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virgin-burner

banner / "eel"-jumps and setups

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i've watched this video

burningsky has a "how to" here: http://burningsky.org/index.php?topic=583.0

but honestly, i think it's terribly unsafe, and to boot, fucking stupid. i mean who the hell wants to connect parts of the main, be it risers or slider, to parts of your body; even after it's open. it would be different if there was some sort of cutaway-system integrated, but just "carabiner" it onto your dive-loop and your foot.. i cringe at the thought. would probably make for a nice landing if the banner snags something on the ground or some clown thinks it would be fun to step on it..

has anyone experience with long banners, i mean in the 60-70ft range, under canopy!? i dont think you'll need to put weights on it.. i'm basically shopping for ideas..
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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I agree, I really don't like the idea of two carabiners. We have a small American flag that we use for demos. The top end connects to a rear riser with a cheap key-ring "carabiner", which is orders of magnitude weaker than a real carabiner or snap link. The bottom end is a bungee loop that slips loosely over the jumper's shoe. It is easy to kick off, and in the worst case you can kick the entire shoe off.

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couldn't see the video yesterday, but it sure looks nice :)everything is doable, just a question of cost... In our beautiful country we are talking 15-20 CHF per linear metre
for example here you can get 10$/yard
http://www.seattlefabrics.com/nylons.html#1.1%20oz%20RS0
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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yea, i wrote an email to paratec, they offer f-111 for like 13 euros and zero-p for almost 16 per meter, but they're 160cm wide..

if i'm gonna make one i want it to be durable, so ripstop-nylon is probably the best bet.

so, since i dont like the attachment to risers.. best bet would be to make a loop for arm and foot each. should have a cutaway for the arm at least since you're gonna stick most of that limb through it, foot would be easier to get rid off.

OR, attach it to the riser anyway and install some sort of RSL to it!? that should work, no!? i'm sure i havent thought of some possible scenarios..
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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another thought that crossed my mind, with all the extra drag added, if i'd got with 70ft long, i wont hang underneath the canopy horizontal!? as funny as that would look like.. B|

i'm still trying to figure out an RSL-option to install on the dive-loop; anybody has a suggestion for that?

it would be nice if it released automatically in case of a cutaway, but i cant come up with a solution that is also dealing with the drag.

and to complicate things even more, i dont want to do too much in-air rigging.

the idea is to carry it in a container, jump out, deploy the canopy and then to hook up the banner in a safe way.

or just attach it to the dive-loop!? if you have to cutaway, the banner would be gone with the canopy!
nope, there's still the snag-hazerd on either other jumpers or on landing.. grrr!!!

am i overthinking this? i just dont like the solution in my original post much..

guys, give me suggestions! :)
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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why not on a quick release from the hip ring to the ankle



that's a good idea!

the materials available seem to be in the 100-120cm range, some even 160cm's.. anybody has an idea on how tension influences the "looks" of the banner, or wouldnt it be affected much!?

another idea would be a 3-ring-release-kinda-system maybe..
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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why not on a quick release from the hip ring to the ankle



That's usually not 'tall' enough to get it to fly right.

I wouldn't ever attach anything to the main either, for a couple of reasons...

~if it snags on anything/anyone, you have the banner steering the parachute, and if by some odd chance you need to chop the main with the banner already attached ...it isn't going far with the other end around your foot.

I have a d ring on the MLW, I run a line to that D ring up over my shoulder to the top of the banner. The other end is on a foot loop...on both sides where the banner hooks to the strap or the loop I use a heavy rubber-band in the 'link' ... it will break if I snag anything.










~ If you choke a Smurf, what color does it turn? ~

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so what you say is, there needs to be tension on the banner to make it fly right!?

is 70ft (20 meters) doable!?

what about the material, what will make a nicer effect, something really light like zero-p or something heavier/sturder like nylon-ripstop? or cotton or what should i look at!?
“Some may never live, but the crazy never die.”
-Hunter S. Thompson
"No. Try not. Do... or do not. There is no try."
-Yoda

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I jumped an "Eel" banner setup a couple times. It was about 70 ft. long. The banner was made of some super lightweight material that was very porous and silklike. Even at 70 ft. you could hardly feel it once it was flying and it had no real noticeable effects on flying the canopy.

It was hooked up with two of the cheap keychain carabiners. One went to the risers and one to your foot. The carabiners were hooked to the banner with a rubber band each. The idea being that they're cheap breakable rubber bands and would break if the banner snagged or you had to suddenly cut away or something. The guy who built the setup said he had seen that breakaway system work on an eel jump previously.

I'm not a big fan of hooking things to my risers, but I think there were enough fail points in the system that it was pretty safe. Be much better to not have anything on your risers though.

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I have made several "eel" jumps using some of the original ones belonging to Safety Guru Bryan Burke of Skydive AZ.

The eels are 60 feet in length and are attached to a suspension line and your shoe. (note: Do NOT attach the eel to your steering line, think about it) Attachment is done with two carabiners after opening. There are 120 foot eels out there.

I was also concerned with being attached to my main canopy but during the pre-jump briefing we discussed the various malfunction possibilities and the need for kicking off the shoe prior to releasing the main, if necessary.

Another safety issue is maintaining clear airspace. Bryan's suggestion is to keep a minimum 2 eel length separation between any canopy and an eel.

As you can see in the pictures, attached below, the eel flies at an upward angle behind the pilot. (note: I have never flown an eel at a wingloading greater than 1.27:1 and have no idea how higher wingloading would effect flight angle)

No weight is necessary unless you have only one attachment point, as the leading edge is held taunt. As with any flag, banner, eel, etc, having decent accuracy skill is very important to prevent a snag on landing.

Bryan Burke occasionally posts in this forum and may chime in. He is very experienced in eels and all things safety.

Edited to add: The material in these eels is kite material and was available in 60 foot max lengths, hence the 60 foot design.
Blue Skies, Soft Docks and Happy Landings!
CWR #23
(It's called CRW, add an e if you like, but I ain't calling it CFS. FU FAI!)

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I've made a few eels and done 50-60 eel jumps, including some CRW eel jumps, at Burning Man and elsewhere (I'm in the video above). It is certainly "fucking stupid", but so are a lot of things I do, and I think it's no more dangerous than certain disciplines of skydiving. If you're not comfortable with it, don't do it.

But it is really cool.
http://i.imgur.com/a3IuL.jpg

If you do want to make and/or jump an eel, here are some general comments:

Attachment: As mentioned above, some people use rubber bands with the intent of them breaking, other people do all sorts of stuff. Personally, I use snagless carabiners, connecting the top to a front riser loop, and the bottom to a pull-up cord tied into my laces. I keep that shoe a bit loose so I can easily kick it off. Although I haven't had to chop on an eel jump, I think I would be able to easily. It's worth noting that you only deploy the eel after your canopy is all sorted, so the odds of having to chop are a lot lower.

Flight: Attaching to one front riser and one shoe hardly puts any "turn" on you at all, even on ellipticals at WLs of 1.4+. The drag is noticeable but not bad--it is advisable to use at least double fronts on landing, or else you might find yourself with a lot less flare power than you want, depending on the canopy. The eel won't hit the ground before you unless it's very heavy fabric, so you don't really have to worry about it snagging or someone stepping on it. Using an aggressive landing will help that even more.

Here's a dim and dusty landing photo for example:
http://i.imgur.com/dVdvF.jpg

Airspace/Deployment The person you are the most at risk of wrapping is yourself. I prefer to deploy from a leg-mounted container, so that the eel always stays to the side and never comes directly in front of me. Some people use chest-mounted containers and are just careful to keep it always to one side. Obviously, you don't want to fly directly in front of someone else if you're flying an eel, and don't be an idiot in the pattern.

Fabric: I've used 0.7oz "ZP" from kitebuilder.com, 1.1oz ZP and F111, and this cheap "polyester silk stuff":
http://bandshoppe.com/catalog/productDetail.do?p=Poly_China_Silk_Flag_Fabric

ZP works but it has disadvantages: it's expensive and it is incredibly loud. My favorite by far is the polyester silk: it is cheap, quiet (you can talk to your comrade in a 2-stack), a bit lower drag, and packs up small. I have a 4' x 60' eel made out of that stuff that will pack up to about the size of a super burrito. I think some of the colors come in 25yd lengths, so you can make an eel with as little sewing as possible if that's your style. I haven't abused the polyester silk a lot, so I don't know it will hold up compared to ZP, but it seems good so far.

Construction: Can be as simple or as complex as you want. At the very least, put a double-fold hem on every edge (otherwise it will fray like crazy!). Ideally, use french seams for any internal seams. Reinforce the leading edge and the corners especially. For colors, go high-contrast: a solid light blue eel will be pretty boring for anyone watching from 4,000 feet away.

Best of luck, and enjoy Burning Man.

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I made my eel a few years ago with the intent of going to Burning Man. I still haven't made it there.

My eel is 5'x60' long, made of .7oz Kite Fabric and was made with some info from Bryan Burke. I have enough fabric to make a second one, but I haven't yet. It's a big project, especially with the color fade on mine. Lots of sewing.

I tend to put the top karabiner on the middle of my collapsed slider to distribute the drag evenly to all 4 risers. Loose shoelaces on my rightfoot, and I made a chest-mount container that is about 6"x8" by 3" thick.

I've done about 10 jumps with mine, including DEMO jumps into some tight areas. It is a crowd pleaser. People talk about it specifically for months after. It is what they remember - it has way more visual impact than a regular skydiver. The other DEMO jumpers (some with 30 years of DEMO experience) love it and want one too!

I jump it with a Lotus 120 at about a 1.4 wingloading, and have no issues with the drag it produces or flaring my canopy.

If you need any other info, let me know...
CSPA D-1046 TI Coach2 RiggerA JM SSI SSE GCI EJR Canadian 102-way record holder
bard.ca

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Hey dick,
Im pretty sure that video was not intended as an instruction tool. I never saw how they connected to their feet. I use a bungie that slips on and off easily. I use a carabiner up top. Ive also heard of people rigging with rubber bands so theyll snap if it gets hung up.

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