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Monsterchute

What makes you proud of the USA?

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Padilla's situation pissed/pisses me off. Others, I'm not so sure about, but am not too happy about it.

Bush is losing the support of a lot of his conservative base. ACTIVE support that is. However, I think he's still going to get re-elected because the left will run someone so despicable to conservatives they'll vote for Bush again to keep the Dem out of office.

:)
Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

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>However, I think he's still going to get re-elected because the left will
> run someone so despicable to conservatives they'll vote for Bush
>again to keep the Dem out of office.

Either that or they will be so desperate to pander to both sides they will nominate someone with no opinions, issues or objectives whatsoever, which would lead to the same result.

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This is true. If that were to happen, I wonder who it would be. Lieberman perhaps....if he recanted his 85 degree tilt to the left that he took when campaigning with the former Vice Prevaricator Algore.

A third party would be nice here. Perhaps my own Libertarian Party.
;)
Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

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The Bill of Rights is an enumeration of specific rights that are held by "the people" and is not an all inclusive list. The declaration of independence states "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."



Several of us seem to throw the unconstitutional word around a lot when referring to the detainees in GTMO. Have you ever read this:

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Amendment V

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a grand jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation



Notice it doesn't say "when serving in the US military only". It also says "in time of war or public danger". No war is required to be declared. The US government is considering members of terrorist organizations, like Al Quaida, to be members of a "land force". Since these "forces" are not considered legitimate forces, as recognized by the Geneva Convention, they also do not get the rights of the Geneva Convention.

Also, since the different rights are all included under one ammendment, the "military service" exemption is understood to apply to all of the rights. Therefore they do not have to get any of them including the "due process of law".

This is all according to the constitution guys.


"Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do." Ben Franklin

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Everybody has been going at it over this issue for awhile now. I think the only way to settle it, or at least attempt to settle it, is to have a face to face debate among all the dz.com'ers. We'll have to meet at some drop zone big enough for everybody, pass out large amounts of beer, and have at it over all the hotly debated issues. My suggestions for debate topics:

1) gun control - is it worthwhile or should the term just be used as a way to say you're hitting what you aim at?
2) is the US the best country in the world?
3) implants or real ones - what's best?
4) following # 3, how big is too big?
5) following # 4 - what uses can they be put to?
5) canopy nazi's - good or bad?
6) and finally, how the hell do so many of you post so much while having jobs?

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I know quite a few countries in this world where woman own houses, boats and have an education. Owning a 2003 car is no big deal, unless you live in Cambodia.



Oh I bow to your wonderful knowledge of what womens lives in the world are really like.

None of them have any issues whatsoever and can achieve all they can be....Maybe next lifetime you will get to make up for some of the karma of this lifetime. Good luck as a poor woman in Africa with your clitoris removed or as woman in most moslem countries, or as a woman in India whose babies die within the first few months of life, or .. never mind... you just dont get it anyway.

When the only women you see are the "hotties" in the clubs, or where ever you go to meet women.... that is not a very good sampling of the billions of women on this planet. I still would venture to say that womens lives are far better here with more opportunities than ANYWHERE else in the world.

Amazon



To make sure you know where I go to meet women - I usually take posiession of Naval Officer's wifes and their children - just a little habit of mine, one wife in particular, so I have no need to frequent the clubs you mentioned.

There are plenty of countries in this world where what you have is not something special. Pick a letter: Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, South Africa, Slovenia, even Slovakia and so on. That was just the letter S. There are 25 other letters in the alfabet and I bet you I can find a few countries for nearly each (we want to exclude our x y z's)

Of course if you want me to quote other cases except for Cambodia, there always is Ceylon, Chechnya, China, and many other letters of the alfabet, and I bet I can find a few countries for nearly each. What was your point?
jraf

Me Jungleman! Me have large Babalui.
Muff #3275

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Dammit! That's a good point. It's been at least a couple of years since I actually sat down and read the Constitution. Your post just inspired me - I might just do that.

Beers,

Vinny the Anvil
;)
Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

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I stand by my original opinion but I can only base what I have seen in the numerous countries I have ACTUALLY visited.


Clicky1

Clicky2

Just on the off chance you might give a shit..... but having read the stuff you put out about not giving a crap about political correctness or people in general... I doubt it. Its not political correctness to have a concern for human dignity.

I am sure there might be a few exceptions in any given country in the world and I have seen and met some of them. Some may have inherited or married into a position of privilege..some have earned thier positions thru hard work but I would venture to say they ARE the exception and certainly not the rule. I can remember certain countries where I could not drive.. and had to be escorted and driven to anyplace I wanted or needed to go and with a fairly strict code of what was acceptable to wear. You would not have had those same restrictions nor even be allowed into the same places.
Shall we suffice it to say you have your opinions based on what you would like to believe. I am sure you really believe that women worldwide have opportunities similar to what we have in this country... but even here that can be somewhat limited for many young women. As a man in any one of those countries you would not be allowed to see many things... if you even had the desire to really see things as they are. You seem to be taking a long trip on on a certain river of DeNial which is not just a river in Egypt and Sudan.

This country is a work in progress and I am proud and thankful to be here.... and thank the powers that be I am not in some of those places.
And since this started out as a " What makes you proud of the USA" thread..... I am proud to be in a country that does allow us to care what the plight of others is, after seeing some of the abuses in other places.

Amazon

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You ask me Why I Love Her?
Well, give me time and I'll explain.
Have you seen a Kansas sunset
Or an Arizona rain?
Have you drifted on a bayou
Down Louisiana way?
Have you watched a cold fog drifting
Over San Francisco Bay?
Have you heard a bobwhite calling
In the Carolina pines,
Or heard the bellow of a diesel
At the Appalachia mines?
Does the call of Niagara thrill you
When you hear her waters roar?
Do you look with awe and wonder
At her Massachusetts shore,
Where men who braved a hard new world
First stepped on Plymouth's rock?
And do you think of them when you stroll
Along a New York City dock?
Have you seen a snowflake drifting
In the Rockies, way up high?
Have you seen the sun come blazing down
From a bright Nevada sky?
Do you hail to the Columbia
As she rushes to the sea,
Or bow your head at Gettysburg
At our struggle to be free?
Have you seen the mighty Tetons?
Have you watched an eagle soar?
Have you seen the Mississippi
Roll along Missouri's shore?
Have you felt a chill at Michigan
When on a winter's day
Her waters rage along the shore
In thunderous display?
Does the word "Aloha" make you warm?
Do you stare in disbelief
When you see the surf
Come roaring in at Waimea Reef?
From Alaska's cold to the Everglades,
From the Rio Grande to Maine,
My heart cries out, my pulse runs fast
At the might of her domain.
You ask me Why I Love Her?
I've a million reasons why:
My Beautiful America,
Beneath God's wide, wide sky.

~ John Mitchum ~

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This question came to my mind lately, since it is a long time ago i was in the US the last time.
I would like to know what makes americans so proud of their country? Why are americans a lot more patriotic than most other countries?
I would be particularly interested in events you are proud of that happend in the last 50 or so years.


PS: This is not meant to be a provocative question, i am aware of a lot of things americans can be proud of.


What makes an American proud?

To you my friend, this is a very difficult question to answer, when someone’s point of view can be so easily be favorable, just because it is the place you were born, and that ego that everyone wants to feed, trying with pride to excel over any other culture, religion, political ideas.

I think the bottom line to your question is the amount of tolerance there is in any given country, and the very ideals of their existence. As I have already posted pn a prior occassion, is that if you look around in any given country’s history, you will not find such a long healthy continous democracy, although far from perfect, it has been the most endurable. Yes, granted, like anything man is controlling has committed abuses and grave mistakes, yet somehow the ideals that men are equal, and their inalienable rights to pursue happiness at their own free will has not been declared by any other nation that I know of, for over 224 years.

I am not saying that one nation is better than the other, but given the current world situation, and the sad differences that most extremist and barbaric states in the planet are concentrated in hate towards the USA, don’t seem to be looking at their inner self inflicted problems. One of the main reasons for this differences is that these states do not separate church from state, and embark in a very intolerant views of other religion, thus making enemies with basically all other religion different than theirs.

This could be solved with education. It is a very complicated world, that is thrusted into doom by the very fast and continuos growth of population and pollution. If we don’t embark in working together, then we will definitely be contemplating the end of the world as we know it, sooner than later.

As history is seen, democracy was first implemented by the greeks, yet it was not a true democracy for not all the adults and citizens were involved in electing the officials. But the fact is that most nations will overlook certain facts that I think would be great anchors for proudness of this nation, the first one is that it is the USA that thought of human rights and worked very hard to implement them, (just look at the declaration of indepence), again not without mistakes and grave errors, second, the red cross, was first established during the civil war, yet people will be jumping at this saying that is switzerland that created it, I would suggest that please read carefully and look for the very beginning of the idea of neutral hospitals in war zones. Then comes to my attention the league of nations, which was pushed by Woodrow Wilson, and the precursor of the United Nations as we know it today.

I must state the fact that I’m just a resident in this country, but I am proud of being part of this great nation, so much that I have swore an oath to defend and protect the constitution of the united states, regardless the danger that this may imply. And some times I am taken by the position of the older nations trying to treat us all from the americas as uncultured, yet they seem to forget centuries of slavery and squeezing of other cultures in the name of civility, also there are many of my fellow latin americans, that think that US citizens are just snobs, and self gratifying people, yet this is far from true, as in every other country, there are always good and bad people, yet look at the track record of this country sending aid, to other countries in need, yet when they get hit hard, who helps us? Name one single country that has given aid to the US when a huge storm hits, or when 9/11? I tell you how many ZERO.

Yet to all those nations that say are being invaded by the US, they supposedly invade, yet they help to rebuild the infraestructures, pave roads, etc, etc (afghanistan), as I said before everyone is far from perfect, and I’m basing my facts to what history tells me so clearly.

I’m am honored to be on duty call to preserve the very ideals of this great nation.

Blue skies!

Juan
"According to some of the conservatives here, it sounds like it's fine to beat your wide - as long as she had it coming." -Billvon

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Ok, you be proud of paying a lot of Money as a country, i will not be proud of what germany pays per inhabitant, (even though thats more than the average american) because it is lower that what the UN recomended. :)
I won't coment on your Liberia/Iraq complaint, because its just going to turn this into an endless discussion.

PM me or open a new thread, if you really want to discuss it.

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...... yet look at the track record of this country sending aid, to other countries in need, yet when they get hit hard, who helps us? Name one single country that has given aid to the US when a huge storm hits, or when 9/11? I tell you how many ZERO.



I am sorry but, when germany had massive floods last year nobody helped us. I would not have expected anybody to help us either, we even helped poland deal with those same floods. I think the only money we might have gotton was from the EU and thats basically money we had payed for catastrophies in other EU countries.

Would you have expected money for 9/11? Did we not imediately declare solidarity? Did we really do nothing and are we really doing nothing for operation enduring freedom or Afghanistan? Was there no investigation on 9/11 in germany? Who gave you massive support in the first gulf war, from what countries did a lot of the money for that war come from and in whos economy did it flow into? Did you really mean ZERO when you worte ZERO or did you mean it did not seem like much to you.
I know american media and politicians like to make you think your friends do not support you at all, but the only thing your friends opose is your Iraq war.

I agree with everything you wrote, but i had to comment on the part i quoted. The part i did not quote mostly regards to events that are the basics of the US, not specific events of the past 50 years.

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That doesn't say they should be denied access to an attorney or held indefinitely. It just says that they can be held without indictment from a grand jury. The exception does not apply to the deprivation of due process of law.

Quote

Also, since the different rights are all included under one ammendment, the "military service" exemption is understood to apply to all of the rights. Therefore they do not have to get any of them including the "due process of law".



So what if it's one amendment. Take a lok at the location of the semicolons and the order of the wording. The first phrase is being excepted, not everything that follows. If that were what was intended the exception would be at the end, not directly after the phrase that it is really being applied to.

Yes, the constitution is very convenient when used selectively. For instance, how is it that people's homes and cars can be seized and sold at auction according to drug forfeiture laws when this is part of the constitution:

nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation

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America: The Good Neighbor

Widespread but only partial news coverage was given recently to A remarkable editorial broadcast from Toronto by Gordon Sinclair, a Canadian television commentator. What follows is the full text of his trenchant remarks as printed in the Congressional Record:



"This Canadian thinks it is time to speak up for the Americans as the most generous and possibly the least appreciated people on all the earth. Germany, Japan and, to a lesser extent, Britain and Italy were lifted out of the debris of war by the Americans who poured in billions of dollars and forgave other billions in debts. None of these countries is today paying even the interest on its remaining debts to the United States. When France was in danger of collapsing in 1956, it was the Americans who propped it up, and their reward was to be insulted and swindled on the streets of Paris. I was there. I saw it.



When earthquakes hit distant cities, it is the United States that hurries in to help. This spring, 59 American communities were flattened by tornadoes. Nobody helped.



The Marshall Plan and the Truman Policy pumped billions of dollars into discouraged countries. Now newspapers in those countries are writing about the decadent, warmongering Americans.



I'd like to see just one of those countries that is gloating over the erosion of the United States dollar build its own airplane. Does any other country in the world have a plane to equal the Boeing Jumbo Jet, the Lockheed Tri-Star, or the Douglas DC10? If so, why don't they fly them? Why do all the International lines except Russia fly American Planes? Why does no other land on earth even consider putting a man or woman on

the moon?



You talk about Japanese technocracy, and you get radios.



You talk about German technocracy, and you get automobiles.



You talk about American technocracy, and you find men on the moon - not once, but several times - and safely home again.



You talk about scandals, and the Americans put theirs right in the store window for everybody to look at.



Even their draft-dodgers are not pursued and hounded. They are here on our streets, and most of them, unless they are breaking Canadian laws, are getting American dollars from ma and pa at home to spend here.

When the railways of France, Germany and India were breaking down through age, it was the Americans who rebuilt them. When the Pennsylvania Railroad and the New York Central went broke, nobody loaned them an old caboose.

Both are still broke.



I can name you 5000 times when the Americans raced to the help of other people in trouble. Can you name me even one time when someone else raced to the Americans in trouble? I don't think there was outside help even during the San Francisco earthquake.



Our neighbors have faced it alone, and I'm one Canadian who is damned tired of hearing them get kicked around. They will come out of this thing with their flag high. And when they do, they are entitled to thumb their nose at the lands that are gloating over their present troubles.

I hope Canada is not one of those."



Stand proud, America!

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You should read my other post where i replied to juanesky.

You (or Gordon Sinclair) should also read this, http://www.dgap.org/texte/marshallplan.html
or any other publication on the marschallplan, in regard to what country got how much what they made of it and demanded payback.

Interesting in regard to support of US lead war is this article.
http://www.kingcountyjournal.com/sited/story/html/124098

But you will find similar numbers if you take any other newspaper.

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.... some times I am taken by the position of the older nations trying to treat us all from the americas as uncultured,


Don't let nations that need regulations for Radiostations to play music in their mother tongue tell you that you are uncultured. :)
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..... yet look at the track record of this country sending aid, to other countries in need, yet when they get hit hard, who helps us? Name one single country that has given aid to the US when a huge storm hits, or when 9/11? I tell you how many ZERO.


http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/politics/speeches/100301.html

Defefinitely not ZERO only a month after 9/11.

Also the german Red Cross and sometimes THW (Technical help organisation) are at every Earthquake site all over the world, as soon as requested and help search for the buried.


blue skies

Monsterchute

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