Conscientious Objector

[Guest]

Kinda silly, really, but I believe everybody has the right to be
young and stupid.

The only problem I have is with the timing. Aside from that, there is, I think, a big "DUH!" factor here, as if this punk was clueless about what the military in general, and the USMC in particular, have a reputation for: The controlled application of horrific amounts of violence.


"That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us."

-- Henry V

[jtval 0]

maybe SCARED SHITLESS and he knows that defense may hold up in court....but NOT in military court

well its hard to giveback that training...like he really thought the marines WOULDNT have to go in first!

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[Guest]

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maybe SCARED SHITLESS and he knows that defense may hold up in court....but NOT in military court

well its hard to giveback that training...like he really thought the marines WOULDNT have to go in first!

Let's give him the benefit of the doubt, shall we? After all, he's from the Bay Area, and Berkeley declared itself an "Objector (read - deserter) Refuge" back in PGW1. He's probably been exposed to a lot of bleeding-heart liberal nonsense about how he'd be made to bayonet babies, etc.

At least he turned himself in to face the music - if I were on the board that is going to decide what action will be taken, that would be a factor in his favor. As for the AWOL - that happens all the time, and isn't, given sufficient mitigation, an Article 15 offense.

If I were the USMC - I'd give him a GD and send him home. Prosecuting him or letting him stay would be no good.

edit for spelling.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[AggieDave 6]

Lets see, "I'm going to join the most leathal fighting force the US has and I object to war..."

Fucking brain donor. I have no problems with people who are CO's (objectors, not commanders), but why the fuck would you join the military? Get money for school? If you're not willing to fight, then you don't deserve the fucking money. I hope he gets to go to Kansas and work with rocks for a while.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[aufreefly 0]

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but why the fuck would you join the military? Get money for school? If you're not willing to fight, then you don't deserve the fucking money. I hope he gets to go to Kansas and work with rocks for a while.

I totally agree, but some would have you believe that this is acceptable. I also think that they should give the guy that will have to take his place in Iraq Mr. Funk's home address, maybe they could have a discussion when the honorable soldier returns from this war. Mr. Funk should be punished to the full extent of the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice).

[Guest]

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Lets see, "I'm going to join the most leathal fighting force the US has and I object to war..."

Fucking brain donor. I have no problems with people who are CO's (objectors, not commanders), but why the fuck would you join the military? Get money for school? If you're not willing to fight, then you don't deserve the fucking money. I hope he gets to go to Kansas and work with rocks for a while.

Now, now

He hasn't done anything to justify a trip to Kansas. Like the article said, he'll be interviewed, and if they decide he's on the level, he'll be cut loose. There's no justice served in punishing someone for having a personal epihany, a change of heart in which a soldier (Marine, in this case) decides he isn't cut out for killing. I'm sure it's pretty hard for him to look his mates in the eye as it is. His initial bad decision (in this case, enlisting in the USMC) has been compounded by the difficulty he's placed himself in. Like I said, young and stupid - made a mistake and should have known better, but shouldn't have to pay for it the rest of his life.

Were I his Gunny or First Shirt or CO (the other CO ), I'd question him carefully and try to get him to articulate his thoughts/feelings on the matter, give him some time to think it over or maybe change his mind, and at the end of that, if he was still in the same mindset, quietly give him a General Discharge and a bus ticket home.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[happythoughts 0]

Perhaps he didn't know that the Marines involved themselves with violence on occasion. He may not read the newspaper as thoroughly as others.

[Kris 0]

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Lets see, "I'm going to join the most leathal fighting force the US has and I object to war..."

Fucking brain donor. I have no problems with people who are CO's (objectors, not commanders), but why the fuck would you join the military? Get money for school? If you're not willing to fight, then you don't deserve the fucking money. I hope he gets to go to Kansas and work with rocks for a while.

There are many people in the military who do not care for fighting and are not required to fight, Dave. Are you going to tell the military clergy that they don't deserve their money either?

Kris

Sky, Muff Bro, Rodriguez Bro, and
Bastion of Purity and Innocence!™

[AggieDave 6]

Did this kid enlist as a Clergy or a non-combatant? Nope. That's my point.

Also, Marines are Marines first. They all go to boot camp or OCS, they all learn how to fight, how to survive, how to be a Marine. Then they go on to what ever thy are to do, so even the Clergy, if need be, can pick up a SAW or a M-16 or whatever and do some fighting.

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[happythoughts 0]

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"I was just thinking of it as something to do as I passed by time to become a California resident..."

He was a new resident of Berkeley and hadn't acclimated himself to California yet. Maybe when he joined the Marines, he hadn't gone the the painful "straw extraction" yet. Maybe his epiphany came after they sucked half his brains out of his ear with a drink straw.

Some people think that the Marines just go camping a lot. He didn't realize that he would have to go break peoples stuff and offend them.

[taz9420 0]

REMEMBER: FREEDOM IS NOT FREE.

[Guest]

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Did this kid enlist as a Clergy or a non-combatant? Nope. That's my point.

Also, Marines are Marines first. They all go to boot camp or OCS, they all learn how to fight, how to survive, how to be a Marine. Then they go on to what ever they are to do, so even the Clergy, if need be, can pick up a SAW or a M-16 or whatever and do some fighting.

Yeah, I know, but like I said - young and stupid, and made a bad decision by enlisting. I don't think somebody should have their life ruined due to a lack of self-understanding.

Perhaps he'll now go to Haight-Ashbury and wear flowers in his hair.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[AggieDave 6]

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Perhaps he'll now go to Haight-Ashbury and wear flowers in his hair.

hahahaha

--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline."

[aufreefly 0]

It is kind of funny that this came up. I have many skydiver friends that are in the Army. A large majority of them are in the middle east as I write this. One of them was going to be staying in GA, as he is in a non-deployable billet. But with two days warning he was sent to the middle east. Why? Because some kid had decided that he was not going to go and had decided that he must see a physician to give an evaluation on his mental condition. He gets to stay here and feel sorry for himself, while another with the courage to stand up for what he believed in went to the middle east. The way that my friend put it was "after the war at least I will be able to respect myself."

Big newsflash for anyone who enlists in the military (or accepts money for college) and is in a fighting unit, you will have to fight. They made the decision and they will have to live with it.

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I don't think somebody should have their life ruined due to a lack of self-understanding.

What about the guy that will replace this kid. What if he gets involved in the fighting. Then whose life will be ruined? See my above example. This guy I know was doing taxes for people last week. Is he as current in his training as the combat unit guy is? Probably not.

[lummy 4]

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After all, he's from the Bay Area, and Berkeley declared itself an "Objector (read - deserter) Refuge" back in PGW1. He's probably been exposed to a lot of bleeding-heart liberal nonsense about how he'd be made to bayonet babies, etc.

He is??? The Article says he's from Seattle

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There are so many evil things about war," said Funk, who is originally from Seattle. "There is no way to justify war because you're paying with human lives

The article reads that he's stationed in San Jose (bay area) which would lead one to beleive that is why he is here. But then again, those bleeding heart liberals are ALL around trying to convert anybody and everybody with their distorted viewpoints....

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[jlmiracle 7]

All I have to say about this. If you don't want to cheer for the home team, get the fuck out of the stadium.

I'll buy him a ticket to Iraq where he can live in pieces and harmony.

Judy

Be kinder than necessary because everyone you meet is fighting some kind of battle.

[wildblue 4]

Kris -
It was brought up before that there's a number of people in the armed services that don't really want to fight, they just want money for college, a job, or whatever. That idea was vehemently denied by some on here that are currently enlisted.

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[Guest]

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What about the guy that will replace this kid.

Surely he'd be more effective than somebody who doesn't want to fight at all.

Once again --

"That he which hath no stomach to this fight,
Let him depart; his passport shall be made
And crowns for convoy put into his purse:
We would not die in that man's company
That fears his fellowship to die with us."

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[fudd 0]

I am a conscientious objector myself. I would say it sounds like he has been using the system to get benifits, going against his beliefs.

Being a CO means that you are not willing to take any part in the military, but rather work for the alternativs. As a CO I would not work in any position for the military. I see no difference in cooking the food for the soldier who kills, than beein the one who pulls the trigger.

It would seem fair to demand that he pays some kind of compensation for the benifits he has got.

There are only 10 types of people in the world. Those who understand binary, and those who don't.

[staticnewbie 0]

I'm not from the US - could someone enlighten me on what conscientious objector status is, exactly? And how you go about acheiving it? I don't know if we have anything that is directly comparable in the UK (we probably do).

I agree, this kid needs some sense knocking into him.It's fair enough to join up while you decide what to do with your life, but if you're dead against direct violence don't join the Marines. I would have thought the training would have weeded this characteristic out and he would have failed selection.

This username sucks, so I'm BBKid now instead. Replies, insults, sexual favours and death threats to be sent there from now on.

[rocketfeuille 0]

This makes me angry. There are some guys in the National Guard here who I have a couple classes with. The other day, they were talking about ways they could "get out of it" if their unit was activated. This kind of thing is utterly ridiculous. If you joined the military, you signed up to fight. Period. I can understand not wanting to serve at all, but anyone who would sign up for the benefits and then try to cop out on the conflicts should be punished.

[Guest]

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This makes me angry. There are some guys in the National Guard here who I have a couple classes with. The other day, they were talking about ways they could "get out of it" if their unit was activated. This kind of thing is utterly ridiculous. If you joined the military, you signed up to fight. Period. I can understand not wanting to serve at all, but anyone who would sign up for the benefits and then try to cop out on the conflicts should be punished.

If that's what's happening here, I can see punishment, but I'm not certain that's the case. This wasn't a Guard slacker - he's active duty.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[lummy 4]

I'm pretty sure he is reserves..

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[Guest]

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I am a conscientious objector myself. I would say it sounds like he has been using the system to get benifits, going against his beliefs.

Being a CO means that you are not willing to take any part in the military, but rather work for the alternativs. As a CO I would not work in any position for the military. I see no difference in cooking the food for the soldier who kills, than beein the one who pulls the trigger.

It would seem fair to demand that he pays some kind of compensation for the benifits he has got.

Technically, you're right - there is no difference. In a war zone (so says the Geneva Convention) , it doesn't matter if you're a bottle-washer or a rifleman - if you're wearing a uniform, you're considered a combatant and thus fair game, which is why the Convention goes to such lengths to specify protections for non-combatants, and legal punishments for those who violate the Conventions (up to summary execution - if you're caught bearing arms in a war zone whilst wearing civilian clothes or your enemy's uniform).

That being said, if he's serious and shows the courage of his convictions by accepting whatever judgement the USMC decides is appropriate, will place him in true CO status, and yes, he may be compelled to forfeit. If he was just "in it for the benefits", he could have enlisted in the Air Force and lived the Life of Reilly, far from the danger. That's why I think he's sincere. He thought he was gonna be a gung-ho trigger-puller, but found out that he doesn't have what it takes. Oh well, better now than in a firefight, when his mates are relying on him for their lives.

"The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat."

[billvon 2,396]

>All I have to say about this. If you don't want to cheer for the
>home team, get the fuck out of the stadium.

>I'll buy him a ticket to Iraq where he can live in pieces and harmony.

Ironic. The US used to be the place where dissent was tolerated, even encouraged; Iraq used to be the place where you had to "get the fuck out of the stadium" if you disagreed. I guess times change.