Thank you God...... Have you thanked God lately?

[jfields 0]

Chris,

Correction noted.

Getting back to generalizations, from what I've seen, most religions have components of both humility and tolerance. The people out bashing the "unbelievers" often seem to have skipped a few chapters out of the books the allegedly revere.

[SkyDekker 1,121]

Chris this is not meant personally to you but:

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It is the teaching that no human being can ever judge another and their culpability before God. In fact, if I was to tell anyone they were going to hell, it would be considered a mortal sin in the Catholic Faith. I do not have the authority to judge anyone when in comes to matters of faith, for I am an fallible human. As Catholics, we are taught to concentrate on our own salvation and leave the rest to God. It's called having humility.

Did your organized religion have that in mind when they helped the Nazi regime try and exterminate Jews? Do they have that in mind when they continue to protect the pedofiles in their midst? Do they have that in mind when they continue to treat women as lesser beings?

My favourite has always been: A man can not have more than one wife. Except God off course, all nuns are married to him.

[skymama 35]

Chuteless, you might want to remember that the more noise you make, the less people listen.

In addition, read the Forum Rules. If I see another personal attack, you'll be banned from Talkback for awhile.

She is Da Man, and you better not mess with Da Man,
because she will lay some keepdown on you faster than, well, really fast. ~Billvon

[Muenkel 0]

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Did your organized religion have that in mind when they helped the Nazi regime try and exterminate Jews? Do they have that in mind when they continue to protect the pedofiles in their midst? Do they have that in mind when they continue to treat women as lesser beings?

My favourite has always been: A man can not have more than one wife. Except God off course, all nuns are married to him.

Justin,

1. Very fair questions and the answers are simple. Any "Catholic" that had anything to do with the extermination of the Jews was wrong and not acting according to the true teachings of the Catholic faith. They can call themselves what they want, it doesn't make them what they claim.

2. Any "Catholic" that has participated directly or indirectly in the molestation of children were/are wrong and not acting according to the true teachings of the Catholic faith. They can call themselves what they want, it doesn't make them what they claim.

3. As far as women being lesser beings, I would look to the role of the Blessed Virgin Mary. A woman was chosen to be the biological parent of the Son of God. And as Catholic teaching goes, She is the only human being that is currently in heaven both body and soul. Also, according to Catholic teaching, she is the only human ever conceived without original sin. I hardly consider her a "lesser being". If you are referring to the ban on women priests, that is a matter left up to the magisterium of the church. Under no circumstances are women in the Catholic faith considered "lesser beings". That is a complete lie and unfair to any practicing Catholic.

4. As for nuns being married to God and the claim He can have as many wives as He wants, my only answer is; He's God. I'm in no position to question Him.

Chris

[SkyDekker 1,121]

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Very fair questions and the answers are simple. Any "Catholic" that had anything to do with the extermination of the Jews was wrong and not acting according to the true teachings of the Catholic faith. They can call themselves what they want, it doesn't make them what they claim.

But they are still a part of the leadership of the Roman Catholic church. The leadership of your religion. Most to this day will not say they did anything wrong in those days.

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Any "Catholic" that has participated directly or indirectly in the molestation of children were/are wrong and not acting according to the true teachings of the Catholic faith. They can call themselves what they want, it doesn't make them what they claim.

Yet it seems ot be condoned, or at least defended by the leadership of the church. Only when it is determined that it is a serial pedophile will the church ban a priest. I guess when he rapes a little boy the first time, it isn't that serious. Drastic action is only needed if he does it more than once. Or should I say, gets caught more than once?

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If you are referring to the ban on women priests, that is a matter left up to the magisterium of the church. Under no circumstances are women in the Catholic faith considered "lesser beings". That is a complete lie and unfair to any practicing Catholic.

See, that part I do not understand. It is quite clear that the leadership of your church does not see women fit to be leaders in their community. Why is that? Obviously they think that men and women are not equal. Since the women are the group who are being denied a authoritive position, I can only conlude that they think less of women than they do of men.

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As for nuns being married to God and the claim He can have as many wives as He wants, my only answer is; He's God. I'm in no position to question Him.

So the teachings say one thing, but God can do the other? So much for leading by example I guess.

[PhillyKev 0]

Ok....here we go...I'm bored:

Rhino said, "the proof is in the bible"
-The bible is of questionable legitimacy. It was written down after years of oral tradition and then modified by political factions throughout the centuries. And why is the bible the right book and not the Koran or other equally plausible books?

Rhino brought up Pascal's wager (without calling it that). Pascal's wager says, if you believe in god you lose nothing, but if you don't believe you risk hell, so why take the risk.

Several flaws with this:
- You're risking hell by not believing EVERY religion because yours might be the wrong one, you might even be punished by the "true" god for worshipping a false one.

Rhino said that god has proven to him that he exists, therefore it is true.
-I have seen proof that god is dead, I've seen his corpse...therefore that is true.

[Zenister 0]

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Rhino brought up Pascal's wager (without calling it that). Pascal's wager says, if you believe in god you lose nothing, but if you don't believe you risk hell, so why take the risk.

Several flaws with this:
- You're risking hell by not believing EVERY religion because yours might be the wrong one, you might even be punished by the "true" god for worshipping a false one.

there are even more problems with it than that since very few things in life are two sided..

a qoute from another web discussion i once had

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i prefer "Pastur's wager": i get inoculated against smallpox, you just pray. We both expose ourselves to the full blown thing and see who lives

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[EricaH 0]

Chute - you & people like you are the reason people have a bad vision of religon.

Basically, the New Testiment says to go to heaven (ie. be saved), you need to do 2 things.
1) believe in God & Jesus as the Son of God &
2) do unto others as you would have done to yourself.
That's it pure & simple. There are many other rules & guidelins that expand on those basic 2 principals. The entire Old Testiment is an expansion on #2 & #1 is backed by the Bible.

It is personal choice (given by God) to believe what you want to believe & to act out how you believe. Almost all of the major world religons are based on the same premise w/ many of the same rules.

There have been zealots in every religous/non-religous grouping throughout histort that make their particular group look bad. Their actions reflect poorly on the actual basis of their religon. Those people read one sentance in their book & take it to the extreem. Before you can do anything, the whole pic needs to be evaluated.
For instance, women being silent in the church was a rule set because of a letter by one of the appostles to one particular church. This church was in a town where before "God" women in the temples were whores. Therefore even in the Christian church they were being whores... so the apostle told them to be silent & no longer follow the old ways. Modern religon gave this a broad application & all of a sudden, women's right to speak in church were taken away.

Religon is everything - even the non religon of Buddhism, is a religon. It is a fact that religous people control the earth. It can be a comfort & a sword. No matter what you believe or who you do or don't believe in it will affect you.

oh, BTW... it was never said that you HAVE to go to church. It was suggested that inorder to help you act in a Christlike manner, to be friends w/ other like minded people - it is more easily facilitated to have a weekly meeting.

The Christian religon is based on the fact that you can & should have your own personal relationship w/ you God & savior - use the Bible as a building block to base the relationship on, not necessairly to hide w/in its walls.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[lurch 0]

if thats the blanket that helps you sleep at night so be it, but dont pretend you have any better knowledge of the nature of reality because youve adopted the mythos of on of the most violent cultures on earth as your security blanket...

if thats what 'reality' is like i will gladly stand at the foot of his throne and tell him how arrogant, evil and unjust his system of salvation is, then jump off the cloud myself turning a few points and nail many docks on the way to hell with all the rest of the freefliers & other wonderful people who are unjustly damned by your myths for not believing in "the one true god".. far better to be with them than all the bastards i've met in my life who claim to be 'saved' simply because they accepted a carpenter who got himself nailed to a tree as their personal savior....

"do something while your still libel..just let the martyrs do it all for you...how easy to get your wings....."

save your sorrow, it is unwanted and unneeded..there are many things beyond mans comprehension, lame attempts by jewish philosophers to confine divinity to their narrow cultural understanding of the universe have no meaning to me i have seen and experienced far more than they could ever imagine and none of it cried the name of their mythical savior.....

Pure poetry, Zenister.
Personally I regard god as the great enemy, the great opponent, my worthy adversary.
Save a slot for me in your hellbound freefly bigway zen, cause if I ever meet the christian god in person, I will demand an explanation, then take him on, fists, teeth and feet.

"Not well put. All you have to do is be saved. You can be a great person. If you don't do that one simple thing and get saved you will be turned away. Simple but true."

If THAT hypocrisy is the Truth then that "god" of his can take his salvation and shove it. Saved from what? My "sins"? The only usable definition of sin in a living man's world is doing something that hurts others. I try not to and when I do, that pain comes back to me and I learn from it. I do not need to be "saved" from the error, I "save" myself by knowing better from then on. I'll be turned away? I won't be turned away because I would reject anything offered on such terms.
I will always be an honest, considerate, good-to-others person, deliberately, in full knowledge that I will reap no eternal reward, that everything good I do is lost in an abyss, as temporary as a raindrop, forgotten as soon as given. If heaven can only be accessed on THOSE terms I reject them totally, and will do everything I can to make the world a brighter place than I found it. And I will walk proudly into hell with a fierce grin and head held high knowing I did it on my terms, alone, with no payback or reward except knowing I did it right, improved some lives and left laughter and light behind me.
And I know all the friends I've lost and will lose will be waiting by the fire with a beer and a pie and a spot on the log saved for me...because as near as I can tell, they've rejected those terms too.
Personally "Jonathan livingston seagull" describes my spirituality better than I ever could. I just want to spend my life flying with my friends trying to learn enough to make it to the next level, and leave salvation to the salesmen. Is this evil?

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[PhillyKev 0]

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Personally "Jonathan livingston seagull" describes my spirituality better than I ever could.

A must read for all skydivers. Read that book long before I ever jumped but probably had influence in my desire to. The religious among you might want to avoid it though. A number of churches have declared it heresy because it's about a creature being happy for being himself and not living by the traditionaly rules of the society he's raised in.

[thethinker 0]

My GOD, how opinionated and CONDESCENDING is this forum? Don't get me wrong...opinions are great. I believe it was SadSue whom said something that variety is good. Just because she doesn't believe in YOUR God, or ANY God, DOES NOT make her sad. Infact, its to my knowledge that YOU indeed are the sad one here. Rather than making a mockery, or insulting, isn't it your duty or "desire" as a christian...as a male or female of Christ...to learn others? Its so called "believers" whom are the most hypocritical that support the theory even more...that there is no God. You believe what you want to believe, shell believe what she wants to believe. But don't call her SAD b/c she doesn't share the same belief as you. I'll quote you here..."May God open your eyes before its too late to correct you"....well im giving you your own advice. I hope he corrects you, to get out of your state of hypocrisy, so then when you want to preach and implement his word, you do it in a way of truth.

We do not have to visit a madhouse to find disordered minds; our planet is the mental institution of the universe.
-Johann von Goethe

[EricaH 0]

But, even religous people are told to be "teachable". No matter what the basis of any book is... there's something to be learned from it.
My family is extreemly Christian & I grew up encouraged to read on & understand, atheasim, evolution, buddhism, islam, judiasm, facism, socialism... & all the other isms.
After all, if you just blindly follow & don't know why, you are as bad off as the person you are judging.

I know, you shouldn't judge, but I'm directing this to all people of any ism that does judge & nothing's gonna change them.

There is no can't. Only lack of knowledge or fear. Only you can fix your fear.

PMS #227 (just like the TV show)

[Blahr 0]

Thank you god, for giving so many good things in the last 5 years that I'm able to bring jumping back into my life again after 8 years....

Thank you for my sons!!!

[blondeflyer7 0]

ok...people might take this wrong and think I'm wierd but here goes......I Thank god Clay still likes me

[rhino 0]

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In addition, read the Forum Rules. If I see another personal attack, you'll be banned from Talkback for awhile.

Well said Skymama.. Oops.. I'm suppose to be out of this thread.. lol

Rhino

Thank you God. I am about to get my son for a week straight and half the summer. And the little one could be born any day now.

God, please bless those that aren't saved anyways. I ask that you give them THEIR proof the same ways you have given me mine. I love you father. Thank you for this day, my health, the new job I am about to get, my beautiful wife, the roof over my head, my families health. I ask that you watch over my fellow skydivers and help them return to their loved ones jump after jump.

Amen

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[rhino 0]

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if thats what 'reality' is like i will gladly stand at the foot of his throne and tell him how arrogant, evil and unjust his system of salvation is,

It is all funny until you are burning in hell.. Oops.. Darnit.. Signing out again..

[Muenkel 0]

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God, please bless those that aren't saved anyways. I ask that you give them THEIR proof the same ways you have given me mine. I love you father. Thank you for this day, my health, the new job I am about to get, my beautiful wife, the roof over my head, my families health. I ask that you watch over my fellow skydivers and help them return to their loved ones jump after jump.

Amen

Can we eat now?

Chris

_________________________________________
Chris

[blondeflyer7 0]

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Can we eat now?

mmmmmm....got anything good

[Zenister 0]

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if thats what 'reality' is like i will gladly stand at the foot of his throne and tell him how arrogant, evil and unjust his system of salvation is,

It is all funny until you are burning in hell.. Oops.. Darnit.. Signing out again..

your focus creates your reality...if you end up in hell its because thats where you REALLY thought you deserved to be..

believe me when I say I wont be in your hell..your mythology is meaningless to me

btw: nice dress church lady..whens the last time you got laid?? ummm could it be by SATAN?

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[wildblue 4]

That's my biggest problem with religion in general - it creates massive number of hypocrites. People who claim to be "good Christians" but are breaking every commandment they can... but it's ok, God will forgive them.

it's like incest - you're substituting convenience for quality

[lurch 0]

Where DO you guys get the notion that anyone who doesn't buy the party line will be tortured eternally?
Rhino, most of the people I know and care about don't buy into your version of "serve him THIS way or burn in hell" which means by your standards they're all going to hell.
Screw heaven, I want to be where my friends are. If your heaven can only be accessed by people who believe as you do, your heaven will be a rather empty lonely place and the few who make it there will be people I would not want to spend eternity with. Heaven and hell are SUCH restricted ideas. If being "saved" involves agreeing to be THAT deliberately narrow minded and judgemental for ever after, I damn well hope it never happens to me. Rhino, I hope you outgrow that someday, and make it to the next level...where there's room for any belief that doesn't involve eternal torture and you're judged by your quality, not your dogma. All these people, of the highest possible quality, and according to this guy they're all getting tortured forever unless they alter their own minds to fit THAT silly blueprint.
Most of us have much wider horizons than that, my friend. Its the next level.

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[SpeedRacer 1]

I still say Salma Hayek's boobies are very compelling evidence, and even an atheist might want to take a good long look at them.

edited to add: No Zenister, you're not blind. My post with the link in it is my post above this one. Post number 138 in this thread.

Speed Racer
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[lurch 0]

(lurch looks....)
Oh my god.
Whoa. it works.

Live and learn... or die, and teach by example.

[Zenister 0]

i think you need to provide some scripture as proof

____________________________________
Those who fail to learn from the past are simply Doomed.

[SpeedRacer 1]

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i think you need to provide some scripture as proof

see my post above w/ the link to the video where Salma says that as a teenager she prayed to God for boobs.

Speed Racer
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