when to buy first rig

[dthames 0]

I am new but plan to buy a used rig as soon as it is appropriate to use my own. A 190 would give me 1.0 wing loading and I would expect I could be happy with that for a good long while. Would a student out of AFF + a few jumps be allowed to use his/her own rig? I looked at SIM 2.1 section K and it is not clear to me what the rule would be.

Any help?

Thanks,
Dan

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I am new but plan to buy a used rig as soon as it is appropriate to use my own. A 190 would give me 1.0 wing loading and I would expect I could be happy with that for a good long while. Would a student out of AFF + a few jumps be allowed to use his/her own rig?

Probably although

1) Your drop zone is free to impose whatever requirements it wants.

2) As far as the USPA is concerned you'd be required to have an AAD and be jumping main and reserve canopies "suitable for students" which seems open to interpretation.

[Austintxflight 0]

I'm curious as to why you feel you need your own rig right now? I'm just getting off student status and for me, it feels like I still have no real first hand knowledge of rigs, anything I choose is either based on someones elses experience or the 2 or 3 rigs i've jumped 4 or 5 times each making my decision on.

I really wanted my own rig early on, but the more I was involved the more options I felt I had. I decided to buy things that I could make more informed decisions on, Alti,goggles, helmet, etc. I decided I'm not gonna go rig shopping until I get to closer to 100 jumps and have better first hand information from my own experience jumping different canopies containers etc.

But thats just how i am going to do it, i'm sure there is no wrong answer (unless you decide to get a katana 89)

[dthames 0]

I really wanted my own rig early on, but the more I was involved the more options I felt I had. I decided to buy things that I could make more informed decisions on, Alti,goggles, helmet, etc. I decided I'm not gonna go rig shopping until I get to closer to 100 jumps and have better first hand information from my own experience jumping different canopies containers etc.


I may decide that as well. I was just thinking about it and wondered if there were specific restrictions that came into play. I would rather put my rental money into paying for something that is mine. That is just me, but I know I don't know enough to make a good call now.

Thanks for the replies.

Dan

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[davelepka 4]

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I decided I'm not gonna go rig shopping until I get to closer to 100 jumps

Most of the time, this is a big waste of time and money. Jumping only rental gear or whatever you can borrow is going to limit the availability and variety of gear you'll have access to.

The idea is to buy a used 'beginner' rig. It's like a car, where you could buy a 16 year old kid a brand new Mustang, but it's probably not the best idea. What you do is buy the kid a 10 year old Civic that get's him where he needs to be, and costs 1/10 what the Mustang costs. Once the kid 'grows up' a little, then he can step up to a newer, more expensive ride.

So put together a used rig for yourself, and shoot for the $2500-$3000 range. You want a rig that will hold the canopies you're able to jump at the time of purchase, with room to move down a size or two. This was you can demo other canopies, including smaller ones, in your own rig. After a year or so, and 100 jumps, you should be able to sell the rig for just about what you paid for it. The price difference between a rig with 700 jumps on it, and 800 jumps is almost zero.

Compare that to the cost of renting gear for 100 jumps, which is going to run you $1500 - $2000, all out of pocket, never to be seen again. Not to mention the benefits of owning, packing, and maintaining your own gear, you'll jump and learn more with your own gear.

A note on AADs - if you want one, just buy one. A Cypres2 will work in any rig you buy, and if you want to own an AAD, just buy one and plan to move it from rig to rig for the next 12 years. Also, just buy a Cypres2 and be done with it, you're not going save anything buying a different brand.

[ILUVCHUTERS 1]

This is exactly what I did, and it was a good decision. Bought my first used rig for 1200, and a brand new cypres. A year and a half later, ordered my own new rig, transferred the cypres, and I'm now good to go for years and years. Sold the first rig to another newbie, who has since then sold it to another, all for around the same price I originally paid for it.

Although I didn't downsize very much (first rig was a 195, current one is a 168, no plans to downsize for a few years, and then only to a 148 which will fit into my rig quite nicely), so that may be a factor too.

[dthames 0]

Thanks. That all sounds like good advice.

But I am still on the question of "As a student when would your own rig become an option". I guess it would largely come down to what your instructors felt you are safe with and if the rig meets the requirements of the SIM. I will get my money ready and see how it all plays out.

Dan

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[DrewEckhardt 0]

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I'm curious as to why you feel you need your own rig right now? I'm just getting off student status and for me, it feels like I still have no real first hand knowledge of rigs, anything I choose is either based on someones elses experience or the 2 or 3 rigs i've jumped 4 or 5 times each making my decision on.

I had my own gear as of jump #13 and would have come out ahead financially over making the same number of jumps renting if I threw it in the dumpster after four months although if I was renting I probably wouldn't have made the same number of jumps since AFF students had priority over rig renters. In the end I sold the parts (first the main and then container + reserve) for close to what I paid so I did a lot better than that.

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I really wanted my own rig early on, but the more I was involved the more options I felt I had. I decided to buy things that I could make more informed decisions on, Alti,goggles, helmet, etc. I decided I'm not gonna go rig shopping until I get to closer to 100 jumps and have better first hand information from my own experience jumping different canopies containers etc.

Rigs are commodities. Most of them built in the last fifteen years are going to be safe for whatever sort of skydiving you do. Any of them built for your size body and canopies are going to be comfortable.

There are differences in canopies although you're not going to hurt your skydiving career my making the next eighty on an arbitrarily selected modern example (Sabre 2, Spectre, Storm, Safire, etc.). You'll even do fine under a rectangular canopy (Sabre/Monarch/Turbo ZX) although the openings are nicer under more modern designs.

[Divinfool 0]

We got a great deal at my DZ..... any cost of rental gear for the first 30 days after AFF graduation can be put toward the purchase of new or used gear at the gear store. Once you put $ down on a rig, you never pay for rentals as long as you keep putting $$ into the plan (and you got like 6 months to pay it off). I got a great deal on a new 2010 Mirage container that will hold a 130-170 main. I have progressed to a 190, but I plan to keep jumping on rental gear until I get to a 150, then buy a new or nice used 150.....I can still use the container later if I decide to go to a 130. Seemed to be the most logical way to purchase.

Fear is the thief of dreams.....

[davelepka 4]

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But I am still on the question of "As a student when would your own rig become an option".

You want to use the school rigs to work you way toward a 1 to 1 WL. Proggress down one size at a time until you are comfortable with each size, then move on. When dealing with downsizes below 1 to 1, like going from .7 to 1 down to a .8 to 1, the changes are fairly suttle, and you can generally get used to the 'smaller' canopy in 4 or 5 jumps. Just keep moving toward 1 to 1, and make sure your instructors approve each step.

You can get to 1 to 1 on the student gear, or you can get to .8 or .9 to 1 on the student gear, and then move to 1 to 1 on your own rig. Keep in mind that if you're a student, the DZ will require you to jump an AAD and an RSL. Both are very good ideas, but are optional once you have a license, so if you plan to go without either one, plan on getting a license before you get a rig.

Just a quick note, in case you didn't know. Wing Loading, or WL, is the ratio of your weight to the size of the wing. The weight used is your exit weight, which is you and all your clothes and gear, more or less, how you exit the plane. If you're 185 lbs, and have 25 lbs of equipment and clothes, your exit weight is 210 lbs. (25 lbs for gear is a good number to use in calculating your actual exit weight.

Take your exit weight, and divide it by the canopy size, and you get the WL. So 210 lbs divided by 210 sq ft equals 1 to 1. If you were jumping a 220, it would be 210 divided by 220, for a WL of .95 to 1.

It does get more complicated if you're extra light or extra heavy, say, under 150 lbs or over 220 lbs body weight, but if you're inbetween there, the numbers above are a good starting point. Figure out your WL for your previous jumps, and keep track of it as you try different rigs the school has to offer. Above all else, always consult with an instructor before making changes with regards to the gear you are jumping.

[dthames 0]

I keep my weight under 170 (but normally over 165). So for WL 1.0 I am shooting for a 190 main.

From all of the advice on this thread I think I would like to work toward a 190 on school gear and be shoping for a rig to switch to as soon as I can safely fly/land it. I do want my own rig to have an AAD, for sure.

Thanks,
Dan

Instructor quote, “What's weird is that you're older than my dad!”

[scottd818 0]

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But I am still on the question of "As a student when would your own rig become an option".

It does get more complicated if you're extra light or extra heavy, say, under 150 lbs or over 220 lbs body weight, but if you're inbetween there, the numbers above are a good starting point. Figure out your WL for your previous jumps, and keep track of it as you try different rigs the school has to offer. Above all else, always consult with an instructor before making changes with regards to the gear you are jumping.

im 6' 2" and 250 where would i start

[davelepka 4]

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im 6' 2" and 250 where would i start

For a variety of reasons, provided that your skills are average and your weight is the result of being 'athletic' and not 'constantly eating pie', bigger people can load canopies a touch higher than lighter people of the same skill/experience.

What that means is that if you have an exit weight of 275/280, in order for you to stay right at 1 to 1, you would have to be jumping a 280, which is big for a non-student. A better choice would be a 240 or 230, and even though it would be above the 'normally' suggested WL of 1 to 1 for a newbie, the size of the canopy itself degrades the performance somewhat, so the end result is acceptable.

Likewise, very light people need to go the other way. A 115 lb jumper would have an exit weight of 135 lbs, but they should not be jumping a 135 sq ft canopy in their first rig. Even though the WL is 1 to 1, the small size of the canopy increases the performance, and it becomes unacceptable for a new jumper.

Regardless of your size, you should always be conservative when downsizing canopies. Make sure you are 'good' on the one you are currently jumping, and that means a chain of several jumps in a row where you can demonstrate control and consistancy in your landing patterns, accuracy, and flare. Even then, get a briefing from an instructor before jumping a smaller canopy for the first time.

[spikes2020 0]

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I am new but plan to buy a used rig as soon as it is appropriate to use my own. A 190 would give me 1.0 wing loading and I would expect I could be happy with that for a good long while. Would a student out of AFF + a few jumps be allowed to use his/her own rig? I looked at SIM 2.1 section K and it is not clear to me what the rule would be.

Any help?

Thanks,
Dan

I am in the same situation, i am a AFF student with 17 jumps i got my own rig on jump number 10 and started packing my own rig on jump 13 (the scariest jump of my life so far). I got a spectre 170 main in a vector 3 rig. Its loaded about 1.1 and i have been loving it. I think it all depends on your drop zone.

I was really lucky and found a guy leaving the sport that was my same size just a bit heaver. It was the right price and so i couldnt just pass it up =)

PS the spectre is so awesome, super slow openings and always head on! even with my noob skills packing!

I know i have very limited experience so take it with a grain of salt.

edit: here is a 190 spectre and rig for sale, make sure what ever rig you get fits you like a glove.

http://www.chutingstar.com/usedgear_en/reflex-spectre-190-pdr176-expired-cypres.html

Cheers

Jon W