aeroflyer 0 #1 October 21, 2011 Hi all, I've been having a problem with burns on the top of my canopy, which seem to be caused by the kill-line. I have a wings container, and the kill line and bridle are separate inside the D-bag, so I think canopy is getting trapped in there and pulled out rapidly on deployment. I've seen some containers that have a completely enclosed kill-line inside the D-bag which I think would solve this problem, is there any way to adapt my setup or other steps I can take to prevent burns? I've tried clearing the canopy out between the kill-line and bridle each jump, but it doesn't seem to make a big difference. Is this a common problem on these type of kill lines? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
angle228 0 #2 October 21, 2011 try cocking the pilot chute before you put the canopy in the bad. Its a little tougher to pack buy then you know you wont get your canopy caught up in the kill line. I know a guy who cocked his PC after putting the canopy in the bag and one time the canopy got caught up in the kill line as he cocked it and it ripped a small hole in the canopy.I am fucking your mom right now Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
BrianM 1 #3 October 21, 2011 Quotetry cocking the pilot chute before you put the canopy in the bad. I was going to say the same thing. An additional benefit is you get an extra chance at catching an uncocked PC. If I forget to cock it, I notice as soon as I start bagging the canopy because the bridle/kill line looks different than normal. I don't even need to remember to check, it's very obvious."It's amazing what you can learn while you're not talking." - Skydivesg Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
riggerrob 558 #4 October 22, 2011 Agreed! I ususally cock my kill-line early in the packing process and tie a knot in the bridle to prevent the kill-line from retracting. Then I cock it a second time after closing the d-bag. Finally, I jerk the pilot-chute ... to see if it inflates. Smart men check critical items two or three times during a pack job. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dpreguy 14 #5 October 23, 2011 If you go to the one that is "completely enclosed' you must be very very vigilant. As you cock the pilot chute, it wrinkles the part of the bridle inside the bag. So far so good. Good in theory. But...those wrinkles have an obvious tendency to straighten, which reverses the cocking you just put into it...leaving you to be (a bit o' humor here) half cocked. You must be sooo...vigiliant to prevent this. I know of a cutaway because of this. Pilot chute was not sufficiently inflated, as the kill line was half extracted. I watched him pack the next pack job and he could not keep it cocked, as the bridle was new, and stiff. Those wrinkles would not stay wrinkled. In fact, they were more like a spring. He switched. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aeroflyer 0 #6 October 25, 2011 That's very interesting, I never thought about the bridle acting as a spring like that. I usually cock the pc before bagging the canopy, so I guess I'm doing everything right. Is there any trick to making sure no canopy gets in there, besides cocking before you bag it? Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
theonlyski 3 #7 October 25, 2011 You can jam your hand in the bag after the canopy is in the bag, and clear the bridle/kill line. I generally cock the PC twice, once before bagging, and once after bagging. Ofcourse, I've got the Vector bridle and it doesnt have a free kill line to run around canopy parts."I may be a dirty pirate hooker...but I'm not about to go stand on the corner." iluvtofly DPH -7, TDS 578, Muff 5153, SCR 14890 I'm an asshole, and I approve this message Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
matthewcline 0 #8 October 25, 2011 QuoteThat's very interesting, I never thought about the bridle acting as a spring like that. I usually cock the pc before bagging the canopy, so I guess I'm doing everything right. Is there any trick to making sure no canopy gets in there, besides cocking before you bag it? Cock it before you bag it and put a micro band on the rapid link, then slow the excess tape in the band, it will help to keep fabric out of danger. MattAn Instructors first concern is student safety. So, start being safe, first!!! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
bodypilot90 0 #9 October 25, 2011 You are the 2ed person with a wings container I have heard having that trouble. Wonder if they are more problematic than others Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
mircan 0 #10 October 25, 2011 Quote Cock it before you bag it and put a micro band on the rapid link, then slow the excess tape in the band, it will help to keep fabric out of danger. Matt +1 I do that. Works like charm.dudeist skydiver #42 Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #11 October 25, 2011 Quote slow [stow?] the excess tape in the band, it will help to keep fabric out of danger. But isn't it the kill-line that is staged to cause the damage after it has captured the fabric during final cocking? I'm trying to visualize how stowing the tape would help if it never changes its length inside the bag and is only under slight tension as the bag is stripped during deployment. Maybe I'm just not understanding the explanation. Can you elaborate? As for the OP, most of the damage I've seen is caused by a too-short kill line that pinches the fabric against the bag grommet during bagged-canopy cocking, setting the stage for damage during bag strip. I trim all my PCs to have 2-3" of slack in the bottom of the bag after cocking to avoid this. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #12 October 26, 2011 OK, I get it now. It sounds like a way of keeping the PC cocked by securing the bridle attachment point and holding it close to the grommet so it can't tug on the kill-line during bagging--an alternative to temporarily tying a knot in the bridle. I find these steps unnecessary if the kill-line is adequately long, but this varies by mfr and with wear. So if in doubt, pre-cocking is indeed a good idea when followed-up with any method of securing the PC to stay cocked during bagging. In case anyone is interested, here are photos of: (1) Cock and check--good slack here with little risk of pinching fabric. (2) Cock and check--short kill line that can easily pinch fabric and cause damage unless securely pre-cocked. Notice how kill line disappears into bridle. (3) Neatly dressing the tape and kill-line before bagging. With adequate kill-line length, I just bag my canopy and cock afterwards. But when packing for others, I always pre-cock. Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
aeroflyer 0 #13 October 26, 2011 Ok, I think I understand now. My guess is that even though I'm pre-cocking it, after I bag the canopy I usually cock it again, and that's when the material probably gets pinched. Using a rubber band on the canopy's quick link to gather up the excess bridle beside the kill line might help, I will see what my rigger says and probably try that. I also think that my kill line is a lot shorter than what I have seen in those pictures, probably closer to the first one (too short)... I have a spare PC I can try. The burns on my canopy definitely look kill-line sized not bridle sized. Thanks all for the info! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
captain_stan 0 #14 October 27, 2011 I can only guess what your rigger charges, but I replace kill-lines cheaper than I patch canopies. Such a PC repair might be a good investment if needed. Also be sure and check the kill line length on that "extra" PC if you're gonna swap those out. Good luck! Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
dpreguy 14 #15 October 27, 2011 aeroflyer I am only referring to the "wrinkle bridle" where the kill line that is inside the part of the bridle that is in the bag. Uh... maybe about 10 inches of it. When you cock the PC, this lower part of the bridle, you produce wrinkles. These wrinkles are put in by compressing the lower part of the bridle by pulling the kill line on the inside of it. Once compressed, it wants to pull out again, especailly when the "wrinkle bridle" is new. The original poster was thinking of going to this type. (Not the type shown in the pictures.) I was trying to warn him of the necessity of keeping the wrinkles from 'unwrinkling' for want of a better term. If any part of it unwrinkles, it starts to collapse the PC, as it was designed to do. The problem is that it does this when you are packing, and it is difficult to confirm it hasn't. I much prefer the kind in the pictures, as once it is cocked, there is no inherent force wroking against the packer to uncock it. With the wrinkle bridle, a little jostling or even just sitting there watching it w/o touching it, the wrinkles trry to unwrinkle. The guy I switched out was having gear fear from worrrying about having another mostly uncocked pilot chute fail to inflate fully, resulting another PC in tow=another reserve deployment. (I don't remember if a Wings supplies that type of bridle). Of course tying a knot just above the bag, or figuring out some way to pinch it and hold it would work, but when the jumper is in a hurry, or gives it to a packer...ithose compressed wrinkles push out and sneaks to a half cocked configuration without the packer knowing it. Hope this helps Quote Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
