outlined the procedure for testing the rings. (#30) It also explains how to replace them if they fail the test. Very few riggers or jumpers for that matter had access to a Rockwell hardness testing equipment. Even if they did, RWS did not give any parameter for the test. I did manage to test mine with a Rockwell machine and it came out at Rc-50. They can be very expensive. http://www.timegroupusa.com/index.php?cPath=2_84_93 SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ctrph8 0 #34 June 27, 2012 This isn't exactly what you are talking about but here goes: When I was going through my rigger training I borrowed an old Racer that had lived a heroic and hard life to practice packing. During the inspection I found that all of the hardware had rusted and that some of it had been slowly sawing through the harness in places until it was retired. Nothing was cut all the way through but if memory serves, I'd guess that there were places in the webbing that were 25% degraded. I also seem to remember a Vector where the adapter for the chest strap had done the same thing and was cutting through the attachment point. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #35 June 27, 2012 Used to see the same thing on a lot of the security rigs. Sail planes. People sweat like pigs in them, hardware coroads. The security had the hard ware up on the chest crossed in an X. As I recall it was in a type 7 loop but I don't think it had a buffer strip. Tended to knaw on the webbing. I was glad to see them go. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #36 June 27, 2012 QuoteI posted the SB from RWS that outlined the procedure for testing the rings. (#30) Hi Sparky. How did one perform a 2,500 pull test in the field? Not being a smart-alek, just trying to understand how that would be done. I'm imagining a VW Beetle for weight, a lthick rope, a strong tree limb, and some pulleys... I guess if you had a heavy duty tension gauge, you could just pull on it with a car until someone holllers "stop!". Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #37 June 27, 2012 QuoteQuoteI posted the SB from RWS that outlined the procedure for testing the rings. (#30) Hi Sparky. How did one perform a 2,500 pull test in the field? Not being a smart-alek, just trying to understand how that would be done. I'm imagining a VW Beetle for weight, a lthick rope, a strong tree limb, and some pulleys... I guess if you had a heavy duty tension gauge, you could just pull on it with a car until someone holllers "stop!". I saw a 'mobile unit' years back when this was happening fresh...it was a 2-ton hyrdalic cylinder with a hand pump like a car jack that was mounted on a piece of 4x4. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #38 June 28, 2012 QuoteQuoteHow did one perform a 2,500 pull test in the field? Not being a smart-alek, just trying to understand how that would be done. I'm imagining a VW Beetle for weight, a lthick rope, a strong tree limb, and some pulleys... I guess if you had a heavy duty tension gauge, you could just pull on it with a car until someone holllers "stop!". I saw a 'mobile unit' years back when this was happening fresh...it was a 2-ton hyrdalic cylinder with a hand pump like a car jack that was mounted on a piece of 4x4. Now that I think about it, just about any good redneck could figure out a way to perform such a test. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #39 June 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote How did one perform a 2,500 pull test in the field? Not being a smart-alek, just trying to understand how that would be done. I'm imagining a VW Beetle for weight, a lthick rope, a strong tree limb, and some pulleys... I guess if you had a heavy duty tension gauge, you could just pull on it with a car until someone holllers "stop!". I saw a 'mobile unit' years back when this was happening fresh...it was a 2-ton hyrdalic cylinder with a hand pump like a car jack that was mounted on a piece of 4x4. Now that I think about it, just about any good redneck could figure out a way to perform such a test. Are you calling me a redneck? SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
airtwardo 6 #40 June 29, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote How did one perform a 2,500 pull test in the field? Not being a smart-alek, just trying to understand how that would be done. I'm imagining a VW Beetle for weight, a lthick rope, a strong tree limb, and some pulleys... I guess if you had a heavy duty tension gauge, you could just pull on it with a car until someone holllers "stop!". I saw a 'mobile unit' years back when this was happening fresh...it was a 2-ton hyrdalic cylinder with a hand pump like a car jack that was mounted on a piece of 4x4. Now that I think about it, just about any good redneck could figure out a way to perform such a test. Are you calling me a redneck? Sparky Was that yours? I remember 'someone' having it at Elsinore back in the day. ~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~ Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #41 June 29, 2012 Quote Quote Now that I think about it, just about any good redneck could figure out a way to perform such a test. Are you calling me a redneck? Sparky Yours is more orange than red, I believe. But at any rate, that's a compliment to a man's ingenuity. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #42 July 3, 2012 QuoteTwo harnesses broke on Javelin containers around year 2004. ..................................................................... Yes, Student Javelins suffered broken main lift webs where they wrapped through the friction adapters (MS-22040). On July 19, 2004, Sun Path issued Service Bulletin SP03 ordering the inspection of all adjustable MLWs on Student Javelins. Over the following winter, I replaced adjustable MLWs on twenty Student Javelins and refused to waste my time on another twenty Student Javelins that were frayed even worse! We never did hear the full story, but I have seen fraying on adjustable harnesses from other manufacturers. I suspect that the problem started with rough edges on the hardware. Also, most designs of adjustable MLWs slip a little during the first fraction of a second of opening shock. Once the webbing is correctly aligned with the load, they quit slipping, but that fraction of an inch of slippage is enough to abrade webbing. For example, I have replaced frayed MLWs on at least a dozen Student Sidewinders (Type 13 webbing). Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mjosparky 3 #43 July 3, 2012 It doesn’t take much to weaken webbing a whole bunch. SparkyMy idea of a fair fight is clubbing baby seals Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
voilsb 1 #44 July 3, 2012 Now that's interesting. I wonder how much damage it would take to weaken it to half it's rated strength ...Brian Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #45 July 3, 2012 "Quote... I also seem to remember a Vector where the adapter for the chest strap had done the same thing and was cutting through the attachment point." ....................................................................... In March 1986, DJ Associates (hardware wholesalers) issued "MS 7010 Warning Notice" about rough edges on lightweight chest strap buckles. Several harness manufacturers installed these defective friction adapters. The last defective one - that I found - was on a '94 Talon. The problem originates during manufacture, and should be caught by inspectors before it leaves the hardware factory. Remember that MS 70101 are one of the few pieces of parachute hardware cold-stamped from sheet steel. Then the hardware is supposed to be tumbled until all the rough edges disappear. If the manufacturer does not remove all the sharp edges, eventually webbing suffers. This problem is not unique to the parachute industry. Seat-belt manufacturers can suffer the same problem. For example, I know of a bus company that is in the process of discarding a batch of (hundreds of) seat belts - some as little as three years old - because rough edges on (cold-stamped) buckles have frayed through selvage edges of seat-belt webbing. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #46 July 3, 2012 Quote"Quote... I also seem to remember a Vector where the adapter for the chest strap had done the same thing and was cutting through the attachment point." ....................................................................... In March 1986, DJ Associates (hardware wholesalers) issued "MS 7010 Warning Notice" about rough edges on lightweight chest strap buckles. Several harness manufacturers installed these defective friction adapters. The last defective one - that I found - was on a '94 Talon. The problem originates during manufacture, and should be caught by inspectors before it leaves the hardware factory. Remember that MS 70101 are one of the few pieces of parachute hardware cold-stamped from sheet steel. As I recall that's why the part was changed to "MS 70101-1" and now "PS 70101-1", to indicate that it's been further processed (tested?) to ward against that issue. Before my time, but good stuff to know. JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #47 July 3, 2012 QuoteIt doesn’t take much to weaken webbing a whole bunch. Sparky I wish there was a central repository for stuff like this for riggers. Some rigs are easy, this one is "as new" that one is beat to sh!t and I can pull it apart with my hands... Its the 18 year old, mostly good, slightly sunfaded, velcro picked with a selvage edge nick low on the running end of the leg strap that worry me... Samples/examples/studies and tests of the old gear would be much better at helping us inspect and, if needed, explain why a trusted rig shouldn't be trusted (or packed) any more. JW PS - think about it... do you really want to continue using the gear until all service life is used up? (i.e. it won't take even one more jump) Unless you are willing to do that, then yes... you are going to retire a rig that "still has some life left in it."Always remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
JohnRich 4 #48 July 3, 2012 QuoteQuote"Quote... I also seem to remember a Vector where the adapter for the chest strap had done the same thing and was cutting through the attachment point." ....................................................................... In March 1986, DJ Associates (hardware wholesalers) issued "MS 7010 Warning Notice" about rough edges on lightweight chest strap buckles. Several harness manufacturers installed these defective friction adapters. The last defective one - that I found - was on a '94 Talon. The problem originates during manufacture, and should be caught by inspectors before it leaves the hardware factory. Remember that MS 70101 are one of the few pieces of parachute hardware cold-stamped from sheet steel. As I recall that's why the part was changed to "MS 70101-1" and now "PS 70101-1", to indicate that it's been further processed (tested?) to ward against that issue. Before my time, but good stuff to know. JW Also why rigs now are built with a chest strap that has a sacrificial strip inside the load-bearing chest strap, so that if any sharp edge is present to cut into the webbing, the sacrificial strip will absorb that wear, and protect the load-bearing chest strap from being cut. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
pchapman 261 #49 July 3, 2012 Quote Also why rigs now are built with a chest strop that has a sacrificial strip inside the load-bearing chest strap, so that if any sharp edge is present to cut into the we. Of course that protects just the fixed side. The side that threads through the buckle can't benefit from that fix. On the other hand, rigs nowadays used doubled-up chest strap webbing much more than they used to, when a single type 8 strap was more common. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #50 July 3, 2012 QuoteQuote Also why rigs now are built with a chest strop that has a sacrificial strip inside the load-bearing chest strap, so that if any sharp edge is present to cut into the we. Of course that protects just the fixed side. The side that threads through the buckle can't benefit from that fix. On the other hand, rigs nowadays used doubled-up chest strap webbing much more than they used to, when a single type 8 strap was more common. Some do, some don't... JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
