KILL THE COWS!!!! (more steak for all of us...temporarily)

[cgross 1]

So, those damn cows are creating 20% of the worlds greenhouse gases... What are we going to do about that?

http://www.cnn.com/2003/TECH/science/06/13/offbeat.cow.breath.ap/index.html

[Laurel 0]

I think the gases that are emmitted by all the skydivers on the plane are contributing more to the breakdown of the ozone layer than the cows.

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PMS#28, Pelogrande Rodriguez#1074
My Pink M

[cgross 1]

Right on... we should all wear butt-plugs on jump run. You know what is worse is that us jumpers are up it altitude... it takes less time for it to effect the OZone layer. It could take weeks to get cows bredth to 15Kft!!!

[MattM 0]

"The reason we're focusing on methane is because it's a short-lived, highly potent greenhouse gas that needs to be reduced"

very true

Matt

[PhillyKev 0]

Quote

Right on... we should all wear butt-plugs on jump run.

You mean you don't?

[SpeedRacer 1]

I understand the greenhouse gas thing: methane is a greenhouse gas.

But WTF is this crap about the ozone layer??? Could someone please explain to me what substances are present in cow's breath or flatulance that could cause depletion of the ozone layer????

How do you get free radical chlorides or flourides or bromide from cow's breath/farts? Could someone please explain this to me??

edited to add: I think the global warming issue and the ozone depletion issue are kind of like Saddam Hussein and Osama bin Laden: There's a lot of dumb people out there that think they're the same thing.

Speed Racer
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[hookitt 0]

It couldn't possibly have anything to do with all the cows that are grazing on the part of the Rainforest that's been clear cut?

Cows produce one third of the atmospheric methane pollution and are responsible for the companies need to kill rain forest Clearing not only reduces nature capacity to produce oxygen it adds green house gases to the atmosphere. As much as 1/4 of carbon dioxide now is in the air was released when it rains and when the forest's are burned.

Naahh... Couldn't have a thing to do with it.

My grammar sometimes resembles that of magnetic refrigerator poetry... Ghetto

[cgross 1]

In my atmosheric meteorology class I learned how methane was converted with NOx and SOx to deplete ozone, but i don't recall the process.... I will investigate.

[cgross 1]

Here is one little blurb I found... Nothing about Nitrogen or sulfur though... guess i was wrong.


-Ozone thinning can occur when increased emissions of methane get transformed into water in the stratosphere. At high altitudes, water vapor can be broken down into molecules that destroy ozone.-

[cgross 1]

Here's some more!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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Drew Shindell, an atmospheric scientist from NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) and Columbia University, N.Y., finds that greenhouse gases like methane and carbon dioxide are changing the climate in many ways. Some of those effects include water vapor increases and temperature changes in the upper atmosphere, which may delay future ozone recovery over heavily populated areas.

Scientists have expected the ozone layer to recover as a result of international agreements to ban CFCs that destroy ozone. CFCs, once used in cooling systems and aerosols, can last for decades in the upper atmosphere, where they break down, react with ozone, and destroy it. They remain the major cause of present-day ozone depletion.

"It's hard to tell if those great international agreements [to ban CFCs] work if we don't understand the other big things that are going on in the stratosphere, such as increases in greenhouse gases and water vapor," Shindell said. The stratosphere is a dry atmospheric layer between 6 and 30 miles (9.7 and 48.3 kilometers) up where most ozone exists.

Ozone shields the planet's surface from the Sun's harmful ultraviolet radiation and makes life on Earth possible. The study examined the ozone layer over heavily populated areas around the equator and mid-latitudes where ozone thinning occurs, excluding the Polar regions, where 'ozone holes' form.

Ozone thinning can occur when increased emissions of methane get transformed into water in the stratosphere. At high altitudes, water vapor can be broken down into molecules that destroy ozone.

Also, methane and carbon dioxide change our climate by trapping heat in the atmosphere before it can escape out to space. This greenhouse effect, much like the inside of a car with all the windows closed, heats the air within the lowest layer of the atmosphere, called the troposphere. Warming in the troposphere can alter atmospheric circulation and make the air wetter, since warmer air holds more water. Though complex and not well understood, there is evidence that water vapor can get wafted from the troposphere into the stratosphere by shifting air currents caused by climate change.

Climate change from greenhouse gases can also affect ozone by heating the lower stratosphere where most of the ozone exists. When the lower stratosphere heats, chemical reactions speed up, and ozone gets depleted.

The chemical and atmospheric processes in the lower stratosphere are complex, quite variable, and not well understood. Shindell focused his study largely on the upper stratosphere where processes are simpler and better understood, and then used those findings to make inferences about ozone in the lower stratosphere.

Computer model simulations were used to separate the different factors that contribute to ozone changes. According to the models, which contain some uncertainty, ozone levels are expected to reach their lowest point in recorded history by around 2006. Scientists hope that by banning CFCs, ozone will eventually return to healthier levels, like those that existed prior to 1979.

One simulation isolated the impacts of CFCs on ozone, and showed that as CFCs decline, by the year 2040 overall ozone makes close to a full recovery from current low levels. When CFCs, water vapor and temperature changes were all combined in a computer model, by 2040, overall ozone levels recovered only slightly from their current low point.

These computer simulations suggest that climate change from greenhouse gases may greatly slow any anticipated ozone recovery. Shindell said the effects of climate change need to be better accounted for as scientists and others try to track the success of international agreements, like the 1987 Montreal Protocol that banned CFCs.

The paper appears in the latest issue of the Journal of Geophysical Research - Atmospheres.

The study was supported by NASA's Atmospheric Chemistry Modeling and Analysis Program, and a NASA Earth Observing System postdoctoral Fellowship. Some of the data used was obtained from the NASA Langley Research Center's EOSDIS Distributed Active Archive Center.

[SpeedRacer 1]

hmmm, but its only indirect. The methane doesn't actually deplete the ozone layer. But global warming can lower the rate at which new ozone is formed.

in any case the EPA has listed methane as NON-Ozone depleting.

Here's stuff about ozone: it's actually O3...Three oxygen atoms bound together- a highly unstable configuration. Ozone is what they're measuring when they have smog alerts. Ozone can scar your lungs.
High levels of atmospheric hydrocarbons plus high heat and UV light can catalyze the formation of ozone from oxygen (which is normally O2). So that's why they tell you to stay indoors on hot smoggy days.

What happens indoors is that the air has to pass thru screens, fans, or air conditioners. Ozone is highly unstable and can be catalyzed back into normal O2 by contact with damn near anything. So by the time the air gets into your house the ozone is greatly depleted.

Speed Racer
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[cgross 1]

the same arguement could be made then that you don't need to stay indoors, because O3 will convert to O2 before hitting your blood stream.

FYI holes in ozone at the poles are a naturally occuring phenom which scientist discoverd years ago.

It has to do with the polar vortex and not man. At the southpole in the winter, since there is no heat or UV (no sun) Normal unstable O3 coverts to O2, without the UV no new O3 can be produced.

[SpeedRacer 1]

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the same arguement could be made then that you don't need to stay indoors, because O3 will convert to O2 before hitting your blood stream.

mmmm...no. The problem isn't O3 getting into your bloodstream (it doesn't). Problem with O3 is when it first contacts something, such as the cells of your bronchi when you breathe it in. Yes it changes back into O2 but in the process you temporarily have free radical O atoms that can scar lung tissue & increase the chance of getting lung cancer.

The other stuff you said is interesting though. You bring up a good point: We don't have enough satellite data going back far enough to really know what normal Ozone layer fluctuations have been thru the years.

But we are definitely now seeing a whole lot more skin cancer than we used to. Fortunately it is now curable, usually.

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[FallRate 0]

So what we're saying here is that it was a good, enviro-conscious act to desimate the buffalo populations in North America? (I imagine they fart about as often as cows.) So this is one less thing to feel guilty about...cool.

FallRate