ive heard zpx doesnt last as long - anyone heard about this

[jojames 0]

im trying to decide on a zpx wing and another brand that doesnt use zpx. a rigger warned me about the zpx material breaking down alot quicker than normal. is this true. has anyone any experience with this. i know its early days with zpx so there wont be many zpx related stories regarding its longevity. but if anyone has any feed back about the canopies it would be much appreciated. basically it was mentioned the zpx was falling apart much quicker than other material.

[LDiCosimo 0]

http://www.flyaerodyne.com/zpx.asp

I haven't really seen much abou longevity. They do advertize a higher strength than standard ZP. IS your rigger also your dealer? How does he feel about Aerodyne in general? And does he have any specific examples to back up his claim?

ETA: Aerodyne also makes all of their main canopies in standard ZP as well.

[sundevil777 93]

I have over 100 jumps on my Pilot 210 ZPX and all is great with it so far. Aerodyne has shown test data that its tensile strength is the same as regular ZP, tear strength is better than regular ZP, and its strength after abuse is better.

They recently withdrew the option for ZPX on the sensei canopy. Bill Legard, president of Aerodyne, contacted me to discuss this at length following a previous thread:

http://www.dropzone.com/cgi-bin/forum/gforum.cgi?post=3869869;search_string=zpx;#3869869

Bill was very forthcoming about the new material. I expect that anyone that wanted to contact him would have no trouble getting their questions answered. It would be best if he would post in threads such as this, for the benefit of so many potential customers.

Bill said the ZPX material is more elastic, especially in the 'bias' direction, and that was the reason for it being withdrawn from the sensei. Some people were having issues with their canopy at high loadings not performing as expected. Bill also said that he continues to jump his ZPX sensei at an extremely high wingload and he does not see a performance problem (he had a lot of jumps on it but I can't remember how many).

As far as long term durability issues, as I said in the earlier thread:

Quote

From a design engineer's perspective, I don't think there is much reason for concern. I believe the material mfg is independent of Aerodyne, and I think that the material design engineers know very well the appropriate performance parameters and how to confirm that the short and long term results are good. The performance and durability summary that Aerodyne sent me showed that the new material was tougher and more durable than the standard ZP stuff. Is there some reason to distrust the integrity of the material mfg?

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[jojames 0]

the rigger had a canopy that was in very bad shape for the number of jumps.

he is neutral in his opinions for all canopies and always provides non biased views. he's always been helpful and reliable in his advice. im keen on the zpx for the smaller pack volume and it suits my current skill level

[sundevil777 93]

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the rigger had a canopy that was in very bad shape for the number of jumps.

he is neutral in his opinions for all canopies and always provides non biased views. he's always been helpful and reliable in his advice. im keen on the zpx for the smaller pack volume and it suits my current skill level

It is interesting to hear of such instances, but of course many things can wear out a canopy. The thread I linked earlier had some anecdotal evidence to say that ZPX durability was good, and some that it was bad. I would like to believe that Aerodyne put sufficient jumps on test canopies to confirm the suitability of the material (along with testing that the material mfg would have done). Also, It seems that some (not saying your rigger is one of them) have a poor opinion of the material, and spread that opinion, based solely on rumor.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[Trae 1]

in reply to "I would like to believe that Aerodyne put sufficient jumps on test canopies to confirm the suitability of the material (along with testing that the material mfg would have done)."
.....................................

A wise old skydiver once said to me, "If you're an early adopter in this sport, you're a test pilot."

Haven't proved him wrong yet.

[LDiCosimo 0]

Quote

the rigger had a canopy that was in very bad shape for the number of jumps.

he is neutral in his opinions for all canopies and always provides non biased views. he's always been helpful and reliable in his advice. im keen on the zpx for the smaller pack volume and it suits my current skill level

Had to ask.
I looked at your profile it doesn;t have a location listed. What type of climate do you (and presumably your rigger) jump in? That may have something to do with your rigger's experiences with it.

[jojames 0]

hot and humid conditions where we jump.

i agree that it would be harsh to judge the canopy on one isolated case and agree it could have been badly treated.

the more info i gather is helpful tho before i cough up the money for a new canopy.

your advice is appreciated

cheers

[davelepka 4]

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hot and humid conditions where we jump

Humid means you're not in the desert. Canopies that live in Eloy, or other dry dusty environments will show wear MUCH faster than places without the sand and dust. Some people feel that if a canopy has 'X' number of jumps in a desert that it's close to twice the wear of the same number of jumps at a more canopy-friendly DZ.

[barbs666 0]

Ah crap,
I ordered a new 168' Pilot ZPX and will be jumping it in Dubai (desert). So now I will have to take extra special attention to the wear?
I think it should be fine as they would not place a canopy fabric out into the market with unsubstantiated claims and poor performance characteristics! A sure fire way to go broke. So chances are the canopy will be fine and live up to its expectations.

Ps - It also gets humid in the desert! Just depends on the time of year.

Wings container; Main: 168' ZPX Pilot; Reserve: Smart 160'; Cypres 2;

[LDiCosimo 0]

The desert wears on gear no matter what the fabric. This is the only case of quick wearing ZPX I have seen after doing a lot of looking around before buying my Pilot this past summer.

[phoenixlpr 0]

Please let us know what you can do against the fine grain of sand grinding the textiles of your gear.

[Fledgling 0]

Quote

the rigger had a canopy that was in very bad shape for the number of jumps.

he is neutral in his opinions for all canopies and always provides non biased views. he's always been helpful and reliable in his advice. im keen on the zpx for the smaller pack volume and it suits my current skill level

I have personally witnessed a 2 Senseis exhibiting excessive wear in 400 jumps. The wear was apparent in the usual locations but of an ammount you would expect on a much older canopy. Aerodyne replaced said canopy for the customer and the new canopy faired only slightly better showing much of the same wear again inside of 400 jumps. Jumps were in a cool climate, on a grass landing area with indoor packing.
No experience with the Pilot but it seems like a pretty popular canopy so if there is a problem with ZPX Pilots you should be able to get an answer either way.

[freakyrat 1]

There are ZPX Pilots out there with over a thousand jumps on them with no problems. The problems they had with the heavily loaded Sensei canopies were the deformation of the material in the rib areas. The material basically stretches in all axiises as opposed to regular ZP. This is something you would not see in a Pilot canopy as it is not normally flown in that kind of flight envelope. Your best advice would be to talk to Bill Legard at the factory about it if you have any concerns. I'm presently flying a medium loaded ZPX Pilot 140 for wing suit flying but I don't have that many jumps on the canopy and it's fine so far. The openings are very good on this canopy for wing suit flying with no drama.

[sundevil777 93]

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Please let us know what you can do against the fine grain of sand grinding the textiles of your gear.

A person can do things to reduce their canopy picking up as much sand as it otherwise might.

People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

[bodypilot90 0]

I'm trying to decide zpx pilot vs pulse. was told by chuting start to avoid zpx. Mike has to have a reason.

[chutingstar 1]

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I'm trying to decide zpx pilot vs pulse. was told by chuting start to avoid zpx. Mike has to have a reason.

Well damn...can't remember the specific conversation on this, but had someone point this thread out to me and that I should give my thoughts on this...so here ya go:

I don't think I've ever told anyone to avoid ZPX altogether. I know I've had conversations with jumpers that it's not worth the extra expense unless you absolutely need to get this canopy to fit into a container made for a smaller size. I don't see ZPX as a better or worse fabric that ZP...just not worth the extra money. The only real downside is that it hasn't been used in skydiving for the 20+ years that ZP has...so we don't have a track record as far as any wear/use/deterioration issues of ZPX as compared to ZP.

But ZPX isn't a fabric you just shouldn't outrigtht buy...nothing has shown that yet...and hopefully it won't. But for most jumpers, I recommend saving the $200 and sticking with ZP.

Mike

ChutingStar.com

[bodypilot90 0]

thanks Mike. I guess I misunderstood, thanks for the update!

[jojames 0]

just a note regarding previous comments re hot dry weather will kill a canopy much quicker.

ive been paragliding for a while and there is a theory amongst paraglider pilots that the exact opposite is the case. hot humid conditions kill a canopy quicker than dry conditions.
ive heard many times that a canopy flown on the coast ( and this could be due to the salt air) are usually in worse condition than the ones flown inland. dubai in that case with lots of salt air on the coast isnt so good. why are the paraglider guys saying moisture is bad and the skydivers say dry air is bad. i personally have packed a paraglider after a day of flying on the coast and felt my wing was very moist and leaving it packed this way for another week couldnt be good.

im confused. paraglider guys tend to loose pack or pack there stuff in bigger bags to air out the canopy after a day of flying near moist air on the coast... why such varying opinions ????

[bodypilot90 0]

Landing in sandy areas the canopy picks up sand that wears on canopy as well as packing area. A friend got back from a boogie out west and the amount of sand was more than we ever see here in Florida, unless you land on the beach

[freakyrat 1]

Mike, Thanks for the update. In my case I needed a hassle free canopy for my wingsuit skydives. I also needed a bigger sized canopy than I was jumping to also fit in my Mirage MO container. I had experience flying a small Pilot and ordered a 140 ZPX Pilot. Actually I had a MT sized Mirage with a Katana 120 in it. I demoed a Pilot ZPX 140 in this container but my own 140 wouldn't fit no matter how hard I tried to get it into the bag. Aaron at Mirage fixed me up with an MO Mirage with all the wingsuit mod's and I couldn't be happier. The 140 ZPX fits great in this container. It opens beautifully and flies and lands great. For me the fabric was worth the extra money for my present set up. If I might add something else. I'm presently flying a Tonysuit's RBird wing suit and started out flying a P2. My RBird has that extra fabric back of the bottom of the container. Either I'm learning how to fly better at opening or it's a combination of the suit and the Mirage and Pilot but my openings when flying the RBird have been slower and gentler without any radical body movements. Just No Drama.

[Trae 1]

in reply to "ive heard many times that a canopy flown on the coast ( and this could be due to the salt air) are usually in worse condition than the ones flown inland."
......................................

On a salt water coast the moisture in the air can have a salt content. If this salty moisture gets in/on your gear, when it dries it leaves salt crystals. These salt crystals can then damage/cut fibres. Lines as well as fabric are susceptible to this type of damage.

moral of this story is don't buy a second hand rig/canopy that has been extensively hero jumped onto beaches near salty coasts.