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Conquest150

Wind gust limitation

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I have driven an hour and a half to the DZ on more than one occasion, only to find winds over 15 and turn around and head back home.



why not call ahead to check conditions before driving out to the DZ? you'd save on gas which could = more $ for jumps.

my limit's 15 mph.



Wind can change substantially in 2 hours, esp in coastal areas.

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i was just wondering if there are any dropzones out there who have or plan on implementing some sort of wind gust limitation. I would just like to know what peoples thoughts are on jumping in gusty winds and what your normal cutoff is. I know i personally dont care to jump in winds when the gust spread gets up over 8 knots. Thanks for all your input, it is greatly appreciated



When the winds pick up, the staff keeps a regular update written on the board to show everyone the time, and the wind strength (ground winds).

I go by the windsock and "feel", and also watch what's happening with the other canopies as they're coming down. When it hits 18-20, I stop regardless if it's gusting, or steady. An exception would be if the gusts are very infrequent.

What amazes me is how many people don't pay attention to the winds aloft...

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As far as student (and sometimes rental gear) wind limits, I've usually seen dropzones use the peak gust over the last 5 minutes as the determining number. I spent a hell of a lot of time in Marina, CA as a student watching the wind meter to see if I'd get to jump that day. I'd get excited as it dropped to below 14 for a few minutes but then it'd pick up again and I'd sit around and not jump all day.

Using the peak gust makes sense because you could get unlucky and be landing and backing up during the gust. I've also seen students have to ride the plane down because the wind picked up during the climb to altitude.

When I BASE jump in gusty winds, I usually try to time my exit during a lull. Sometimes you get unlucky and the winds pick up right after you jump, but if it's too windy for you, you shouldn't be jumping anyway. You also don't know if it's going to stay lulled for a while, or just gust back up again so it's hard to guess when you should exit.

In aviation, there is a rule of thumb that a final approach should be made faster by 1/2 the gust factor. If the winds were 15 gusting to 25, and you're flying a 172 and normally do 60 knots on final, you would increase your approach speed to 60 + (25-15)/2 = 65 knots. This is so you keep enough airspeed above the stall speed if the winds suddenly drop. It seems to me that a similar argument could be made about staying in full flight or doing a high speed approach during a ram-air parachute landing.

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Perris will impose a wind hold on students and unlicensed jumpers at 15 mph. If it's not too bad, they'll usually still get loads of licensed jumpers up on weekends. But some of those desert winds can really howl and on weekdays there aren't so many jumpers around. If it's windy enough or there aren't enough people willing to fill the plane, they'll shut it down and wait for things to improve. Occasionally it will get so windy they'll just shut down and everybody heads home, or else to the Tunnel or the Bombshelter.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

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Were you there on Superbowl Sunday?? I didn't even realize thats what day it was, but ended up in the Bombshelter because the winds were ridiculous!! I remember walking out to the Otter and a huge gust of wind came out of nowhere and just stayed there. They shut us down for the day when it hung around.

My personal limits are about 16-19MPH, only because I jump at Perris and have spent a LOT of time grounded as a student.
Someday Never Comes

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Sorry I can't help you with actual numbers but for me it's the seeing and the feeling. I'm seeing gusts, I feel them and I don't jump when it appears to me that it has a good chance of hurting me. The speed of the gusts is not in my mental calculations, while the probability of it getting worse by landing time is.

Borderline? Never when it was slightly on the NO side of the border. I have jumped when the feeling was solid borderline with a strong motivation behind me. I usually regret it after the jump.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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I know this is an old thread and everything, but I've got a question about judging the strength of wind gusts. My DZ doesn't use a wind meter any more, and I have a hard time judging wind speed just by looking at the wind sock. There are a few small trees close to the beer line as well as banana plants. No matter how many people's opinions I ask about wind speed or gust speed, I don't get the same answer twice.

Maybe I should buy a portable wind meter??
Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

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I know this is an old thread and everything, but I've got a question about judging the strength of wind gusts. My DZ doesn't use a wind meter any more, and I have a hard time judging wind speed just by looking at the wind sock. There are a few small trees close to the beer line as well as banana plants. No matter how many people's opinions I ask about wind speed or gust speed, I don't get the same answer twice.

Maybe I should buy a portable wind meter??





Are they disagreeing about the exact number, or disagreeing about if the current conditions are jumpable or not? I know I could not stand outside and put a number on the winds, but I can stand out there and decide if it's something I feel comfortable jumping in or not. I wouldn't be too concerned with the lack of a wind meter as an experienced jumper. However, if I were jumping with a student I'd either want a wind meter or would be a little extra conservative to make sure I wasn't exceeding student wind limits.

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I use the Old-Jumper-Wind-O-Meter.

Simply, watch what all the old, un-broken, jumpers are doing. When they are lined up watching everybody else land, with smiles on their faces, don't jump.

This meter is free. No purch necessary.
-Rainier

Sparks Brother #1 // "I vaguely heard someone yell "wait!" but by that point i was out the door." Quote from dz.com somewhere

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that meter isn't as good for determining if the rather steady, but highish winds are too much for canopy penetration, esp at a place like Byron where everyone is used to higher winds, and most of them have at least a slightly higher WL than I.

I've determined that around 22-23 I won't move forward, so I don't like seeing the peaks in the 24-26 range. The handhelds don't allow for getting that information, and I wonder about their accuracy in general.

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I use the Old-Jumper-Wind-O-Meter.

Simply, watch what all the old, un-broken, jumpers are doing. When they are lined up watching everybody else land, with smiles on their faces, don't jump.

This meter is free. No purch necessary.



I like this method. You go up and ask one of the older jumpers what he thinks about the wind. My DZ is so small that if it's too gusty or whatever the plane just doesn't go up.

-Michael

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Are they disagreeing about the exact number, or disagreeing about if the current conditions are jumpable or not? I know I could not stand outside and put a number on the winds, but I can stand out there and decide if it's something I feel comfortable jumping in or not. I wouldn't be too concerned with the lack of a wind meter as an experienced jumper. However, if I were jumping with a student I'd either want a wind meter or would be a little extra conservative to make sure I wasn't exceeding student wind limits.



It's the wind speed and gust speed that I can't get a consistent answer about. If I knew what those were, I could make up my own mind. But since there's no way of knowing for sure what the spread, or any other specific data, is, I'm constantly having to ask someone, "Should I be jumping, or not?"

[Someone reading this may say, "If you have to ask if you should be jumping, then you shouldn't be jumping." That may be true of some hot shot always-pushing-the-envelope type, but I doubt that principle would necessarily pertain to me, as I tend to be very conservative as a rule--- perhaps too much so in the sense of passing up perfectly decent opportunities to learn/jump just because it's slightly less than prime conditions.]

I guess maybe I should get a portable wind meter, but I'm sure gonna' feel like a geek carrying it out there to the landing area between loads. :S
Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

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I guess maybe I should get a portable wind meter, but I'm sure gonna' feel like a geek carrying it out there to the landing area between loads. :S



Don't you feel special because you skydive? You're unique, part of an elite group. You're participating in an extreme sport, going against the grain instead of conforming and following the norm. Most skydivers feel that way to some degree, don't we?

Why does that all change when we get to the DZ? Why do so many of us instantly turn into 8th graders, obsessed with "fitting in" and "being cool," totally paranoid about what everyone else thinks?

I suggest you go to one of those girly fashion stores at the mall and buy a small bag covered in neon blue fur to use as a carrying case for your wind meter. Wear it around your neck at all times when you are not jumping, and check the winds frequently. Remember, you might have to stand out there for a while to read the peak gusts. If someone laughs at you, who cares? You're a skydiver! You have blood of ice and nerves of steel! Enthusiastically give them some s**t right back!

And don't forget to feel completely vindicated when a student, instructor, or the most experienced jumper on the DZ comes up to you and asks you what the wind was doing the last time you checked.

BTW, I own a couple of wind meters and the Kestrel is my favorite. I don't have a good case for it, though, so let me know if you find a store that has those furry blue bags on sale.

- Scott

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It's the wind speed and gust speed that I can't get a consistent answer about. If I knew what those were, I could make up my own mind. But since there's no way of knowing for sure what the spread, or any other specific data, is, I'm constantly having to ask someone, "Should I be jumping, or not?"

:S



Are you saying that your DZ has no wind measuring equipment that you can read?

At my home dz we have an electronic wind meter with the spinning cups thing on the roof and the display at the manifest desk. It displays the current wind speed and the highest gust. The gust number is manually reset when we think it needs it.
Everybody can see the display whenever they want.

If your DZ doesn't have one, maybe you can get them interested in getting one.

(Of course, my home DZ is Bay Area Skydiving, Byron, CA, where we regularly experience significant winds. If your home dz doesn't have the wind problems that we have, it might not seem to them like they need such a system.)

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Don't you feel special because you skydive? You're unique, part of an elite group. You're participating in an extreme sport, going against the grain instead of conforming and following the norm. Most skydivers feel that way to some degree, don't we?



:S:S:S

Yup - then, except for a few real dorkwads, that feeling goes away after about 70 jumps and we realize it's just another sport we personally happen to love to do.

...
Driving is a one dimensional activity - a monkey can do it - being proud of your driving abilities is like being proud of being able to put on pants

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Don't you feel special because you skydive? You're unique, part of an elite group. You're participating in an extreme sport, going against the grain instead of conforming and following the norm. Most skydivers feel that way to some degree, don't we?



The pressure to conform exists at the macro and micro levels ...
"That looks dangerous." Leopold Stotch

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***

I guess maybe I should get a portable wind meter, but I'm sure gonna' feel like a geek carrying it out there to the landing area between loads. :S



You look even more of a geek being loaded into the ambulance. I've seen many skydivers use wind meters.

HOWEVER, my method is to go and stand out in the open away from the DZ buildings, trees, etc. and just ask myself "how do you feel about being 30'agl under canopy in this wind". If I don't feel good, I stay on the ground.

I also notice that at my home DZ, east winds are ALWAYS trickier than other directions due to the local topography, something the wind meter won't tell you.
...

The only sure way to survive a canopy collision is not to have one.

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Hi, Riggerpaul: The DZ had one, but it broke sometime last winter and they haven't repaired or replaced it. I personally don't like not having objective data on which to base my decisions about jumping, but I don't know... maybe this is supposed to be good for me. :S

When I asked about the wind meter, I got chewed out pretty good.

Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

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:)
Thanks, Scott, for a little perspective.

Actually, I'm already quite dorky/geeky-- a wind meter will just enhance my geekiness. I'll let you know if I find just the right kind of carrying case!

Do you like the wind meter which uses a probe, little fan blades, or anemometer cups?
Blue skies & happy jitters ~Mockingbird
"Why is there something rather than nothing?"

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:)
Thanks, Scott, for a little perspective.

Actually, I'm already quite dorky/geeky-- a wind meter will just enhance my geekiness. I'll let you know if I find just the right kind of carrying case!

Do you like the wind meter which uses a probe, little fan blades, or anemometer cups?



I use a basic Radio Shack model with some kind of solid-state sensor (I never checked out the specifics of the innards). Hanging it out of the car when driving showed it to be accurate enough for my needs. I don't tend to bring it along to the DZ, since I have a pretty good idea what the wind sock looks like when I stand down.

I have looked at the wind sock on the way to the aircraft and decided not to board so they would have a better climb rate without me. In all fairness I do have pretty good hospitalization insurance, and only one person on the load got an ambulance ride, so it was kind of wimpy on my part. Nevertheless, even the people that landed without getting hurt said "good call" when they got back.

I've been slammed by rotors a couple of times over the years, and I say to hell with it. Not everyone survives showing how cool they are, so I am comfortable with being a live geek.


Blue skies,

Winsor

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Do you like the wind meter which uses a probe, little fan blades, or anemometer cups?



The Kestrel wind meters are turbine-type (little fan blades). I've also used the cup-type. I've never played with one of the Radio Shack units that Winsor mentioned but they sound pretty interesting - especially if they work well and are reasonably priced.

All kidding aside, I don't see anything wrong with your desire to get your own wind meter and check the winds in the landing area, particularly since the DZ doesn't have one available. It can be a great learning tool, especially if you also pay attention to the other things people have mentioned like flags, windsocks, and trees, along with the feel and sound of the wind. Soon you'll be able to relate the effects of the wind to a certain wind speed you've measured on the meter, and probably won't need the meter as much. But everyone learns differently, and some people just want to see a number!

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