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Brodi3687

Beginner skydiver needs results

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So I'm a beginner skydiver that is in need of a lot of information about rigs as I want to start looking into getting the complete rig. Like what brand of containers are the best for a beginner? Also types of mains I should look at (including sq ft)? If it helps any, I am 5' 7" 160 pounds with athletic build. If there is also any sites that can I can read up on for reviews on good beginner rigs that would be awesome also!! Then finally for now, used or new and if getting used on main, number of jumps on it for the maximum that I should buy at? Thanks

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Brodi, if you're a student go talk to the instructors who have been jumping with you and seeing first hand what "the best" rig/canopy would be for where you're at in you're skydiving career (if you don't like their suggestions seek a second opinion or consider they know of what they speak). Internet opinions will never be more than supposition based on THEIR history/experience or their wild-ass-guess based on an incomplete set of criteria you've provided. Make your decisions based on YOU my man.

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The generic answer is that you should probably look into a used rig for your first one. You can buy a complete rig, or piece one together buying a main, reserve and container all seperately.

The idea is that your first rig won't be too much different than the student rigs you've been jumping. That what you need when you're just off student status, as you're still pretty much a student. 100 jumps later, you might be ready or looking for something different, and if you bought a new rig, selling it with 100 jumps on it is going to lose you a couple thousand dollars. If you buy a reasonably priced used rig, you can sell it 100 jumps later for about what you paid for it.

It's just like cars - if you buy a new Honda, drive it for 6 months, and go to sell it, you're going to lose big time. There's a big price difference between a 'new' Honda, and a 6 month old Honda. If you bought a 10 year old Honda, and drove it for 6 months, it's still worth about what you paid. Not much difference in price between a 10 year old Honda and a 10.5 year old Honda.

For a more specific answer, do a search and read up on riggers and inspections on used gear BEFORE buying anything. Also, talk to your instructors about specific models or sizes, they know you better than I do.

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There is no BEST.

Everyone will tell you that the rig they jump is best or why would they have bought it.

I like Infinity, so it is the best.:)



Spectre in a Vector 3 container with skyhook is the best =P

Opens strait and smoothly every time! if you want something that will open strait with no line twists and never breaks your back, Spectre is the one for you!!

Vector 3 Container with sky hook~ opens your reserve in less than 100' there are plenty of vidos out there on this...


Edit:

I got a used spectre 170 with about 100 jumps on it. I would recomend something like 100-400 jumps. If its new it will be a pain in the ass to pack. Mine still is like putting a wet cat in a sandwich bag. But thats just with my research. What ever you can find used in the size you need is the answer really... As you will only maybe keep it for 100 to 200 jumps.
Cheers

Jon W

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Vector 3 Container with sky hook~ opens your reserve in less than 100' there are plenty of vidos out there on this...


Cool, I'll free-fall down to a hundred feet and pull my reserve. The skyhook will save me. :)


I found a video once where they had their main open and cut away at 100' and still had time to flare... But yea it assumes that you had your main deployed somewhat....
Cheers

Jon W

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Vector 3 Container with sky hook~ opens your reserve in less than 100' there are plenty of vidos out there on this...



I found a video once where they had their main open and cut away at 100' and still had time to flare... But yea it assumes that you had your main deployed somewhat....



A UPT test video using b.a.s.e. jumpers with 'reserves' packed slider down.

Be careful what you're offering as 'advice'...somebody somewhere might listen :|

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No the slider and reserve was packed afaik just normal as seen on these videos

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMfmTpsD7dg

compairing with this one, i mean he was spinning and not level flight so yeah it would take a bit longer when he got line twists in the reserve....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gW7KEDRKhqY


I am just saying it is faster than other types of RSLs and the desclaimer is you should never relay on your RSL to pull your reserve.....
Cheers

Jon W

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... As you will only maybe keep it for 100 to 200 jumps.



Sounds like somebody has been feeding you a line of shit.

You keep the thing until you're thoroughly skilled in flying the thing. 100-200 jumps ain't a-gonna do it unless you aggressively work on canopy skills...every jump.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Cool, I'll free-fall down to a hundred feet and pull my reserve. The skyhook will save me.



PLEASE... If you're jesting, add a disclaimer. If not, get educated on your gear and how a skyhook works. [:/]



I see what you are saying. The sarcasm was plain to me but it may not have been to others....particularly the youngsters out there.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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... As you will only maybe keep it for 100 to 200 jumps.



Sounds like somebody has been feeding you a line of shit.

You keep the thing until you're thoroughly skilled in flying the thing. 100-200 jumps ain't a-gonna do it unless you aggressively work on canopy skills...every jump.




Almost everyone i talked to did several progressive downsizes from their student rig as i have 210 to 185 to my now 170

just a few sites, but i got most of my information from my rigger, now i will stay with my rig for long time because i love it, and have no intention of swooping anytime soon....

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk/cms/index.php?/topic/18056-canopy-progression/
Cheers

Jon W

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It's great that you have a Skyhook. But don't get too excited about what it will do, to the point you rely on it.

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[Vector 3 Container with sky hook~ opens your reserve in less than 100' there are plenty of vidos out there on this...



I can also tell you about my Skyhook disengaging due to the angle my malfunctioning main was pulling on it (as it is supposed to), and not opening my reserve in 100'.

Just be aware that the Skyhook is just a well marketed tool, it's not a guarantee of anything. Do not change the way you skydive because you have a cool bit of gear.
--
"I'll tell you how all skydivers are judged, . They are judged by the laws of physics." - kkeenan

"You jump out, pull the string and either live or die. What's there to be good at?

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... As you will only maybe keep it for 100 to 200 jumps.



Sounds like somebody has been feeding you a line of shit.

You keep the thing until you're thoroughly skilled in flying the thing. 100-200 jumps ain't a-gonna do it unless you aggressively work on canopy skills...every jump.




Almost everyone i talked to did several progressive downsizes from their student rig as i have 210 to 185 to my now 170

just a few sites, but i got most of my information from my rigger, now i will stay with my rig for long time because i love it, and have no intention of swooping anytime soon....

http://www.bigairsportz.com/pdf/bas-sizingchart.pdf

http://www.ukskydiver.co.uk/cms/index.php?/topic/18056-canopy-progression/



You did notice that the Big Air Sports chart recommends a 210 for your 185 pounds exit weight and 18 jumps? And it also says, "Jumpers with less than 500 skydives must not downsize beyond this chart."

The "line of shit" comes from this:
It sounds like somebody told you to "get the smallest canopy that you may want because if you bought a bigger one you'd be unhappy with it after 100-200 jumps and then have to buy a new one."

Well, the smart money says otherwise.

Downsizing is not the issue. HOW you do it is the issue.

The smart money says to get the canopy that best fits your CURRENT skill level, learn to fly it and THEN downsize if you feel the need.

You may not know it yet but rapid downsizing is one of the major causes of canopy-related injuries. People downsize to canopy flight characteristics that are beyond their current skill level and they get themselves into trouble. Please don't be a statistic.

While your wing loading on the 170 is right near 1.0, you may or not may not be just fine for now. It's not about wing loading. It's all about skills on that wing loading. The point is to learn to fly the canopy you have before you downsize. Too many injuries happen because people ignore that.

I'm not hammering you....just passing on some info to you. One of these days you'll have enough knowledge and experience to accurately evaluate your own skills and make intelligent decisions on your own....and that's not a condescending comment...it's fact.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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... As you will only maybe keep it for 100 to 200 jumps.



Sounds like somebody has been feeding you a line of shit.



100-200 jumps on an early canopy is typical and in-line with Brian Germain's 1.0 + .1/100 jumps Wingloading Never Exceed formula.

For example, you have a 180 pound guy with 30 pounds of gear for a 210 pound exit weight under a 210 for a 1.0 + 0 wing loading, he down sizes after 100 jumps to a 190 at 1.10 pounds per square foot, puts 150 jumps on that and at 250 total downsizes to a 170 at 1.24 pounds per square foot, etc.

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You keep the thing until you're thoroughly skilled in flying the thing. 100-200 jumps ain't a-gonna do it unless you aggressively work on canopy skills...every jump.



While not sufficient to master the canopy it should be enough to learn the survival skills like reasonable accuracy, down-wind/cross-wind landings, up-hill and down-hill landings, turning after plane-out, making flat turns, landing from brakes, arresting a dive, etc.

With only the first few hundred jumps under your belt down-sizing within Brian's limits is also a less dangerous path to skydiving excitement than mastering an early canopy with aggressive turning approaches.

If you're older, wiser, and don't suffer from the testosterone poisoning which leads to smaller canopies so you keep the canopy longer than expected the worst things likely to happen are needing to put new lines on it for a few hundred dollars and putting off jumping a custom parachute in your colors.

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100-200 jumps on an early canopy is typical and in-line with Brian Germain's 1.0 + .1/100 jumps Wingloading Never Exceed formula.

For example, you have a 180 pound guy with 30 pounds of gear for a 210 pound exit weight under a 210 for a 1.0 + 0 wing loading, he down sizes after 100 jumps to a 190 at 1.10 pounds per square foot, puts 150 jumps on that and at 250 total downsizes to a 170 at 1.24 pounds per square foot, etc.


Keep in mind here that we are talking to a young jumper that lists 18 jumps and has moved from 210 down to 170. The is NOT in line with Germaine's recommendations. We are, or should be, trying to get him to see the light of the less-than-ideal line of shit he was being fed.

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You keep the thing until you're thoroughly skilled in flying the thing. 100-200 jumps ain't a-gonna do it unless you aggressively work on canopy skills...every jump.



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While not sufficient to master the canopy it should be enough to learn the survival skills


Which would qualify for thoroughly skilled at that level...again, if you aggressively work on canopy skills...every jump.


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If you're older, wiser, and don't suffer from the testosterone poisoning which leads to smaller canopies so you keep the canopy longer than expected the worst things likely to happen are needing to put new lines on it for a few hundred dollars and putting off jumping a custom parachute in your colors.


Agreed. That's what I was trying to put across.
The italics highlight that line of shit he was being fed.
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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Cool, I'll free-fall down to a hundred feet and pull my reserve. The skyhook will save me.



PLEASE... If you're jesting, add a disclaimer. If not, get educated on your gear and how a skyhook works. [:/]



I see what you are saying. The sarcasm was plain to me but it may not have been to others....particularly the youngsters out there.


Come on guys, why so serious? It's not like... Oh right... Never mind.

So what I meant to point out was that, while you might get lucky cutting away at 100 ft with a skyhook fitted rig and survive, the certainty of "Vector 3 Container with sky hook~ opens your reserve in less than 100'" is misleading.

I would never jump a canopy d-bagged, slider up from 100 ft in a static envrionment, with a properly loaded canopy above nice, soft ground. I would certainly not cutaway at the same altitude in the skydiving environment, even with a skyhook. But hey, that's just me :)

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100-200 jumps on an early canopy is typical and in-line with Brian Germain's 1.0 + .1/100 jumps Wingloading Never Exceed formula.



I agree, however Germain's chart also says that his formula is the *earliest* one should downsize, not that one has to. So Pop's statement about having a few hundred jumps to get a mastery is still true. The trick with newer skydivers (of which I am one) is to learn that these jump number recommendations (whether it is wing loading, cameras, wingsuiting, etc.) are the bare minimum. Hitting that milestone doesn't mean you make your transition within a jump or two, it means you can start to really think about it in a serious way and figure out what your strengths and weaknesses are so you can work on them and THEN pick up the new hotness. It's hard to resist that temptation, but many don't even realize that waiting is even an option in the first place.

Commonly new jumpers eager to get into the cool shit think of the jump number recommendations as their deadline, like waiting for the bell at recess.

(edited for clarity)

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It's hard to resist that temptation



I don't find there to be any temptation at all. The expectation that the temptation is normal gets passed on to newbies and then...

My Pilot 210 loaded at 1.1:1 is still by far the fastest canopy I've ever had, and by far the best landing canopy I've ever had.
People are sick and tired of being told that ordinary and decent people are fed up in this country with being sick and tired. I’m certainly not, and I’m sick and tired of being told that I am

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Commonly new jumpers eager to get into the cool shit think of the jump number recommendations as their deadline, like waiting for the bell at recess.



Good stuff, 3mpire.

Side note: the young jumper of whom I speak has already posted in another thread that he is one of those people who is very antsy to reach 200 jumps so that he can get a wingsuit.

I'd like to add here that, like has been said many times before by many people, it really is NOT about jump numbers. Unfortunately, we have little else for quantifying readiness.

Vis: 200 jumps, 7 AFF and 193 H&Ps.
Hey! I can get a wingsuit now!
IMO, that's not a good idea and it violates the intent of the 200-jump requirement. YMMV.
(yes, it's an extreme scenario and is only used for demonstration purposes)
My reality and yours are quite different.
I think we're all Bozos on this bus.
Falcon5232, SCS8170, SCSA353, POPS9398, DS239

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