Push 0 #26 July 15, 2003 QuoteI absolutely disagree. Scare the hell out of them. If they still show up, cool. They're making a jump while being informed of the risks. Yes, but risks to whom? The risk to a person doing his first tandem jump with a highly experienced tandem master is not the same as the risk to a freeflyer on a 76 Velocity. The incidents forum contains maybe 5 posts that are relevant to the person doing their first tandem. The lessons from those incidents are mainly that shit happens and make sure you do your tandem at a good dropzone and listen to your tandem master. How would it benefit a 40 year old man who is doing just this one tandem in his life to know that he should be careful when flying a VX? Of course, the people that are serious about skydiving and this webpage will probably register anyway. It's not a very big burden. After all, one of the most important lessons of a student is, in my humble opinion, how to learn on their own. I'm all for education and a healthy dose of scaring students, but I think that bombarding the aforementioned 40 year old man with carnage stories is not a good idea either. -- Toggle Whippin' Yahoo Skydiving is easy. All you have to do is relax while plummetting at 120 mph from 10,000' with nothing but some nylon and webbing to save you. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 21 #27 July 15, 2003 It will at the very least keep the Google robots out.... I don't mind people (even non-jumpers) reading that forum and I'm also not trying to keep them out. I'm simply requiring they put in a little effort and register before they start playing. We'll take it from there.Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
billvon 2,921 #28 July 16, 2003 >How would it benefit a 40 year old man who is doing just this one >tandem in his life to know that he should be careful when flying a VX? It doesn't, but then it doesn't benefit him to read "how to fly your canopy in turbulence" or "top 5 RSL myths" either. They might scare him as well. And as someone else said - good! If there are people who are scared when they find out they can die skydiving, we have done them a favor. And if they can't tell the difference between an experienced-skydiver issue and what they learn at a tandem class (and which is more applicable to them) then they will be happier watching TV. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
andy2 0 #29 July 16, 2003 plus the fact that hes reading everything available to him suggests that he wants to further pursue skydiving after his "one tandem jump". Its better to be informed and scared, than ignorant and comfortable, imo. --------------------------------------------- let my inspiration flow, in token rhyme suggesting rhythm... Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 21 #30 July 16, 2003 Been following these discussions, received some feedback via email and PMs and also in this post. I've made some changes to the Guest permissions that I think will strike a balance between making sure people who really want to learn will at least know the forum exists (even though they may not be registered) and still requiring users to register before they can read the threads or participate in the discussions. Here it is: Guests will be able to see the Incidents Forum in the forum list They will be able to view all the discussions that are in the forum (see what people are talkling about) but will be required to log in to access and read or post to a thread.I think this is a good compromise. I may also consider this for other forums in the future. Dropzone.com is provided free of charge and I do not think it's unreasonable to require people to at least register (which is FREE) to continue to enjoy the benefits of some of what the site offers.Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bbarnhouse 0 #31 July 16, 2003 QuoteDropzone.com is provided free of charge and I do not think it's unreasonable to require people to at least register (which is FREE) to continue to enjoy the benefits of some of what the site offers. Amen to that. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #32 July 16, 2003 There's a lot of forums like this that you can't even go past the forum main listing without being registered. I don't see why that would be a problem to do that here.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Iflyme 0 #33 July 16, 2003 Quotehow do we know there isn't a press member amoung us already? i know that there is, i won't mention any names.Listen, I am a television news producer. Jessica is a journalist. There are, like you said, others who work in "news" here on DZ.Com. There is absolutely nothing wrong with having "mambers of the press" among us. In fact, when the head instructor from my dz was critically injured in a landing accident, another TV station inaccurately and inappropriately reported the story. I, however, produced a news story that was factual and informative. Our newsroom received e-mails and phone calls from the local skydiving community praising our fair and respectful coverage of a horrible accident that really impacted skydivers here. Please don't paint all people who work in journalism with the same brush. Most of us do everything we can to be truthful and accurate in the way we deliver news. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 21 #34 July 16, 2003 I agree. And the intent has never been to keep anyone out. I simply think anything that starts chipping away at anonymity in that forum (even if it's a small step at a time) is a good thing.Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
AggieDave 6 #35 July 16, 2003 QuoteMost of us do everything we can to be truthful and accurate in the way we deliver news. Unfortunately, a large majority of the media-types I've dealt with didn't give a shit, they were just like starved dogs, going in for the kill, wanting something terrible to lead the news with. Example (a different one, since most of the folks here know my experience after Bonfire collapsed): When we lost our 182 a bit ago, the media pulled into the airport about 10 minutes after we got back to the hanger (about 25 minutes after the crash). The DZO gave a quick news confrence, but before it started he stated that although the plane is bent up, everyone walked away with no injuries and not even a scratch. The media folks there actually looked disappointed, to the point that it was VERY obvious. Infact, it didn't even get any air time on the news that night. The only thing published in the media about it was a fairly good article in the newspaper by a guy (a whuffo) that knows folks on the airport and sorta knows the DZO. Even then, the layout folks buried it in the paper...basically because there were no deaths and no gore. So, can you understand where folks like me are coming from? Hell, my experience during Bonfire is enough to leave me with a burning hatred of the media.--"When I die, may I be surrounded by scattered chrome and burning gasoline." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
sangiro 21 #36 July 16, 2003 One more suggestion that I am looking at is to provide "delayed access" to that forum. That is, you need to be a member for (let's say) 48 hours before you can view threads there. Or, you need to have been active in last 48 hours to access a forum. The latter option can also prevent people who only come to the site (like reporters) when an incident happen to access the forum quickly for some news. They need to be in here all the time or they don't have access.... for 48 hours. More on this later....Safe swoops Sangiro Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Jessica 0 #37 July 16, 2003 QuoteI agree. And the intent has never been to keep anyone out. I simply think anything that starts chipping away at anonymity in that forum (even if it's a small step at a time) is a good thing. Agreed, both as a skydiver and a journalist. This is a good move. I think a time delay is a good idea too.Skydiving is for cool people only Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MattyBoy 0 #38 July 16, 2003 Very good idea...partial knowledge can be a dangerous thing in the wrong minds! I may be gullible but at least I have a magic fish Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eiley 0 #39 July 16, 2003 I'm not one for censorship, but looking at the UK fatality thread in Incidents, I notice it has had over 20,000 views. This seems to indicate that many more than dz commers are checking it out regularly. It would be a shame if the jumpers here had to start self-censoring for fear of being (mis)quoted in the tabloids and the delay idea could help a little. Cheers, Eiley nothing to see here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nacmacfeegle 0 #40 July 16, 2003 "Or, you need to have been active in last 48 hours to access a forum." Okay, I'm not sure how this would work, so not sure I like the idea of this. Lets say you are away for a weekend, would that imply you can't access the incident forum till say tuesday night at the earliest? I'm concerned that we'd lose the 'real-time' information flow, which could be critical in controlling equipment / procedure failure incidents. I'd rather have a hundred bad press reports than a single avoidable injury to one of our own. Lets face it, the rest of the world thinks we are all crazy, daredevil, surfing, bank robbing, binge drinking, party maniac, drug smuggler, dropout dudes (and dudettes)anyway (Hollywood says so). If I'm reading the reason for change right, this has all been driven by UK press quoting directly from the incidents forum. Fortunately instances like this are all too rare, and I think we are in danger of 'throwing the baby out with the bath'. How about this, everyone who posts or has a genuine interest in incidents probably has a licence number of some sort, would it be possible to have access to incidents linked to the completion of a licence number field in your profile? Of course you could still enter fictitious license details, but this is surely better than being denied access to potentially vital information. If the incidents forum didn't even appear to people without a complete license field, then curious press people wouldn't look for it. It may even be useful also to link this 'shut out' mechanism to accessing people's profile data? That way direct quotes will be limited to the likes of "a jumper known only as 'Aggiedave' had the following comment...."Asshats". As opposed to say...David Lund of College Station Texas was quoted on the popular dropzone.com internet information portal as saying "Asshats".....-------------------- He who receives an idea from me, receives instruction himself without lessening mine; as he who lights his taper at mine, receives light without darkening me. Thomas Jefferson Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EricaH 0 #41 July 16, 2003 I agree also, but only 48 hrs? There are many skydivers that leave work earlier on Friday & aren't back on a computer till Monday lunch... that's 76 hrs, at least. There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear. PMS #227 (just like the TV show) Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Guest #42 July 16, 2003 Good idea. Kudos to the one who suggested it."The mouse does not know life until it is in the mouth of the cat." Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FliegendeWolf 0 #43 July 16, 2003 QuoteThe only reason it exists is because the fatality database elsewhere on the net stopped being maintained. It's right here.A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
kizzie92 0 #44 July 16, 2003 Am I correct in that if you are not registered, you will not even see that the incidents forum is there? If you can't see it you wouldn't know to go looking for it unless you came accross a reference to it in another forum such as this. TonyThe big difference between sex for money and sex for free is that sex for money usually costs a lot less. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
PhillyKev 0 #45 July 16, 2003 QuoteQuoteThe only reason it exists is because the fatality database elsewhere on the net stopped being maintained. It's right here. Cool...it wasn't being maintained for quite a while. Looks like it's back up and running. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
FliegendeWolf 0 #46 July 16, 2003 If you accesshttp://www.skydivingfatalities.com you come to a page that hasn't been updated. (Note the .info as opposed to .com in the address of the updated page)A One that Isn't Cold is Scarcely a One at All Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Remster 30 #47 July 16, 2003 I think you misunderstood the 48 hour delay (at least, I didnt understand it the way you did). I think Sangiro want the account to be acticated for the 1st time for 48 h before giving access to the forum. Correct?Remster Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Eiley 0 #48 July 16, 2003 The (non-US) incident reports for 2003 have already overtaken the number for all of 2002 Keep it safe people. Eiley nothing to see here Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mouth 0 #49 July 17, 2003 QuoteWe'll take it from there. Wow, all the hot guys are taking it from there. I love it when you guys take charge. Oh, and let Bytch do some slapping too, ok. Seriously, I think this is a good idea. Anything worth having is worth working for. -- Hot Mama At least you know where you stand even if it is in a pile of shit. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
turtlespeed 212 #50 July 17, 2003 is it feasable to have the lawyer types look into this? I mean is there some kind of liscensing thing or whatever (Yes, I am Legally Impared) I see alot of disclaimers and such. In the "I agree" form can there be a clause that will provide punishment for offenders that sign up or are we up against a wall here?I'm not usually into the whole 3-way thing, but you got me a little excited with that. - Skymama BTR #1 / OTB^5 Official #2 / Hellfish #408 / VSCR #108/Tortuga/Orfun Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
