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nigel99

No 'window' on bridle?

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I am slightly concerned that my new gear doesn't have the traditional 'window' near the closing pin. I have run my fingers all along the bridle in that region and there is definitely nothing there it is not just that the markings have worn off.

If there another way that you can be certain the pilot chute is cocked? I can't think of how else you would know on a gear check?

By the way it is definitely a kill line pilot chute and the container is a Teardrop SF.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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If there another way that you can be certain the pilot chute is cocked? I can't think of how else you would know on a gear check?
.

:o:o:o do you actually only go "by the window" ?
Throw your PC in the air, pull on the bridle. If the PC flies/pulls, then it should be OK. It it falls/doesn't pull then you need to take action.
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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My PC gets several checks that don’t include the window. First I cock it at the start of the pack job and drop it to the floor to watch it inflate as it falls. Last thing I do as I’m closing the container – the PC is still across the other side of the room, D bag is in the container and I’m kneeling by the rig – I yank the bridle to bring the PC back towards me and see it inflate as it comes across the room.

You could also look down inside the PC if you like and check that the kill line is longer than the apex tape if you wanted to before you pack it.

I sure it wouldn’t be beyond the appropriate grade of rigger to put a window in the bridle for you if you wanted one. Wouldn’t imagine it’ll cost more than a couple of quid on top of your next repack.

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You can check like the others said by seeing if it inflates which I personally like and feel is better since you get real confirmation from the pilot chute. I you really want a visual you can also colour the kill line where it comes out of the bridle and up to the apex of the pilot chute. This way when you cock it you can see it is done fully. Once it is packed it would be a little harder to see but real confirmation is better than a window in my opinion.

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Oh, and come to Empuria and stop at Colin's loft, you will get your trip worth on gear information :)
He is my favorite source of "live" info on gear. Even before being a rigger, just stopping by to say hello cost me a minimum of an hour, and brought me lightyears of knowledge :)
scissors beat paper, paper beat rock, rock beat wingsuit - KarlM

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If there another way that you can be certain the pilot chute is cocked? I can't think of how else you would know on a gear check?
.

:o:o:o do you actually only go "by the window" ?
Throw your PC in the air, pull on the bridle. If the PC flies/pulls, then it should be OK. It it falls/doesn't pull then you need to take action.



Of course I check for inflation[:/] But the window allows a visual check with the PC stowed completely and the rig completely packed. I am used to checking that as part of my final pin check on rental gear.

Yes I am working on going to Empu for next weekend. I used to jump with Colin back in the day when he was in Zim.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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If there another way that you can be certain the pilot chute is cocked? I can't think of how else you would know on a gear check?
.

:o:o:o do you actually only go "by the window" ?
Throw your PC in the air, pull on the bridle. If the PC flies/pulls, then it should be OK. It it falls/doesn't pull then you need to take action.



All well and good until it's packed up (by packer maybe) and somebody does a pin check for you.

No indication of collapsible or non...so the checker assumes non...ooooooops, the packer didn't cock it or something else happened.

"no shit....there I was...."
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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The "gold standard" of determining if your PC is fully cocked, is to put your foot on the bag, pull tension on the bridle, and simultaneously hold the canopy part of the PC up to the light and be sure the litttle tapes that hold the center down is taught and the kill line itself is slack. I think I just saw a picture of that in Parachutist Magazine. The next task (of a continuing nature), is to make sure, during packing that the kill line doesn't inadvertantly retract. Or , if you already have the canopy in the bag, to do the same thing. If the tapes that hold the center of the PC canopy are loose, and the kill line is tight, then it is NOT cocked. Having it catch air and stuff is not fool proof. Neither is a mark on the kill line completely fool proof, as the kill line, being made of Spectra, can shrink a little bit with heat=repeated use. If the colored mark is in the right spot, and if you occasionally check to make sure the mark showing results in the kill line being loose, you are good to go. I use the mark and check it occ to make sure it indicates what it is supposed to indicate. Your bridle apparently doesn't have a window, so you'll have to rely on the "tapes are tight and killl line is loose" check.

If you have one of those "wrinkle" bridles: (my term), that wrinkles the lower part of the bridle- the part still in the bag, then it is really difficult to make sure that during the packing it doesn't "unwrinkle", thereby producing a partial uncocking; but, gotta do that, or you will be partially uncocked, every time..

OK I just grabbed the December Parachutiist. Look at the photo on page 72. They call the little tapes "limiter tapes" See how they are tight, and the kill line is loose? That's the gold standard. Without a window, on your bridle, you'll have to use this picture as a guide. It only takes a second to do this on each pack job. If you don't, you won't be sure.

I use the mark and check it occ to make sure it indicates what it is supposed to indicate, but then, I have a window on my bridle.

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"All well and good until it's packed up (by packer maybe) and somebody does a pin check for you.

No indication of collapsible or non...so the checker assumes non...ooooooops, the packer didn't cock it or something else happened.

"no shit....there I was...."

to the OP. I do not have any window but I only pack for myself - so I know it is done. However, if you use a packer cock the PC when you drop off. Then it gets done twice (or if he/she overlooked, once).

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Brand new gear or just new to you? If brand new get the manufacturer to send you a correct bridle. Have you called them?

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I am slightly concerned that my new gear doesn't have the traditional 'window' near the closing pin. I have run my fingers all along the bridle in that region and there is definitely nothing there it is not just that the markings have worn off.

If there another way that you can be certain the pilot chute is cocked? I can't think of how else you would know on a gear check?

By the way it is definitely a kill line pilot chute and the container is a Teardrop SF.

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. Having it catch air and stuff is not fool proof. Neither is a mark on the kill line completely fool proof,

OK I just grabbed the December Parachutiist. Look at the photo on page 72. They call the little tapes "limiter tapes" See how they are tight, and the kill line is loose? That's the gold standard.



abso-fuckin-lutely.

That is all you need to know

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Brand new gear or just new to you? If brand new get the manufacturer to send you a correct bridle. Have you called them?

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I am slightly concerned that my new gear doesn't have the traditional 'window' near the closing pin. I have run my fingers all along the bridle in that region and there is definitely nothing there it is not just that the markings have worn off.

If there another way that you can be certain the pilot chute is cocked? I can't think of how else you would know on a gear check?

By the way it is definitely a kill line pilot chute and the container is a Teardrop SF.



New to me. It took me by surprise that the window was not standard. Popsjumper summed up my concerns pretty well.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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The "gold standard" of determining if your PC is fully cocked, is to put your foot on the bag, pull tension on the bridle, and simultaneously hold the canopy part of the PC up to the light and be sure the litttle tapes that hold the center down is taught and the kill line itself is slack. I think I just saw a picture of that in Parachutist Magazine. The next task (of a continuing nature), is to make sure, during packing that the kill line doesn't inadvertantly retract. Or , if you already have the canopy in the bag, to do the same thing. If the tapes that hold the center of the PC canopy are loose, and the kill line is tight, then it is NOT cocked. Having it catch air and stuff is not fool proof. Neither is a mark on the kill line completely fool proof, as the kill line, being made of Spectra, can shrink a little bit with heat=repeated use. If the colored mark is in the right spot, and if you occasionally check to make sure the mark showing results in the kill line being loose, you are good to go. I use the mark and check it occ to make sure it indicates what it is supposed to indicate. Your bridle apparently doesn't have a window, so you'll have to rely on the "tapes are tight and killl line is loose" check.

If you have one of those "wrinkle" bridles: (my term), that wrinkles the lower part of the bridle- the part still in the bag, then it is really difficult to make sure that during the packing it doesn't "unwrinkle", thereby producing a partial uncocking; but, gotta do that, or you will be partially uncocked, every time..

OK I just grabbed the December Parachutiist. Look at the photo on page 72. They call the little tapes "limiter tapes" See how they are tight, and the kill line is loose? That's the gold standard. Without a window, on your bridle, you'll have to use this picture as a guide. It only takes a second to do this on each pack job. If you don't, you won't be sure.

I use the mark and check it occ to make sure it indicates what it is supposed to indicate, but then, I have a window on my bridle.



Thanks for the detail. I hear what all of you are saying and to be honest the lack of the window will inspire me to be more paranoid/diligent than normal.

However I am not comfortable with this aspect of my gear and in due course will replace it. 2 other aspects I don't like are velcro toggles and not having hard inserts in my risers. It won't stop me jumping my gear though.
Experienced jumper - someone who has made mistakes more often than I have and lived.

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2 other aspects I don't like are velcro toggles and not having hard inserts in my risers. It won't stop me jumping my gear though.



Both of those can be fixed with a new set of risers. ;)
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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The kill line bridal is not an especially complex piece of gear. My guess is you or a rigger could easily add a window and mark the kill line in the correct spot.

Un-stitch the 2cm of stitching on the bridal where the window should go, cut the desired side of the window in half. Fold the two 1cm pieces back up and down the bridal, respectively, and sew them there. Then possibly add 10cm of binding tape to the opposite side as the window to maintain the strength of the bridal. Now you have a window.

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. Having it catch air and stuff is not fool proof. Neither is a mark on the kill line completely fool proof,

OK I just grabbed the December Parachutiist. Look at the photo on page 72. They call the little tapes "limiter tapes" See how they are tight, and the kill line is loose? That's the gold standard.



abso-fuckin-lutely.

That is all you need to know



Careful there. Other youngsters are reading here. If you are thinking in terms of "all I need to know", I'd suggest you change that mindset.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Haha! Ok - fair point, let be much more specific:

If the tapes are tight and the kill-line is loose then the PC is totally cocked.



..provided it is made correctly and not modified from that configuration.
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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Haha! Ok - fair point, let be much more specific:

If the tapes are tight and the kill-line is loose then the PC is totally cocked.



..provided it is made correctly and not modified from that configuration.



If the tapes are tight, then surely it is definitely as fully cocked as it can be?

Admittedly, it may not collapse as it does not check the integrity of the kill-line.

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Haha! Ok - fair point, let be much more specific:

If the tapes are tight and the kill-line is loose then the PC is totally cocked.



..provided it is made correctly and not modified from that configuration.



If the tapes are tight, then surely it is definitely as fully cocked as it can be?

Admittedly, it may not collapse as it does not check the integrity of the kill-line.



What if the tapes are shorter than they should be? :P
"I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly
DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890
I'm an asshole, and I approve this message

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Nigel. Solve the problem. Get a new PC. Order it from C-star and I'll pay for it...you pay the shipping. Simple as that. Your comfort level, and safety, is more important than the price of a new PC.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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