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Monsterchute

What makes you proud of the USA?

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How different would this world be now if all of the freedom loving nations not taken a stand against all the "ism's". By showing resolve and willingness to stop the "isms" those that do not believe in freedom did not win those conflicts.
Amazon



you mean like Catholocism, capitalism and patriotism:S
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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Hey.. we've only been at this for 216 years. My ancestors were forced to flee Ireland 140 years ago because of starvation. I'm not a big flag waver, but sometimes I take offense at criticisms from Europe. Where do you think we learned all this stuff. But it's your right to express your opinions...don't let us stop you. Personally I'm rather fond of the English. I even like the French. The Germans... eh.
L.A.S.T. #24
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you mean like Catholocism, capitalism and patriotism



In this country we really do have religeous freedom, I went to Catholic and protestant parochial schools. My mother felt it was important to send me to the best schools she could afford even though she was a secretary.
I think capitalISM KICKS ASS all over the alternatives of communISM and socialISM.

And I am an ardent participant in patriotISM... as an American who has served her country. I got that belief from a family who has participated in this experiment in freedom for 300 years plus on this continent.

Even with all of that I am also a strident follower of liberalISM with a touch as you can see of conservatISM. I really do believe in this great country .

Amazon

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Yo', Cornish Chris. I can dig that you're proud to be an Englishman and even not too happy with Tony Blair lately, especially re: Iraq. Actually, even after the overthrow of Saddam (not a bad thing in and of itself), there are still a lot of us Yanks who are not happy with the Bagdhad adventure. As one American, I do think it's OK if France, Germany, and Turkey keep their own view of things and stick to them even when the going gets tough.

Maybe it's because this is an American website and most of us are Americans. But at least reading through the posts, I canhonestly say I'm not reading a bunch of idiotic "USA ! USA ! USA !" posts. Believe it or not, a lot of us here in America are put off by the boneheaded patriotic extremists. Nevertheless, we do find something in our history, and ourselves as a people that we take pride in. Never mind that the bloodiest war we ever fought was among ourselves ( to no one's surprise). Or that we have some nasty problems with racism, or that we may be too conservative or even religious. Or that we're falling into the trap of being the one great superpower. We are optimistic that we can get over all that stuff and keep going in the right direction.

God bless the Queen, she could use it.

Your humble servant.....Professor Gravity !

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Deep Breath...

Phenomenal crime levels
Highest murder rate in the world
"President" Bush
The "Liberation" of a country where 98% of people voted for it's president by one where less than 25% of people voted for theirs.
The 61% of adults now considered overweight or obese
That more coalition troops were killed in the current Gulf war by US troops than by the enemy



Now, for the CORRECT statistics, see below. All sources are linked.

Yes Crime levels are high, but you Europeans have us topped. Norway is higher and Sweeden has more than double our crime rate... According to the UN
http://www.uncjin.org/Statistics/WCTS/trc000927.pdf


Wow! Look at that. 6 countries with more than Double the homicide rate of the US according the World Health Organization. Where did you get your numbers again? Who told you whe had the highest homicide rate?
http://www.cely.com/firearms/graph10.html

And, yup...98% of Iraqis voted for Saddam... and who ran against him? and what were the consequences of not showing up to vote for Saddam?

Where the hell did you get the "less than 25%" voted for Bush? Did you completely make that up?

Bush received 47.87% of the poplar vote and 50.4% of the electoral college vote.
http://www.uselectionatlas.org/USPRESIDENT/frametextj.html

OMG ya got one right... 61% of Americans are overweight/moderately overweight/obese
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2002/01/31/health/main326811.shtml

And Combat deaths in Iraq... It might help if the numbers you were using were not from the first week of the war before anyone got killed in combat. Here are the numbers as of June 25, 2003:

157 U.S. and British troops had died
109 Americans have died in combat
Noncombatant U.S. deaths so far in this war is 17
fewer than a dozen Friendly Fire (counted in combat deaths)
31 British deaths, most of which were caused by helicopter crashes.
6 of them were friendly fire.
http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/17/sprj.irq.casualties/

Next time you might want to do a little research before you libel someone with false information.

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Next time you might want to do a little research before you libel someone with false information.



Now where's the fun in that;)
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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OK Chris,

Did you read what you wrote as you typed it. LMAO, Thats the biggest heap of crap I'I've read today. Scream if you will... your proud to be a Brit, are ye trying to make out that the UK is a better place to be???
HAH!!!!!
Were you born with a silver spoon in you're mouth? I guess you were, AND you are just too arrogant to see the facts. "President" Bush .. well i cant say there's much right with him... but Thatcher was worse.The one thing the Brits guarantee is that they think they have it all worked out. The get pissed off at minority's in their cities, but claim to be sympathetic. There country was built on the backs of immigrants just like the USA but the fail to acknowledge it. If your working class in Britain, rest assured you'll stay that way. As for "The 61% of adults now considered overweight or obese" The Brits would be too If they could afford to eat. The rich get richer and the poor continually get kicked to the ground. They Brits are continually being put down by their own government and there too stupid to realize it. The have more tabloid press there then anywhere else in the world and the general public eat up ever word. LMAO The SUN IS GOSPEL there
Having lived in both countries for a considerable length of time I would have to say that the UK sucks. I'm neither British or American but you have no business talking about the politics of the USA till ye bother to read a history book of your own.
I finish to say this, Britain is a country full of hypocrites just like YOU. I HOPE you continue to enjoy it, cause Wild Horses couldn't DRAG me Back there.

OOOOOOOOooooooo and LQQK!!!!!!
I see yet again the Americans have no problem making you look like the WEAKARSE DUNCE you are, just from doing a little research.

Nice one Blue ;)

BTW Anyone for Tennis???


Hope you don't get Banned!

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I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth.

I am not trying to make out that the UK is a better place to be.

I appreciate Blue clearing up the facts for me and have stated that to him in a pm. If I wasn't so busy being put down by my government I would have realised my mistake. My statements were wild and unfounded - I am a cad and a bounder and deserve to be pistol whipped.

Thatcher was what the country needed at the time - the best way to rate your current President is to compare to a Prime Minister of some twenty years ago, I see that now.

I hate the tabloid press more than you, believe me.

I am off to buy my ticket to NY and apply for a Green Card as the eloquent diatribe has changed my mind.

The weekend is upon us - Blue ones to you all and no offence meant to anyone.

CJP

Gods don't kill people. People with Gods kill people

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Hello CornishChris. I am TheAnvil. Quite an interesting diatribe you presented in this post, I must admit. One wonders as to your exact motive for doing so. From its tenor I assume you seek to encourage the Americans who frequent this forum to find fault with their own country. While that is fine and dandy, I think if you would read American newspapers and a few political threads in the 'talkback' forum that deal with American politics, we are quite adept at doing just that. Since I see you are an Enthusiast, so I assume you have read such threads - at least passingly.

Regardless, the tenor and content of your post relay to me a feeling of resentment towards America. The fact that you posted such on this thread, whose obvious intent was to encourage Americans in the forums to reflect on what makes them feel most American, in conjunction with the timing of your post reeks of malice.

Regardless of your intent, let me address a few points for you on this eve of American Independence.

Metal detectors in schools
This wouldn't have prevented Dunblane in 1996, would it? Exactly who on this forum is NOT ashamed of this sad fact of American life?

Phenomenal crime levels
High crime? You betcha. With freedom comes responsibility, and given the relatively low education level of the US populace, many choose to embrace crime vice get off of their lazy ass and learn/work. They are FREE to do that, so we are free to lock their sorry asses up. Exactly what has the crime rate done since the British surrendered their firearms in '97? I know about locking up heros who shoot intruders to their homes over there, but what are the statistics?:ph34r:

"President" Bush

When discussing a topic where informed people might be in the audience, it would be helpful to actually do your research. Exactly which vote count did Mr. Bush lose? Not the Electoral College, which, as those of us who have read the Constitution know, elects the president. Not a single counting of the votes in the state of Florida. Not the first count. Not the recount. Not the re-recount. Not even the non-binding recount done by an independent[sic] media-led group. Seeing you place "President" in quotes causes one to wonder at your cognizance of any points of fact in the matter.

Iraqi Liberation

Ahhh yes. This issue. Truth be told, it ticks a lot of Americans off. I, a Libertarian yet still a Bush supporter, remain flabergasted as to the man's reasoning for making this a centerpiece of his foreign policy in the post-9/11 era. Hindsight being the beautiful thing that it is, I do see that some good has come of it. You neglected to mention the children's prisons, mass graves, rape rooms, and torture chambers (I repeat myself) that we discovered/stopped the use of via our invasion. Form your own opinion, but I'm proud they will not be used for the incarceration of children, the rape of women, or the torture of prisoners while the US remains in control of that country. I also doubt we'll kill people en masse and bury them in mass graves while we are in control as well. This, makes me proud.

Obesity
Major problem - you'll see it addressed in many American news outlets.

Troop Deaths
State your source. I hold that you are incorrect.

France
This nation has never been a true ally of the US. Even in WWI/WWII. Their intervention in the American Revolution was simply an extension of a war they were conducting in Europe - not out of any affection for the revolting colonies or their cause. Check out the XYZ affair, the French&Indian Wars, etc. The French managed to surrender so fast to Hitler and his evil that Churchill was quoted as saying "at least they could have tried."

As far as flaming them for making a choice, yes we Americans have flamed them, and done so with fervor. Perhaps those of us who have seen a bit of the French media, their portrayal of the President, and personally witnessed their snotty attitudes towards Americans have a different viewpoint than yours. I'm sure you can infer the reason why.

Humility
Your insinuation that Americans are all-proud and not critical of our own nation is both ludicrous to the point of absurdity and reeks of ignorance of American culture. Have you even read an American newspaper or engaged in conversation with any Americans about our nation? If you had, you would have noted that we realize that we have problems that we need to address as a nation - culturally, fiscally, or otherwise.

We constantly address our faults at all levels of government. We constantly criticize our leaders. We constantly seek solutions to the problems we encounter. It's one of the greatest strengths of America, come to think of it.

British problems
As if Americans don't have any? Good for you. You present this section of your diatribe to mislead the reader as to your true intent (America bashing) and to make yourself feel better for bashing America - a nation with which you seem to be only passingly familiar. Bash away at Blair if you choose - your countrymen elected the man. I like him - you obviously don't.

Ashamed to be an American
You present this portion of your diatribe at precisely the right position. You bash America, bash your own country to mislead the uneducated/gullible reader as to the true intent of your post, then throw this holier-than-thou/philosophical question out there to entice the reader to reflect on the bad things about America vice all of the good things. This on the eve of our most revered partriotic holiday, the Fourth of July. Your actions here reek of malicious intent and an utter lack of class. One might hold it akin to being invited to an ex-girlfriend's wedding then telling the groom you boinked his bride at the reception. Piss.

Thank you for your shallow attempt at America bashing CornishChris. It provided a brief bit of amusement for me. Perhaps I'll present a list of things that anger me about my country on this thread at a later date. For now, I'm going to drink some KY bourbon then hit the rack so I can get up, run, then go skydiving to celebrate the Fourth of July. Have fun paying for your television license.

Beers to all! And God Bless the United States of America!

Vinny the Anvil
:)
Vinny the Anvil
Post Traumatic Didn't Make The Lakers Syndrome is REAL
JACKASS POWER!!!!!!

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Of course we have our freedom too. Its really hard to explain it--the feeling, no words can really describe the depth of it. Its something you would have to experience when you see the flag and hear the "Star Spangled Banner", see every day people become heros, ...



I have experienced that when i was in a US school, although its a long time ago. But isn't that the same feeling that makes it possible to make 60% of all Americans believe that Iraq was a terorist threat? (Before the war started)

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...understand what good we actually do around the world



Are you aware of the bad?

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No system is perfect. Heaven knows ours has flaws.

After emerging victorious and mostly unopposed after the last "Good War" (WWII), I'd have to say that I'm proudest of the amazing breakthroughs in science and technology, made possible by the nearly limitless potential our brightest thinkers are free to achieve. Thanks to the daring and initiative of the Founders, who stood on the shoulders of the Enlightenment and used their brilliance as a torch to ignite freedom around the world, never before in Mankind's history have so many had such immense opportunity, unconstrained by ridiculous notions of "class" or "caste". The putting to paper of that idea alone, the "self-evident" (or "DUH!") TRUTHS that we're all equal and have basic RIGHTS that belong to us all, no matter who we are or where we're from, makes me proudest of all.



Do you think all of that is not valid for all other 1st world countries?

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I could come up with an endless list of reasons to be a proud American. But since I have seen many other countries I know it is not an accurate statement that Americans are more proud of their country than other people are of theirs.



But it sure goes for my country where there was even a discussion if a politician can be proud to be german. But i guess thats an exception.

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I have found that even Western Europeans (people of first world countries, England, Spain, Italy, Germany, etc.) who tend to be proud of their countries, when speaking honestly will tell you that they love their country but give them a green card and they will be in the U.S. in a flash.



huuuh? If i would have a high payed job, then yes, that could be interesting, because of the tax. But if not, i am not willing to lose my good pay, my 28 days of vacation and my right to drive as fast as i desire. I don't think many Europeans would do that, i have even heard of the oposite case.

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On balance I would stack up our good/bad ratio against any other countries good/bad ratio historically.

At least when we build concentration camps.. we keep the people alive and treat them well. ( Jjapanese American citizens in WW II.. shameful) ( Taliban- Al Queda.. feed em house em let em practice their religeon BUT keep there till they all die of old age)


Millions of tons of food are sent worldwide every year..... Billions of dollars are sent to other countries every year for medical and educational or construction projects in many many countries world wide.
And just where did so much of the chemical and biological technology and parts come from that were the whole basis of the WMD of Iraq??????HMMMM

They may have been destroyed but they did exist at one time.. as evidenced by what the UN did in the 90's inside Iraq. I myself think the case for the war was overstated in that respect.. it was a forgone conclusion... just another dictator was stopped before he got to the stage of killing MILLIONS of people like certain other dictators did before we learned to stop them before they could harm more than just their own citizens.. then again some of those citizens were far more complicit

Look at all the good things other countries like Germany and the Soviets and the rest of the list have done for others around the world.

I like our track record historically far better.

Amazon

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...understand what good we actually do around the world


Are you aware of the bad?



All of it... NO. No one is.
...More than most Americans. Yes.

I may be a bumpkin living in the big city, but the Internet lets me see the opinions and facts of the other side of the world.

A goal of mine is to never step into an argument unless I have enough knowledge to argue either side and win. Then I know its safe to form an educated opinion.

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"Thatcher was what the country needed at the time"

Funniest thing I've heard all day!

Happy birthday America,
Congratulations for putting a man on the moon, and giving us powered flight so we can all fly.
Thanks for bringing affordable cars to the little people.
Thanks for stepping in to help us with a spot of bother over in Europe a wee while back.
Thanks for the lend lease, the liberty ships, and the north Atlantic convoys.
Thanks for helping us keep the bear out of Europe, and the dragon out of south east Asia

Happy birthday once again, enjoy your day.B|
--------------------

He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson

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Millions of tons of food are sent worldwide every year..... Billions of dollars are sent to other countries every year for medical and educational or construction projects in many many countries world wide.



Americas development aid compared to the GNP is lower that that of most European countries.

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And just where did so much of the chemical and biological technology and parts come from that were the whole basis of the WMD of Iraq??????HMMMM



He got them from companies in all western nations, thats nothing to be proud of, if it happend in the time of the embargo, companies that did that where condemned. But he was also supported by the government of a nation:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/Story/0,2763,866942,00.html


I know your overall track record is good.

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"Thatcher was what the country needed at the time"

Funniest thing I've heard all day!

Happy birthday America,
Congratulations for putting a man on the moon, and giving us powered flight so we can all fly.
Thanks for bringing affordable cars to the little people.
Thanks for stepping in to help us with a spot of bother over in Europe a wee while back.
Thanks for the lend lease, the liberty ships, and the north Atlantic convoys.
Thanks for helping us keep the bear out of Europe, and the dragon out of south east Asia

Happy birthday once again, enjoy your day.B|


YOU GREAT BIG SKIRT WEARING SUCK HOLE :D:D:D:D:D:D:D
You are not now, nor will you ever be, good enough to not die in this sport (Sparky)
My Life ROCKS!
How's yours doing?

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And you see this asa good thing where, possessions and ownership have risen above people and community



I certainly do. There are few countries in the world where I as a woman can own my own home, drive a 2003 truck, own a couple large boats, take vacations where ever I see fit in the world, afford to take up a very expensive sport and buy a lot of new equipment to support that habit. Sure those are materialistic things but I also served in the armed forces of this country for 8 years. I have traveled to about 40 countries in my life and have seen how many of those countries allow women the advantages I have been blessed within this one. I worked VERY HARD for a good education that allowed me to get a very good job, how many women in Africa or the middle east or Asia or even in Europe can attain that and have anything more than being a slave to their circumstances.

No its not about the materialistic things in life for me, but I would venture I am far happier than MOST women on this planet in the opportunities I was given as part of that.
IT seems to me that a goodly number of people on this planet seek those same advantages.
Then again there are those who would drag the entire world kicking and screaming back into the squalor and darkness of the 7th century.
Against that I would fight anyone anytime and anyplace to avoid.

Amazon



Amen Amazon. Very well said and thank you for the service for this GRET COUNTRY.
Airborne
Blue Skies, No Wind
Feet and Knees Together

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