fcajump 153 #26 March 26, 2012 Quote Quote Quote If I "really" needed it, I would give everything that I have and go out and borrow more, if necessary! Since none of use have that opportunity, I would pay what ever the free market would charge for an electronic piece of equipment that is meant to open my reserve, if I'm not able or haven't opened my parachute above ~1,000 feet. An AAD does not open your reserve************I'm sure that you don't mean to, but with respect, playing with words (cut a closing loop better!) seems to occupy the time of many on this forum and does nothing to promote safety. Would you prefer that no one use an AAD? Sparky I am 100% FOR the use of AAD's. HOWEVER, I am also 100% in favor of knowledgable rig owners too. No BS. MOST no-pull accidents could be saved if an AAD was properly installed, maintained, turned on and calibrated for any landing zone altitude differential. BUT, they have their functional limitations and are not able to do anything more than they are designed to do... They do NOT open the canopy, launch the pilot 'chute or even open the container. If all goes well, they cut the closing loop. After that, all the same variables come into play as if you had successfully pulled the ripcord (more or less). Know your gear! (and get, install, learn, use an AAD.) JWAlways remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
danornan 64 #27 March 26, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote If I "really" needed it, I would give everything that I have and go out and borrow more, if necessary! Since none of use have that opportunity, I would pay what ever the free market would charge for an electronic piece of equipment that is meant to open my reserve, if I'm not able or haven't opened my parachute above ~1,000 feet. An AAD does not open your reserve************I'm sure that you don't mean to, but with respect, playing with words (cut a closing loop better!) seems to occupy the time of many on this forum and does nothing to promote safety. Would you prefer that no one use an AAD? Sparky I am 100% FOR the use of AAD's. HOWEVER, I am also 100% in favor of knowledgable rig owners too. No BS. MOST no-pull accidents could be saved if an AAD was properly installed, maintained, turned on and calibrated for any landing zone altitude differential. BUT, they have their functional limitations and are not able to do anything more than they are designed to do... They do NOT open the canopy, launch the pilot 'chute or even open the container. If all goes well, they cut the closing loop. After that, all the same variables come into play as if you had successfully pulled the ripcord (more or less). Know your gear! (and get, install, learn, use an AAD.) JW JW - You are jumping to conclusions. I know that it only cuts the closing loop. When someone says that it opens their reserve, MOST people understand what is said and what is happening. Lighten up Francis!!!!Dano Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
fcajump 153 #28 March 26, 2012 Quote Quote Quote Quote Quote If I "really" needed it, I would give everything that I have and go out and borrow more, if necessary! Since none of use have that opportunity, I would pay what ever the free market would charge for an electronic piece of equipment that is meant to open my reserve, if I'm not able or haven't opened my parachute above ~1,000 feet. An AAD does not open your reserve************I'm sure that you don't mean to, but with respect, playing with words (cut a closing loop better!) seems to occupy the time of many on this forum and does nothing to promote safety. Would you prefer that no one use an AAD? Sparky I am 100% FOR the use of AAD's. HOWEVER, I am also 100% in favor of knowledgable rig owners too. No BS. MOST no-pull accidents could be saved if an AAD was properly installed, maintained, turned on and calibrated for any landing zone altitude differential. BUT, they have their functional limitations and are not able to do anything more than they are designed to do... They do NOT open the canopy, launch the pilot 'chute or even open the container. If all goes well, they cut the closing loop. After that, all the same variables come into play as if you had successfully pulled the ripcord (more or less). Know your gear! (and get, install, learn, use an AAD.) JW JW - You are jumping to conclusions. I know that it only cuts the closing loop. When someone says that it opens their reserve, MOST people understand what is said and what is happening. Lighten up Francis!!!! Dano, Sorry... should have added the note that by your comments, it is obvious that you know how they work... unfortunately too many people believe that an AAD opens the parachute (not understanding how or its limitations). My attempt at a point (and I believe it was Sparky's as well) is that phrasing things accurately is important in educating (and reminding) newer jumpers. We have entirely too many folks that don't understand their gear and limitations. No offense intended.JW PS - to all - if you think skydivers are ignorant in how their gear works, you should talk to pilots about their emergency parachutes... talk about wildly misinformed... Always remember that some clouds are harder than others... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RiggerLee 61 #29 March 26, 2012 Over the years there have been a number of incidents and accedents, more word play, in which people have learned the very signifigant diffrence between a device which opens your reserve and one which cuts the loop holding it. It's not a trivial destinction. It's the diffrence between makeing a guy buy a case of beer and going to his funeral. You may not be aware of it but all the manufacorers have been strugelling to make these devices work reliably in there containers. Even relatively small changes in flap construction or scaleing in the container can lead to hesitations or even the locking of the container. It's not your fault. They have done a very good job of concealling these issues from you. For the most part it's not something that most skydivers need to worry about but it explaines why many of the people on here are focased on that issue. As to AAD's I've never gotten around to getting one. I did a lot of crw. On the occasions when I was doing something really weird, and yes I've done some weird things on occasion, I borrowed a rig with one installed. So I can't say that I'm opposed to them But they are what they are. A fact that has been frogoten in the several generations of propaganda/hype surrounding them. That's why I have to call bullshit on the airbag anallagy. Air bags are not a bad thing but they are not magic as you describe. And there are plenty of flaws in AAD's. They may or may not work and under some cercumstances they can kill your ass. And as to the cost of the system... I could argue that my life and frankly the lives of most people are worth less then $10,000. Unless they are a DA, public figure, or protected witness you can have them killed for less. It probbable varyes across the country but here in Texas perticuerly down closser to the border the going rate for a adverage person is a lot lower. LeeLee [email protected] www.velocitysportswear.com Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Arvoitus 1 #30 March 27, 2012 Something isn't worth the money it costs to destroy it. If my neighbor buys a fancy new car and pays 50k$, just because I can buy a gallon of petrol for 10$ to torch that card doesn't mean that the car is worth 10$. In the same way just because you can pay a crack/methhead 10k$ to off just about any average person, doesn't mean that that is what that persons life is worth.Your rights end where my feelings begin. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Nealeod 0 #31 March 27, 2012 Quote Quote I would pay more than the current price of $1500. Throughout the lifespan of an AAD, thats only .34 cents a day. If I had to put a value of my life on paper, its more than the price of any AAD. Let's say that someone invents a magic safety device for automobiles, say, something that would envelope your entire body in a giant airbag inside an eggshell, and retract all protruding objects like the steering wheel, and it would do all this in a fraction of a second just an instant before an impending impact with an object. It's so effective that it will save your life and prevent serious injuries in any crash under 60 mph. The only problem is that it costs $10,000 to install. So, are you going to quit driving until you can afford to have this magic crash system installed in your car? Or, because of the cost, are you going to go ahead and continue to drive, knowing that 40,000 people per year die in traffic accidents, and assume the risk of driving as you are without it? After all, during the 6-year lifespan of that car, that's only $4.50 per day. Isn't your life worth $4.50? And what about all the people who can't afford that kind of expenditure, because they just don't have that amount of disposable income - should they be called "foolhardy" for not buying one of these magic safety devices? We all accept a certain level of risk. When we can no longer find the reward over risk in any given situation, rational people stop such actions. Your limit may be higher or lower than mine and frankly I don’t care. I see my Cypres as last chance scenario (to cut my closing loop) when for some unknown reason I cannot pull for myself. We have had a mid-air collision recently, and if said diver had an AAD in his backup rig, he may still be here today. I got it, I’m a new jumper and don’t know anything. Just got my B license this month, still practice my EPs up to altitude, still pull at or above 4K, practice all my canopy drills after every opening and still fly a canopy >200 Sqft. I consider my Cypres2 to be seatbelt, ejection seat or whatever you want to associate it as. I fully understand its capabilities and limitations and am probably one of the few who actually read the instruction manual from cover to cover a few times. (Hopefully not the case) To answer your question, if my AAD failed on the ground or was stolen no I wouldn’t jump or drive your proverbial car. Yes my life is worth $4.50 per day, isn’t yours? If you or someone else cannot afford an AAD you have go back to the top of my thread and determine what level of risk you can accept. I would not call anyone “foolhardy” for not buying your “magic safety device”. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
popsjumper 2 #32 March 27, 2012 Quote Am I the only one who finds the options in the Poll funny? There is no option for less than current pricing. The second range is $1399. The third range is $999. The fourth range is $1. It's a market study. He's trying to see how much he can jack up his prices and still stay in business. My reality and yours are quite different. I think we're all Bozos on this bus. Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Unstable 8 #33 March 27, 2012 I'm also seeing a trend now that more and more DZ are Requiring AAD's. In my next of the woods, 2 of the 4 DZ's in driving distance require them. At many of our home DZ's, folks may pay a lot more for one because it's a requirement to get in the plane. I play the "If I owned a DZ" game in my head, and I don't think I would require them myself....=========Shaun ========== Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-ftp- 0 #34 April 5, 2012 Quote I play the "If I owned a DZ" game in my head, and I don't think I would require them myself.... Why do you think they are requiring them? Think about it please. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
shropshire 0 #35 April 5, 2012 Quote I think I would pay several times what it is worth as far as market value goes. What say you? WTF would you do that? They are way too expensive already and I'm forced to have one at many DZs that I like to jump at (.)Y(.) Chivalry is not dead; it only sleeps for want of work to do. - Jerome K Jerome Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
