skymedic 0 #26 May 16, 2003 Ron explain to me how a Xfire is dangerous? show me proof? other than what you have "heard".....Reflex as dangerous? please...the Grommet issue was a problem all manufactures have had...unless there is some other reason it is dangerous??? and proof would be nice before you go labeling things dangerous. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #27 May 16, 2003 QuoteRon explain to me how a Xfire is dangerous? show me proof? How about a recall because some were collapsing in turbulance? That enough for ya? Look up Lisa Gallagher's accident at the ranch. QuoteReflex as dangerous? please...the Grommet issue was a problem all manufactures have had...unless there is some other reason it is dangerous??? and proof would be nice before you go labeling things dangerous. How about several riggers don't like them...and some WILL NOT pack them? Reason enough for me. AND IF YOU READ THE WHOLE SENTANCE...It said * Gear that was dangerous, OR NEVER LIVED UP TO THE HYPE* And why did you never reply to my reply about the PM you sent me? I would really like to know."No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #28 May 16, 2003 >How about several riggers don't like them...and some WILL NOT > pack them? I know riggers who don't like Mirages (closing loop can damage the reserve and all that) and who won't repack Racers. Nothing wrong with that, but not an indication of fundamental problems with either of them. >Reason enough for me. AND IF YOU READ THE WHOLE SENTANCE...It >said * Gear that was dangerous, OR NEVER LIVED UP TO THE HYPE* The reflex catapult system has five saves on it so far i.e. horseshoe reserve entanglements that cleared quickly, which is what the catapult is designed to do. So I'd say it lived up to the hype five times at least. It won't always do that; it's just one feature of the rig that might improve your odds a bit under certain situations. If people don't like it, that's fine - it's TSOed for use without the catapult. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #29 May 16, 2003 QuoteThe reflex catapult system has five saves on it so far i.e. horseshoe reserve entanglements that cleared quickly, Can you attribute the saves to the system? Or was it the freebag? Please educate me. If it is the better system show me proof that it was the "catapult" what saved these 5....I will gladly eat my words. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #30 May 16, 2003 I know all about Lisa's unfortunate incident at the Ranch at the PSN 2001. there were rotors coming off of the tree's. to blame it on the canopy is crap. I hate to say it but any canopy could of and probably would of folded in those same conditions. once again...you have not provided proof as to what is fundamentaly wrong with it. they issued a recall to change trim only on the models made by precision...why is that?...the NZ/Spain made ones were not effected. as far as the reflex...I know far more riggers that refuse to pack mirages and racers than the reflex with catapult or without it. once again. where is the proof that there is something wrong with the system other than you know riggers that wont pack them. Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #31 May 16, 2003 Quoteas far as the reflex...I know far more riggers that refuse to pack mirages and racers than the reflex with catapult or without it. OK, I'll drop the reflex....I know riggers that I trust that will not touch them...And that is enough for me to not jump one. Quoteyou have not provided proof as to what is fundamentaly wrong with it. they issued a recall to change trim only on the models made by precision...why is that?...the NZ/Spain made ones were not effected. Now where did I say they were all crap?....Nope All I said was never be the first on the block with a new toy. The fact That they recalled them is proof of what I said. I never said that the company was shit...I never said that they are junk....I just said that A LOT of people were unhappy to own them. I don't care where they were made...They had a problem. If I had one of them I would be upset. And you still never did answer my PM. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,396 #32 May 16, 2003 >Can you attribute the saves to the system? Or was it the freebag? Unfortunately I can no longer give details; the website that contained the reports is long gone. If memory serves, in two of those cases the jumper was stable, had a reserve horseshoe with the reserve PC, and something extracted the freebag from their backs. It _might_ have been just the bridle drag, but during tests by both Fliteline and someone else (Relative Workshop?) even the wide reserve bridle isn't usually sufficient to extract the freebag, depending on canopy size/weight/fit. So I'd say it was likely that the catapult had a role in clearing those mals. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
CRWBUDDHA 0 #33 May 16, 2003 Well now then, It seems that once again, marketing and opinions as well as testimonials have entered the realm of reasonable question and the pool of knowledge is cloudy. Technically, an AAD will only release the pin or pins that hold your emergency canopy in place within your container. The older styles actually pulled or pushed the pin from the closing loop. The newer styles cut the special loop supplied by their makers. Whether the AAD does what anyone expects on any given chance of circumstances, can never be a certainty as there is no technology that has that ability. If you are really interested about the risk factor, and how it may or not affect you and your family, you may very well entertain the following query.... A very famous British Philosopher once stated , "How many lifeboats are you going to put in your lifeboats?" I would suggest that you consider what's really important to you and do what you need to do to achieve that end. A discussion about anyones personal views on AAD's will only serve to cloud issues of a general nature and probably have nothing to do with those personal issues of importance to you. Contact the makers directly and inquire about their products from an ethical and a technical view point........Get educated to the hilt perhaps then you will have gained the insight you lack thus far to make your decision. Until that time when your decision is final, I hope that you donot fall prey to the falacies of instant gratification and you actually go out and gather facts that you have identified, as important to you.. Perhaps then, you might become a mentor to those around you to help them through a similar delima. Cheers and continued learning along your quest for knowledge....... CRWBUDDHA Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Skymonkey13 0 #34 May 16, 2003 Do you wear a seat belt when driving your car? I have been jumping for 11 years. I used to have a old Sentinal until it got so old that my rigger said there was more of a chance of a mis-fire than it was worth. He did'nt want to re-pack my reserve with the Sentinal on there. So i took it off and jumped about 3 years without a AAD. Last year at Rantoul i was kicked in the face (i was wearing a helmut) on a group exit from the C-130 and knocked out. I came to in time to pull low. Now i own a Cypres. i'm not embarressed by jumping with one. I'd rather be a live scardy cat than a dead macho man. I'm not saying your a scardy cat or that your trying to be a macho man, but you get the idea. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
rmsmith 1 #35 May 17, 2003 QuoteIf memory serves, in two of those cases the jumper was stable, had a reserve horseshoe with the reserve PC, and something extracted the freebag from their backs. It _might_ have been just the bridle drag, but during tests by both Fliteline and someone else (Relative Workshop?) even the wide reserve bridle isn't usually sufficient to extract the freebag, depending on canopy size/weight/fit. You don't have alzheimer's disease yet, Bill. Bill Booth said somewhere here in these groups that the wide bride was not enough to lift a loaded free bag through deployment, the result of many drop tests. I kind of liked the look of the dual pilot chute system myself, but it was never an option on the Racer, so I've never had one. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
corso 0 #36 May 17, 2003 If money isnt an issue then what have you got to lose? If you feel like the experience isnt as pure with it than without it then sell it, they dont really depreciate that much in a short space of time, and who knows you may be able to allow an inexperienced skydiver who really wants one to have one in their rig. I personally always jump with one and i dont think it detracts from the experience, once i switch it on i never think about it again. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
ralu 0 #37 May 17, 2003 Do what you feel is right. Deep down you already know the answer. If you feel that now it's not the moment, don't buy it, but keep it in mind and when you feel that you need it, buy it!!! My advice: buy it! ralu what would be a woman without her dreams.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #38 May 17, 2003 Yikes! A horseshoe on a reserve......that's a scary thought...... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MC208B 0 #39 May 17, 2003 Hi Ron, I wasn't aware of any big problems with an Astra (which is what I have). I know the FXC12000 were a toss of the dice as to problems. If you have any info on why Astra's should have been on your list, let me know where I can read about them. Thanks, Mike Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
RevJim 0 #40 May 17, 2003 QuoteQuoteA new AAD on the market. No maintenence. No max life. Looks alot like a CYPRES, and the price, well, check it out. Free cutter replacement after a save too. _ The only thing I will say about this is....Never be the first kid on the block with a new toy....You will live longer that way. Crossfire Nova Reflex Micro Raven Astra I am sure there are MANY more examples of gear that was dangerous, or just never lived up to the hype. Ron Ron, I have read this over and over. It seems as though the others have ripped your comment apart enough, but I'll go back to the original intent. I have confidence in being able to pull for myself. Sure, maybe someday I'll get an AAD, maybe not. As far as being the first with a new toy, so what? Who had the first CYPRES? The first Sabre? The first VX? Not everything is gloom and doom. This particular item is supposed to save me if I happen to not do the one thing that will save my life-pull. If it doesn't do its' job, oh well. Something obviously went wrong, either in the air or in my head, and would be dead without it anyway. Worst case in that aspect, my family is about a grand poorer than had I not bought it. Either way, I'm not here to bitch about it, but I'm sure the rest of you will be.It's your life, live it! Karma RB#684 "Corcho", ASK#60, Muff#3520, NCB#398, NHDZ#4, C-33989, DG#1 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Quincy 0 #41 May 18, 2003 The answer is really very simple...buy it. I've read this thread, and countless others, and too many people say they don't need one, because THEY are careful, and THEY have all the skills necessary to survive. Quite simply total BS...!!!... Case in point. I was front float of three on the outside of an Otter with two inside to do a 5-way, with a sixth flying video. Nice exit for us on the outside. Pull the fourth in for a 4 way. All of a sudden, I get pile driven buy someone from above and behind me. The guy to my left, who didn't get hit, said he could feel the smash as I fell out of formation. He said he was sure he was going to have to dive on me and toss me because I should have been unconscious from the hit. I did gray out for a bit. Cleared enough to track out and toss, but, lined up on the wrong end of the airport to land. Couldn't figure out why all the other canopies were landing in the wrong place. The point should be clear, you can be doing everything EXACTLY correctly, but, there IS someone else in the air who may not, and YOU could be the recipient of their mistakes. Bottom line, BUY IT...!!!... Quincy C-32880 Coach Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #42 May 19, 2003 QuoteHi Ron, I wasn't aware of any big problems with an Astra (which is what I have). I know the FXC12000 were a toss of the dice as to problems. If you have any info on why Astra's should have been on your list, let me know where I can read about them. Thanks, Mike Mike, Never said there was a Problem with the Astra...But it did not live up to the hype that it had when it came out. It was going to be the NEW HOT AAD....It never really made it big. I know a good # of people that bought an Astra...then sold it and got a CYPRES. Like I said not a problem product...but never lived up to the inital hype. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Ron 7 #43 May 19, 2003 QuoteAs far as being the first with a new toy, so what? Who had the first CYPRES? The first Sabre? The first VX? Not everything is gloom and doom Well if your brand new canopy kills you on final....That would suck... Ask someone you know and trust about the NOVA. QuoteIf it doesn't do its' job, oh well. Something obviously went wrong, either in the air or in my head, and would be dead without it anyway. Worst case in that aspect, my family is about a grand poorer than had I not bought it. Or it could fire early...and kill you and me. Maybe fire as you float, and take out an aircraft. Ron"No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms." -- Thomas Jefferson, Thomas Jefferson Papers, 334 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
skymedic 0 #44 May 22, 2003 QuoteOr it could fire early...and kill you and me. Maybe fire as you float, and take out an aircraft. Cypres misfire also...although not at the rate it seems the Astra has in the past.... Marc otherwise known as Mr.Fallinwoman.... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jeremyneas 0 #45 May 22, 2003 >You know what? If you claim to have almost 2000 jumps . . . Please take personal attacks to PM's. This forum is for discussion of just about any issue, and skydiving issues are especially pertinent. Attacking people for asking questions is completely counter to the reason this website was created in the first place. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
