Anybody need a Cypres

[lippy 899]

First off, I don't mean this as advertising in the forums, so I hope nobody gets pissed off thinking that's what I'm trying to do.

My Cypres fired about a month ago. I was sure I was in the saddle (under reserve after a spinner) by 1500'. The good folks at Airtec, however, beg to differ. Anyways, my Cypres was made 12 years ago next March, which means it is good untill the end of next June, just about a year from now. For the $108 to get a new set of cutters, plus shipping up here I don't see it as being worth getting back in comission. If for some reason anybody here does see a benifit to this, you're more than welcome to it. It's an expert 1-pin. If you'd like it, PM me. I'd just hate to see it go to waste, and figure some newbie piecing together their first rig might be needing one cheap to get started.

I got nuthin

[Gawain 0]

While I don't want your Cypres, I will share with you that I intend on replacing mine when it reaches the end of its "life" (or before) with the Vigil frm Advance Aerospace Designs. Reading about it in June's Skydiving Mag, it appears to retain simple functionality, and it's maintenance free with 20 year life on the cutter. It has an IR port for in-the-field upgrades to the software. It appears to be a very attractive package of function and value. I intend to keep a close eye on it over the next 4-8 years.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[Remster 30]

I'd still ike to know what type of calculations the Vigil does... Is it simple speed and height measurement à la Astra, or is there more complex algorithms à la Cypres?

Remster

[TitaniumLegs 8]

Ditto. I have a CYPRES in for 4-year right now, and I will not likely buy another. I have the same thought to keep an eye on the Vigil as it gets some field usage and if they don't have any major problems, I'll be replacing CYPRESes with Vigils.

I think the most annoying things about CYPRES are the maintenance requirements. You have to replace the battery after 2 years, even if it reads 6400?!?
I'll grant that 4-year checks may have been a good idea at the start when they weren't sure how it would hold up after 4 years, but I'd like to see data proving that they're still necessary. If there is an upgrade or mod required, that can be done with a service bulletin, just like rigs or reserves.

I think the basic problem is that Germans don't like to admit they were wrong, even if it's a good thing that they were wrong. (Yes, I am qualified to judge - I spent 14 years there and speak the language fairly well.)

And to expire them after 12 years? Come on.

The "trade in program" is a joke.

I just love (not) how the new FARs make maintenance requirements on AADs law. The manufacturers did a good job of guaranteeing income with that little nugget! And people bitch about USPA trying to make money via federal legislation - at least they're a non-profit org!

(>o|-<

If you don't believe me, ask me.

[BBKid 0]

Also, how will it look on X-ray? I don't want you to have more problems than CYPRES users with those TSA buffoons!

Nick
---------------------------
"I've pierced my foot on a spike!!!"

[Gawain 0]

Quote

I'd still ike to know what type of calculations the Vigil does... Is it simple speed and height measurement à la Astra, or is there more complex algorithms à la Cypres?

I checked out their web-site www.vigil.aero and they note that it checks "...air pressure in rest every 23 minutes" Their FAQs are very thorough. Since you can change settings, it must use more complex algorithms. But again, since this is a new product, and I just had the four-year done on my Cypres, I have time to see this product evolve and make an informed decision then. But, it appears to have most of what I want, easy use, solid construction, low TCO, and thought out execution.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[CrazyIvan 0]

Click here

__________________________________________
Blue Skies and May the Force be with you.

[PhreeZone 19]

The Cypres cutter has an unlimited life span. Its the control unit that has a set life.

The issue you might find with the field upgrades on the vigil is that riggers may not be willing to do them if they have to purchace the hardware required to do them. If I was only going to see one unit a year or so I'd make the customer buy the hardware needed to interface with the unit. Big lofts might keep one on hand if the units become popular though. Its not a really maintence free item, you still have to do battery upgrades.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[TitaniumLegs 8]

It's an IR port. If I had to guess, and if they do their homework right, you'll be able to use the IR port built in to most laptops. My rigger can borrow mine. Hell, the owner could probably do it. Again, if they do it right, it will work in such a way that firmware updates aren't committed unless some kind of error detection passes, like maybe a checksum or signature code.

(>o|-<

If you don't believe me, ask me.

[Remster 30]

Quote

buy the hardware needed to interface with the unit

Keeping in mind, we are pnly working with a bit of marketing info the manuf. posted ontheir site, but my understanding was that the link was via a IR port, so any laptop could do (maybe there will be SW to purchase)

Remster

[chachi 0]

I like Cypress, and I know nothing about Vigil, I just thought I would pass out this little nugget of information. Lets say you take five years off jumping right when you were supposed to send your unit in for the 4 year check and then come back. THey will charge you to do the 4 year and the 8 year and a new set of batteries. How's that for a gouge. This is happening to a guy at our dz, then the cypress only has 4 years left to boot. Nice piece or rip off.

~Chachi

[SkydiveMonkey 0]

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The Cypres cutter has an unlimited life span

I think it's 12 years, just like unit.

____________________
Say no to subliminal messages

[TitaniumLegs 8]

Quote

Quote

The Cypres cutter has an unlimited life span

I think it's 12 years, just like unit.

Yeah, but are they date stamped? In other words, how does anybody know?

(>o|-<

If you don't believe me, ask me.

[Gawain 0]

Yes, you still have to replace the battery. But you won't likely have to send it to Ohio or Belgium to get it done.

It's form factor appears to be such that if I buy the battery, and give it to my rigger, he'll be able to perform the work (assuming I don't have my rigger's ticket in four years, which is a personal goal).

The manufacturer points out, that no special consideration is required in replacing the battery (local regs would apply of course).

So, Cypres: $1000 purchase; $70 battery every two years; $200 check every four years; toss after 12 years - Total expense (12 yrs): approx $1610. New unit required for purchase $1000; $70 battery/$200 check; toss after 12 more years - Total expense: $1610, pro-rate to 20 total years: $1340. 20 year TCO: $2950

Vigil: $990 purchase; $70 battery every four years (or 700 jumps apprx); cutter replaced after 20 years - Total expense/12 yrs: approx $1130; 20 yrs: $1270.

That's assuming no saves. AAD will replace the cutter for free with a save.

I'm not going to run out and buy one now (though I may still see if they are seeking beta testers) but the promise of their use of technology, makes a compelling argument, even against the Cypres II.

Moore's Law applies to all types of technology. Once it's developed, it gets less and less expensive to buy and use.

Time and use will tell. I've got my bookmarks set.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[PhreeZone 19]

If you want to compare apples to apples look at the Cypres2 vs the Vigil. The Cypres2 eliminates the 2 year battery replacement issue, it still requires the factory inspection but only at 4 years. Currently your comparing a 12 year old product to something new (aka FXC 12000 ve Cypres arguement)

Your rigger can replace the battery at the 2 year now. Call up SSK and order one or talk to any loft. I just did mine last year.

How many people will jump an original Mirage (not a G2 or G3) right now? That is only 15 years old. The average jumper only jumps for about 3-4 years and has a couple of hundred jumps before they leave the sport. Not too many people actually jump enough and long enough to touch the 12 year cycle let alone a 20 year cycle.

Protracks use IR ports to communicate too but you can't just hook a laptop up to one and go, you need the special interface that can decode the protack data. I know my rigger hates computers and would'nt be caught dead with a laptop. Here is what is said about the IR unit and software:

Quote

Is annual rigger check necessary?
I thought the functionality do not have to be checked by riggers? So why should the riggers buy this module and software? The rigger can buy an IR bi-directional communications module and associated software. This costs 521 EUR.

We advise to do an annual check

They also want pressure chamber checks and reports generated after yearly tests.

Basically it sounds like they want to put the pressure on the rigger to make sure things are 100% all the time instead of doing the tests at the factory.

Riggers can only do certian levels of field maintence unless they have special equipment (Raven recall) or are able to get the factory to send them exact instructions on the work that needs to be proformed.

So, Cypres: $1000 purchase; $70 battery every two years; $200 check every four years; toss after 12 years - Total expense (12 yrs): approx $1610. New unit required for purchase (Cypres2) $1000; $200 check; toss after 12 more years - Total expense: $1400, pro-rate to 20 total years (8 additional): $933. 20 year TCO(Cypres2): $2333

Vigil: $990 purchase; $70 battery every four years (or 700 jumps apprx); cutter replaced after 20 years - Total expense/12 yrs: approx $1130; 20 yrs: $1270.

What is the cost of replacement cutter if its not a lifesaving use? Double out and stuff? Also the ease of getting a Cypres cutter makes it so I can be in the air again in an hour or 2 max at most DZ's with a decent loft.

Yesterday is history
And tomorrow is a mystery

Parachutemanuals.com

[Gawain 0]

Quote

How many people will jump an original Mirage (not a G2 or G3) right now? That is only 15 years old. The average jumper only jumps for about 3-4 years and has a couple of hundred jumps before they leave the sport. Not too many people actually jump enough and long enough to touch the 12 year cycle let alone a 20 year cycle.

Good points. I can't think that far ahead though. I jump a Javelin J-2 that's 11 years old and is in such good condition if/when I sell it, it will attract a good price.

My point with the Cypres versus the Vigil is simply about cost of maintenance and ownership at this point. As AAD has a fresh slate to work with, I suspect the next few years will be very interesting, and (I hope) competitive. I've worked in various technology sectors for 10 years and believe that Airtec's maintenance requirements versus technology available infringe on its marketability, in light of other companies that can develop similar products with a more progressive plan.

So I try and I scream and I beg and I sigh
Just to prove I'm alive, and it's alright
'Cause tonight there's a way I'll make light of my treacherous life
Make light!

[lummy 4]

Quote

I just love (not) how the new FARs make maintenance requirements on AADs law. The manufacturers did a good job of guaranteeing income with that little nugget! And people bitch about USPA trying to make money via federal legislation - at least they're a non-profit org!

Why is it any different than a mandatory sevice bulletin, such as the Raven bar tacks? We as the owner of said equipment had to pay to get that done or not jump. Would you fly in an airplane that did not have the regular maintenance done as scheduled (WITHOUT YOU RIG)??

Point is, you could ALWAYS have your rigger pull out the AAD instead of paying for the maintenance.

I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. I promise not to TP Davis under canopy.. eat sushi, get smoochieTTK#1

[betzilla 56]

Quote

The issue you might find with the field upgrades on the vigil is that riggers may not be willing to do them if they have to purchace the hardware required to do them. If I was only going to see one unit a year or so I'd make the customer buy the hardware needed to interface with the unit. Big lofts might keep one on hand if the units become popular though. Its not a really maintence free item, you still have to do battery upgrades.

From what I understand, dealers will have those interface things. SO if your rigger won't so it, you can send it to the dealer for whatever you need. We're thinking about becoming a dealer at my store. It sounds like a pretty good piece of equipment, (I just sold my Cypres to somebody who couldn't afford $1225 for a new Cypres II, and may replace it with Vigil when they become available) but as with anything, it will take use in the field to get real data on the Vigil. In the meantime, it's just a question of people deciding to take on a new AAD, and the risk involved with that.

[rjf98 0]

Has anyone actually gotten a reply from the company? I've sent 2 e-mails to them and haven't heard from them yet. I know it's only been 24 hours, but come on, I'm an American and I like to be talked to right away. If this is any indication of their customer service I'm buying a cypress. Problem is I'm all for competition and want to buy the Vigil.