flyingstrauss 0 #1 April 24, 2012 Hi everyone, can someone tell me is it true that PdF Springos are sized one size smaller than PD canopies? Like, a 120ft Springo is equal to 107ft Stiletto? A friend of mine heard this, but I'm not really sure. Thanks. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ps5601 0 #2 April 24, 2012 I am sure that there are better people than me to answer this, but as I understand it PdF have a different way of measuring their canopies compared to the Americans. One measures the surface area (as best they can) and the other measures basically the shadow that is cast on the ground. Because the canopy is not a 2D object measuring direct surface area can be a problem. Anyway, this difference in method leads to PdF canopies being slightly smaller than US canopies for the same quoted size. At least this is as it was explained to me when I used to jump a Spingo. I don't know exactly how much smaller a PdF canopy would be compared to a same quoted size US canopy, but I doubt it would be a whole size smaller. I was told that my Springo 140 was about the same size as a US 135. Hope that helps Blue skies Paul Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #3 April 24, 2012 QuoteI was told that my Springo 140 was about the same size as a US 135. What is US 135? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites ps5601 0 #4 April 25, 2012 "US 135" is crudely, a canopy from a US manufacturer - I gather they use similar method of measurement and so a PD 135 would be pretty much the same physcial size as an Aerodyne or Icarus 135. However a PdF 135 would have a physcial size that was slightly smaller. As PdF have pretty much given up sport parachuting sales it's not an issue that will be around for much longer. Blue skies Paul Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites phoenixlpr 0 #5 April 25, 2012 Quote"US 135" is crudely, a canopy from a US manufacturer - I gather they use similar method of measurement and so a PD 135 would be pretty much the same physcial size as an Aerodyne or Icarus 135. However a PdF 135 would have a physcial size that was slightly smaller. As PdF have pretty much given up sport parachuting sales it's not an issue that will be around for much longer. Blue skies Paul I've heart only about PIA and PD sizing method before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 0 #6 April 25, 2012 Quote Hi everyone, can someone tell me is it true that PdF Springos are sized one size smaller than PD canopies? Like, a 120ft Springo is equal to 107ft Stiletto? A friend of mine heard this, but I'm not really sure. Thanks. I very much doubt that: I've flown a springo 120 for a season and it flew the same size so to speak as sabre2 120, safire 2 119, etc. It also packs up the same size, if not bigger. The safire 1 119 I had was definitely smaller than "advertised" yes. But not PdF canopies. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Decodiver 0 #7 April 25, 2012 Quote As PdF have pretty much given up sport parachuting sales it's not an issue that will be around for much longer. Don't know where you got that from, they sell a huge amount of sport canopies in France and have recently brought out a new harness the Legend'R2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyingstrauss 0 #8 April 26, 2012 Ok, thanks for answers everybody. Saskia, I saw one of your posts somewhere in swooping and canopy control forum where you said that Springo collapses very easy in turbulence, can you descibe your experience please? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites dragon2 0 #9 April 26, 2012 Quote Saskia, I saw one of your posts somewhere in swooping and canopy control forum where you said that Springo collapses very easy in turbulence, can you descibe your experience please? Well, see above A little bit of turbulenc, such as encountered way behind trees, way way behind a tandemcanopy makes for a interesting ride/landing. If you've seen my other posts, there's a video in there somewhere where a guy with a springo lands ahead of me and the canopy just about half collapses, TWICE, before touchdown without incident. My Fusion 120 (or maybe it was my Pilot 124) OTOH had no major issues with the same turbulence neither did any of the other canopies that load. So for me, even when I was jumping a springo 120 for free, thanx but no thanx. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites flyingstrauss 0 #10 April 26, 2012 I'll take a look in your posts and video, thanks a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites riggerrob 558 #11 April 26, 2012 QuoteQuoteI was told that my Springo 140 was about the same size as a US 135. What is US 135? .......................................................................... US canopy manufacturers have used a bunch of different canopy-measuring methods over the years. Some measured fabric before it was sewn, etc. The two most popular methods were written by the Parachute Industry Association and Performance Designs. The PIA method was written by Para-Flite (back when they were the leading manufacturer of square canopies). The Pia method measures chord (in a straight line from the top leading edge to the trailing edge. PIA measures span - along the top skin - six inches back from the leading edge. Several other manufacturers (PISA, Icarus, etc.) used the PIA method. When Performance Designs started making tapered (aka. elliptical) canopies, they developed new measuring method. PD measures span across the bottom skin, ergo, a PD 210 canopy "flies" and packs about ten percent larger ...more like a 225 measured by the PIA method. To further confuse skydivers, some manufacturers changed from the PIA method to the PD method. e.g. Icarus changed from the PIA method to the PD method in 2001. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Join the conversation You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible. Reply to this topic... × Pasted as rich text. Paste as plain text instead Only 75 emoji are allowed. × Your link has been automatically embedded. 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ps5601 0 #2 April 24, 2012 I am sure that there are better people than me to answer this, but as I understand it PdF have a different way of measuring their canopies compared to the Americans. One measures the surface area (as best they can) and the other measures basically the shadow that is cast on the ground. Because the canopy is not a 2D object measuring direct surface area can be a problem. Anyway, this difference in method leads to PdF canopies being slightly smaller than US canopies for the same quoted size. At least this is as it was explained to me when I used to jump a Spingo. I don't know exactly how much smaller a PdF canopy would be compared to a same quoted size US canopy, but I doubt it would be a whole size smaller. I was told that my Springo 140 was about the same size as a US 135. Hope that helps Blue skies Paul Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #3 April 24, 2012 QuoteI was told that my Springo 140 was about the same size as a US 135. What is US 135? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ps5601 0 #4 April 25, 2012 "US 135" is crudely, a canopy from a US manufacturer - I gather they use similar method of measurement and so a PD 135 would be pretty much the same physcial size as an Aerodyne or Icarus 135. However a PdF 135 would have a physcial size that was slightly smaller. As PdF have pretty much given up sport parachuting sales it's not an issue that will be around for much longer. Blue skies Paul Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
phoenixlpr 0 #5 April 25, 2012 Quote"US 135" is crudely, a canopy from a US manufacturer - I gather they use similar method of measurement and so a PD 135 would be pretty much the same physcial size as an Aerodyne or Icarus 135. However a PdF 135 would have a physcial size that was slightly smaller. As PdF have pretty much given up sport parachuting sales it's not an issue that will be around for much longer. Blue skies Paul I've heart only about PIA and PD sizing method before. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #6 April 25, 2012 Quote Hi everyone, can someone tell me is it true that PdF Springos are sized one size smaller than PD canopies? Like, a 120ft Springo is equal to 107ft Stiletto? A friend of mine heard this, but I'm not really sure. Thanks. I very much doubt that: I've flown a springo 120 for a season and it flew the same size so to speak as sabre2 120, safire 2 119, etc. It also packs up the same size, if not bigger. The safire 1 119 I had was definitely smaller than "advertised" yes. But not PdF canopies. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Decodiver 0 #7 April 25, 2012 Quote As PdF have pretty much given up sport parachuting sales it's not an issue that will be around for much longer. Don't know where you got that from, they sell a huge amount of sport canopies in France and have recently brought out a new harness the Legend'R2. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingstrauss 0 #8 April 26, 2012 Ok, thanks for answers everybody. Saskia, I saw one of your posts somewhere in swooping and canopy control forum where you said that Springo collapses very easy in turbulence, can you descibe your experience please? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dragon2 0 #9 April 26, 2012 Quote Saskia, I saw one of your posts somewhere in swooping and canopy control forum where you said that Springo collapses very easy in turbulence, can you descibe your experience please? Well, see above A little bit of turbulenc, such as encountered way behind trees, way way behind a tandemcanopy makes for a interesting ride/landing. If you've seen my other posts, there's a video in there somewhere where a guy with a springo lands ahead of me and the canopy just about half collapses, TWICE, before touchdown without incident. My Fusion 120 (or maybe it was my Pilot 124) OTOH had no major issues with the same turbulence neither did any of the other canopies that load. So for me, even when I was jumping a springo 120 for free, thanx but no thanx. ciel bleu, Saskia Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
flyingstrauss 0 #10 April 26, 2012 I'll take a look in your posts and video, thanks a lot. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #11 April 26, 2012 QuoteQuoteI was told that my Springo 140 was about the same size as a US 135. What is US 135? .......................................................................... US canopy manufacturers have used a bunch of different canopy-measuring methods over the years. Some measured fabric before it was sewn, etc. The two most popular methods were written by the Parachute Industry Association and Performance Designs. The PIA method was written by Para-Flite (back when they were the leading manufacturer of square canopies). The Pia method measures chord (in a straight line from the top leading edge to the trailing edge. PIA measures span - along the top skin - six inches back from the leading edge. Several other manufacturers (PISA, Icarus, etc.) used the PIA method. When Performance Designs started making tapered (aka. elliptical) canopies, they developed new measuring method. PD measures span across the bottom skin, ergo, a PD 210 canopy "flies" and packs about ten percent larger ...more like a 225 measured by the PIA method. To further confuse skydivers, some manufacturers changed from the PIA method to the PD method. e.g. Icarus changed from the PIA method to the PD method in 2001. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
